Who Agrees Fourth Wave Feminism is Toxic Femininity And Should Be Abolished?

[Jolly_Penguin]

As for Luke. He had actual training, and the first time he fought Darth Vader, he lost the fight, got his hand sliced off and got thrown down a shaft, lucky to survive. The first time Rey fought Kylo Ren, which was the first time she fought any Darkside user of the force if I recall correctly.... She won.

What exactly is Rey's growth and character arc? She starts perfect. Then what? How do you make her interesting over three movies? The only way to make a character like hers interesting, male or female, would be if she turned and became the villain. But they can't do that and remain woke, now can they?

Here's to hoping they realize that their last film did serious damage to the franchise, and actually invest in a good script instead of pushing politics.

 

[another1]

So no females probably do feel pride that they are finally being equally represented in these fantasy pics.

Are they really being equally represented if the original plots are mutilated to give way to people that have no female agendas in mind, only popularity and profit? Are things really equal if you have to have to totally rearrange things to make them appear equal? My original point was that this cinematic gender swapping is NOT helping any feminist cause, fromderinside. Shallow Hal was pretty good but it didn't enlighten me any more than the gender swapping franchise does

it starts with ideas and imagination being expressed in popular culture.

Yes Arctish that's where the brainwashing starts nowadays

Sylvia Van Buren acted mostly an assistant to Dr. Forrester, but the fact the movie depicted an intelligent, college educated women doing important things and not simply swooning at the sight of danger was progress.

Today's Sylvia Van Buren is a shape shifting transvestite basilisk with a dayglow Mountain Dew tattoo on her tits. Because they're woke. And because money. Mostly because money

Maybe someday, someone will make a War of the Worlds movie where Dr. Forrester is a woman and the main male character is her assistant

I do not doubt that.

Probably a lot of guys will gripe about how the story has been 'ruined', even if it's better than the Spielberg version.

If something is perfect already, why fuck with it? That will be one complaint when this happens. Mutilating a beautiful a story is, by definition, ruining it. Calling it a triumph for women is an ignorant cop out. A soon to be tacky fad. We're already yawning at the shit. Don't tell me women are so hard up for wins that they'll gobble this stuff up without question.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

It's only the movies. The Bottom dollars is, does it make money? Really, some of you need to get a life. The strangulated bleating of the triggered men over this "issue" is embarressing.

 

[Arctish]

As for Luke. He had actual training, and the first time he fought Darth Vader, he lost the fight, got his hand sliced off and got thrown down a shaft, lucky to survive.

The first time Luke fought Darth Vader, Vader was in a special TIE fighter and had two wingmen, all of them after a noob in a slower, less maneuverable X-wing. And yet, that noob was able to dodge and weave long enough for back up to drive Vader off and allow him to Save the Day by making the Impossible Shot because the Force was strong in him.

The first time Rey fought Kylo Ren, which was the first time she fought any Darkside user of the force if I recall correctly.... She won.

Sounds about right. The Force is strong in her, too. And she grew up having to fight off some nasty sorts who'd have raped, killed, or enslaved her if she couldn't defend herself. It's not like she grew up on a quiet little farm.

What exactly is Rey's growth and character arc? She starts perfect. Then what? How do you make her interesting over three movies? The only way to make a character like hers interesring, male or female, would be if she turned and became the villain. But they can't do that and remain woke, now can they?

Here's to hoping they realize that their last film did serious damage to the franchise, and actually invest in a good script instead of pushing politics.

All Star Wars movies are light on character development. The fun is in the action, not the plot twists. You're criticizing Rey for being unrealistically competent while giving a pass to the unrealistically competent Luke, and ignoring Anakin, who's so ridiculously competent as an 8 year old. he could be an Ayn Rand hero.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Anakin was interesting because he fell to the dark side. A villain starting out as a too perfect hero can make for a good story. Rey could be made intereresting the same way, but it seems unlikely they would allow such a character turn for her, as that wouldn't keep with the politics they are pushing.

 

[fromderinside]

Anything is possible if the FORCE IS IN YOU


So no females probably do feel pride that they are finally being equally represented in these fantasy pics.

Maybe you should go back and see Shallow Hal! You might figure it out.

Here's what I predicted above. Criticize Rey being a total Mary Sue, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize the new Ghostbusters as lacking pacing and good funny jokes, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize Captain Marvel, get told off by Bree Larson herself, that this film wasn't made for you (that's a great way to win over fans for sure). Make any crappy movie, and buy some insurance by making the lead role female, and then you can cry misogynist if anyone criticizes your mess.

As I also said above, this does not empower women. Women deserve better than to be pandered to and used as an insurance policy against criticism for a crap product.

Game of thrones shows women with actual character arcs. Wonder Woman had a powerful woman with some personal challenges and growth. Sarah Connor from Terminator series and Ellen Ripley from Aliens were both relatable female characters who overcame adversity and grew through character arcs. Jessica Jones, Supergirl, Princess Leah from the original Star Wars, Marvel's Black Widow, hell even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena Warrior Princess all could stand on their own, not having to and hide behind their skirts to deflect criticism. We need more of that and less of this woke insurance pandering.

And to say that women have to work twice as hard to get half as much, sure isn't a message anyone is going to get from watching a total Mary Sue like Rey. She hardly has to break a sweat to master anything and everything.

I don't give a damn about crap products. SW were crap products in performance and character portrayal. So What. They were good entertainment which is completely different from good product.

If one wants to critique a product as a social instrument one find a should instrument to critique. The appropriate level of critique for these entertainment movies is are they effectively entertaining the entertainment population. There is nothing here beyond substituting women for men in dominant roles.

Did the movies succeed in doing that as entertainment. Personally I don't know since I haven't seen the recent stuff. However it appears by the conversation that, as I wrote above, the main entertainment element changed was sex of dominant roles. Was the movie entertaining?

 

[ruby sparks]

Supergirl first appeared in Action Comics #252 in 1959. Batgirl 1961.

All that does is show how far back the toxic religion of fourth wave feminist wokeness actually goes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Its almost like a new Hollywood woke insurance policy. If your film sucks, don't worry. Just make the lead character a transgender black lady in a wheelchair, and shoot those critics down. They are all just bigots.

Rather like my opinion of R-rated movies. I consider R to stand for "Rotten". Just about every R-rated movie I've seen used the R-rated elements in place of being a good movie.

Joker is R rated and just became the highest grossing R rated film, beating Deadpool. Both are excellent. Gran Torino, The Departed, The Exorcist, Get Out, Pulp Fiction, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now. The list goes on and on of great R rated movies. I wonder just what the hell you watch.

SMDH

Note that I said "just about".

And I didn't like Deadpool.

 

[Arctish]

Anakin was interesting because he fell to the dark side. A villain starting out as a too perfect hero can make for a good story. Rey could be made intereresting the same way, but it seems unlikely they would allow such a character turn for her, as that wouldn't keep with the politics they are pushing.

Rey could have a very interesting character arc if she succeeds where Anakin and Luke failed. I think that's where the story is going. Luke destroyed all the ancient Jedi lore books, so she'll have to find her own path. And that whole 'bring balance to the Force' could mean establishing equality and balance between herself and Kylo Ren, like the interplay of Yin and Yang.

Anyway, the point is that Rey is a Star Wars character,. not a GoT character. She should be judged against the other two trilogy leads, Luke and Anakin. Her competence might challenge credulity but theirs is even more unrealistic. And she's not just a gender swapped Skywalker. She's a different character with a different backstory.

ETA:

Here's what I predicted above. Criticize Rey being a total Mary Sue, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize the new Ghostbusters as lacking pacing and good funny jokes, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize Captain Marvel, get told off by Bree Larson herself, that this film wasn't made for you (that's a great way to win over fans for sure). Make any crappy movie, and buy some insurance by making the lead role female, and then you can cry misogynist if anyone criticizes your mess

Criticize Rey for being too good while ignoring that Luke is much too good, and Anakin is very much too good, and it looks like the hero being too good isn't the problem.

Criticize the new Ghostbusters as lacking pacing and good funny jokes in a way that doesn't mention pacing or the quality of the writing, and it will look like you don't think the director and the writers were the problem.

Criticize Captain Marvel before the movie is out in theaters and get told off by Bree Larson herself saying that if you're having conniptions over a Marvel movie with a female superhero lead, this film wasn't made for you because no one wants to damage your pretty snow crystals and you're better off staying in your safe space.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Luke was a farm boy living so far out in the sticks they didn't even have sticks. He got one brief lesson in what the Force is and how it is used by the Jedi, and within a minute or so we see him using a light saber to deflect laser shots while blindfolded. He had no experience with Imperial space cruisers but that didn't stop him from carrying out a successful rescue on one, winning a firefight with Imperial Stormtroopers, and shooting down trained Tie fighter pilots. And then, despite having zero training or experience piloting a fighter himself, he was given an X-wing and went on to dodge the repeated attacks of a Sith Lord, channel the Force, make the Impossible Shot, and Save the Day.

But you think the character of Rey, who grew up scavenging and fighting off other scavengers, is unrealistic because she figured out how to use a light saber without the 1 minute of instruction Luke got? Or was it the Jedi Mind Trick that was just so much less believable than Luke dodging Darth Vader's attacks before Obi Wan told him to Use the

Comparing Star Wars 1977 to The Force awakens is like comparing Carey Grant to fucking Owen Wilson. As for contrasting Luke and Rey, Luke was taught by Obi and Yoda, plus he had time to train on his own. Rey picks up a sword and humiliates one of the galaxy's most feared men. Because girl power. Because someone wants you confused. I'm not denying that the force can help us do wonderful things but it takes time and practice. Like I've been saying all along, actual progress is going to take more time. Do females really get a feeling of pride when they see all this shit happening in entertainment? I'd be ashamed

Rey hadn't used lightsabers but she had experience with hand to hand combat with weapons. Luke only had firearms experience. Rey couldn't have made the Death Star shot--that was mostly due to Luke's experience on Tatoonie. Remember, he considered the target not to be harder than stuff he shot back home. Now, I think he would have missed anyway because he was used to shooting a gun rather than a torpedo off an x-wing, but the writers don't seem to have considered that extreme skill with one weapon doesn't mean you'll be that good with other weapons that only bear a superficial resemblance.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Access to the Force doesn't take time or practice, it takes inborn ability. And learning to use it is apparently pretty easy if you can hear what your midi-chlorians are telling you. Luke, Rey, and that little kid have the ability. Anakin had so much of it he was ridiculously competent-in-all-things until it was 'cute' for him to shoot up a battleship by accident. He could beat adult pod-racers with way more experience, even those who were cheating, because he used the Force instinctively.

By accident? I always interpreted that as the force telling him to hit that target.

 

[ruby sparks]

Her competence might challenge credulity but theirs is even more unrealistic.

Personally, I have always felt ashamed for my gender when a male character in a film has possessed an inherent and/or unrealistic knack for competence, especially if he's white. And let me tell you, it has happened a LOT, for most of my life in fact. another1 has hit the nail on the head. Or something.

 

[laughing dog]

It's only the movies. The Bottom dollars is, does it make money? Really, some of you need to get a life. The strangulated bleating of the triggered men over this "issue" is embarressing.

It really is. Star Wars are action flicks with little character development. Criticizing Rey's character while giving a pass to Anakin is incredibly telling, especially given that Daisy Ridley's performance was Oscar-worthy compared to boring Hayden Christensen's wooden portrayal of a young Anakin.

 

[Jarhyn]

It's only the movies. The Bottom dollars is, does it make money? Really, some of you need to get a life. The strangulated bleating of the triggered men over this "issue" is embarressing.

It really is. Star Wars are action flicks with little character development. Criticizing Rey's character while giving a pass to Anakin is incredibly telling, especially given that Daisy Ridley's performance was Oscar-worthy compared to boring Hayden Christensen's wooden portrayal of a young Anakin.

Personally, I dislike the pacing of the film more than anything.

The plot of The Force Awakens was sufficient for an entire trilogy in itself, and should have been.

Save the Storm trooper/develop Rey = 1, Find Luke, get training/develop Darth Emo+kill Laia (not Han, why did they kill Han?)/reveal Darth Binks = 2, develop Rey+Emo/infiltrate planet/redeem Emo/kill Darth Binks->win = 3

 

[ruby sparks]

It's only the movies. The Bottom dollars is, does it make money? Really, some of you need to get a life. The strangulated bleating of the triggered men over this "issue" is embarressing.

I would have agreed with you, but, some very useful points have been made, not least the concerns raised on behalf of women, and them potentially feeling shamed by poor casting and scripts and roles for women in recent times. Speaking for myself, I might suggest that one solution to this...predicament....would be to go back to the days when women didn't get any roles at all, or if that's too radical then just as far back and when they had fewer, lesser, and more passive roles. With much less dialogue. Because if the current bout of brainwashing continues, the next thing you know there'll end up being more female writers and directors too.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Or how about celebrating good female characters and directors, and not attacking your audience? Wonder Woman is a key example. The female director did an exemplary job, in fact she was the first in that line of movies to make a really good movie (Batman vs Superman sucked) as did the actress, Gal Gadot, who wasn't well known as an actress before that. There was some misogynist questioning of this movie before it came out, the actress didn't lash out, and after the movie was released the criticism immediately switched to praise because the movie was actually good. Why not celebrate the long list of female characters I listed earlier, rather than hiding bad movie making behind gender wokeness and accusations of misogyny as a knee jerk response to criticism?

Using gender or race swaps as an excuse or insurance policy for not making a good film is a trend that hopefully is temporary.

 

[Toni]

Or how about celebrating good female characters and directors, and not attacking your audience? Wonder Woman is a key example. The female director did an exemplary job, in fact she was the first in that line of movies to make a really good movie (Batman vs Superman sucked) as did the actress, Gal Gadot, who wasn't well known as an actress before that. There was some misogynist questioning of this movie before it came out, the actress didn't lash out, and after the movie was released the criticism immediately switched to praise because the movie was actually good. Why not celebrate the long list of female characters I listed earlier, rather than hiding bad movie making behind gender wokeness and accusations of misogyny as a knee jerk response to criticism?

Using gender or race swaps as an excuse or insurance policy for not making a good film is a trend that hopefully is temporary.

I don’t see anybody attacking the audience. I do see people defending the films, the characters and the actors.

To look at it through a slightly different lens, consider the controversy over the very accurate casting of the character of Rue in The Hunger Games. There was some significant outrage because this very sympathetic and courageous character was portrayed by a young black actress. Some people were outraged and adamant that they couldn’t find anything sympathetic about the character anymore. Because the role was played by a black child.

To me this is pretty similar.

OTOH, I frankly think that female actresses deserve films and roles built around them rather than simply having women in remakes or new episodes of a previously very male dominated franchise.

 

[laughing dog]

Or how about celebrating good female characters and directors, and not attacking your audience? Wonder Woman is a key example. The female director did an exemplary job, in fact she was the first in that line of movies to make a really good movie (Batman vs Superman sucked) as did the actress, Gal Gadot, who wasn't well known as an actress before that. There was some misogynist questioning of this movie before it came out, the actress didn't lash out, and after the movie was released the criticism immediately switched to praise because the movie was actually good. Why not celebrate the long list of female characters I listed earlier, rather than hiding bad movie making behind gender wokeness and accusations of misogyny as a knee jerk response to criticism?

Using gender or race swaps as an excuse or insurance policy for not making a good film is a trend that hopefully is temporary.

Unfortunately, the incel whining about women in film roles is unlikely to be a temporary trend.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

To look at it through a slightly different lens, consider the controversy over the very accurate casting of the character of Rue in The Hunger Games. There was some significant outrage because this very sympathetic and courageous character was portrayed by a young black actress. Some people were outraged and adamant that they couldn’t find anything sympathetic about the character anymore. Because the role was played by a black child.

To me this is pretty similar.

There is nothing similar. The Hunger Games movies were well made and well written, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even a race swap. Rue was described as dark skinned in the book, wasn't she? It was definitely not an example of swapping in a gendered or racialized character for the sake of deflecting criticism. Swapping a race or gender isn't a problem (ie, Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury, or characters like Supergirl taking off Superman etc). The problem arises when this is done to deflect criticism.

OTOH, I frankly think that female actresses deserve films and roles built around them rather than simply having women in remakes or new episodes of a previously very male dominated franchise.

Absolutely. But that takes effort. Why bother inventing a good new IP when you can just race or gender swap on an old one, not bother writing or producing a halfway good product and then hide behind wokeness if people call you out on it? You can't lose.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Or how about celebrating good female characters and directors, and not attacking your audience? Wonder Woman is a key example. The female director did an exemplary job, in fact she was the first in that line of movies to make a really good movie (Batman vs Superman sucked) as did the actress, Gal Gadot, who wasn't well known as an actress before that. There was some misogynist questioning of this movie before it came out, the actress didn't lash out, and after the movie was released the criticism immediately switched to praise because the movie was actually good. Why not celebrate the long list of female characters I listed earlier, rather than hiding bad movie making behind gender wokeness and accusations of misogyny as a knee jerk response to criticism?

Using gender or race swaps as an excuse or insurance policy for not making a good film is a trend that hopefully is temporary.

Unfortunately, the incel whining about women in film roles is unlikely to be a temporary trend.

^ example number two.