Who Agrees Fourth Wave Feminism is Toxic Femininity And Should Be Abolished?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anakin was interesting because he fell to the dark side. A villain starting out as a too perfect hero can make for a good story. Rey could be made intereresting the same way, but it seems unlikely they would allow such a character turn for her, as that wouldn't keep with the politics they are pushing.

You mean the politics you are pushing. There are no politics with Rey, she is a fictional character with quasi-magical powers. Her character isn't particularly unique, but Star Wars has never been about breaking barriers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

OTOH, I frankly think that female actresses deserve films and roles built around them rather than simply having women in remakes or new episodes of a previously very male dominated franchise.

Absolutely. But that takes effort. Why bother inventing a good new IP when you can just race or gender swap on an old one, not bother writing or producing a halfway good product and then hide behind wokeness if people call you out on it? You can't lose.

Yeah, why don't women just make better products in Hollywood, a place dominated by men.

How about this bullshit? When did people bitch and moan about Rush Hour? It is a Lethal Weapon clone. I don't recall people getting antsy over it.

Star two women in a clone of Lethal Weapon (McCarthy and Bullock) and all of a sudden people are complaining about clones.

How many films or tv shows are clones these days?! Toss a woman into a role and all of sudden people become media experts and whine about wokeness.

 

[laughing dog]

Or how about celebrating good female characters and directors, and not attacking your audience? Wonder Woman is a key example. The female director did an exemplary job, in fact she was the first in that line of movies to make a really good movie (Batman vs Superman sucked) as did the actress, Gal Gadot, who wasn't well known as an actress before that. There was some misogynist questioning of this movie before it came out, the actress didn't lash out, and after the movie was released the criticism immediately switched to praise because the movie was actually good. Why not celebrate the long list of female characters I listed earlier, rather than hiding bad movie making behind gender wokeness and accusations of misogyny as a knee jerk response to criticism?

Using gender or race swaps as an excuse or insurance policy for not making a good film is a trend that hopefully is temporary.

Unfortunately, the incel whining about women in film roles is unlikely to be a temporary trend.

^ example number two.

Wow - incel meta-whining about incel whining.

 

[Toni]

To look at it through a slightly different lens, consider the controversy over the very accurate casting of the character of Rue in The Hunger Games. There was some significant outrage because this very sympathetic and courageous character was portrayed by a young black actress. Some people were outraged and adamant that they couldn’t find anything sympathetic about the character anymore. Because the role was played by a black child.

To me this is pretty similar.

There is nothing similar. The Hunger Games movies were well made and well written, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even a race swap. Rue was described as dark skinned in the book, wasn't she? It was definitely not an example of swapping in a gendered or racialized character for the sake of deflecting criticism. Swapping a race or gender isn't a problem (ie, Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury, or characters like Supergirl taking off Superman etc). The problem arises when this is done to deflect criticism.

OTOH, I frankly think that female actresses deserve films and roles built around them rather than simply having women in remakes or new episodes of a previously very male dominated franchise.

Absolutely. But that takes effort. Why bother inventing a good new IP when you can just race or gender swap on an old one, not bother writing or producing a halfway good product and then hide behind wokeness if people call you out on it? You can't lose.

My point was exactly that Rue was written as a dark skinned character —and the film and the actress were attack d for not meeting the misperceptions of some racist fans who only find a certain kind of character to be acceptable.

Just like a certain portion of Star Wars fans cannot accept a strong female lead when the real issue with that film is that Han and Leila would never have such a sniveling cowardly bully of an offspring and that Adam Driver is horribly, horribly miscast.

The female remake of Ghost Busters was an update—with some good points and some bad ones. As remakes/updates go, it was actually pretty good with spectacular performances by Kate McKinnon and Leslie Jones as well as Chris Hemsworth plus a nice nod and incorporation of the original cast.

The female casting was not done to avoid criticism of an inferior remake.

The real problem is that some cannot and will not accept female actors in roles usually or previously held by male actors.

 

[ruby sparks]

The real problem is that some cannot and will not accept female actors in roles usually or previously held by male actors.

Indeed. What if, some day, it was suggested that a woman could play Dr Who, for example? It's worrying, hypothetically.

 

[Jarhyn]

The real problem is that some cannot and will not accept female actors in roles usually or previously held by male actors.

Indeed. What if, some day, it was suggested that a woman could play Dr Who, for example? It's worrying, hypothetically.

I know you're making a joke of some kind, but I really like that particular Doctor.

 

[laughing dog]

I just realized after reading and digesting the penetrating analyses of another1 and JP, that the reason HRC lost her Presidential bid is that was simply an unimaginative rerun of a Bill Clinton campaign!!!!!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Absolutely. But that takes effort. Why bother inventing a good new IP when you can just race or gender swap on an old one, not bother writing or producing a halfway good product and then hide behind wokeness if people call you out on it? You can't lose.

My point was exactly that Rue was written as a dark skinned character —and the film and the actress were attack d for not meeting the misperceptions of some racist fans who only find a certain kind of character to be acceptable.

Ok. There are bigots who don't like seeing characters who aren't them. Point taken. Irrelevant to what I was talking about though.

Just like a certain portion of Star Wars fans cannot accept a strong female lead when the real issue with that film is that Han and Leila would never have such a sniveling cowardly bully of an offspring and that Adam Driver is horribly, horribly miscast.

The first of the new star wars movies actually isn't horrible. It was not very imaginative, in that it was a clear remake for the original star wars movie. It did have some innovative elements. Fin, the Stom Trooper turned good is a very cool idea that they did well.

Its the second (and latest one) that truly shit the bed with political agenda. Everything in that film is garbage. One could do a master class on how not to make a film based on that movie. Starting with a bad and completely out of place yo momma joke to pointless and horribly written sidequest at a casino to make political points about capitalism and slavery, that you could cut out of the film and it would have no effect whatsoever, to the ruining of Luke's character for no good reason, to admiral gender studies who has a plan she won't tell her male crew because trust women, that turns out to be that you can use hyperspace as a weapon (why did nobody ever do this before??? This is beyond bad writing) to princess leia suddenly becoming mary poppins in space (WTF was that?). To the sudden killing of the big bad Snope without any exploration into his character. All of this mad libs for the sake of "Diverting Expectations". Then you've got Captain Phasma, who was advertised as a strong female character, who hardly actually appears in either film, and is easily felled by Fin both times they clash, ruining what could have been a cool character arc for him eventually overcoming her had she initially beaten him down. And then of course you've got Rose, who crashes her ship into Fin's to stop him from sacrificing himself to save the day.. because "love" or some shit. I could go on and on here.

And when people criticized it for what it is, all you heard back is "You must have strong women in film. If you don't like this film that's misogyny". What strong woman? Rey the Mary Sue who faces no adversity and overcomes nothing and has zero character arc and hardly any personality?

The female remake of Ghost Busters was an update—with some good points and some bad ones. As remakes/updates go, it was actually pretty good with spectacular performances by Kate McKinnon and Leslie Jones as well as Chris Hemsworth plus a nice nod and incorporation of the original cast.

The female casting was not done to avoid criticism of an inferior remake.

Bullshit. Did you see the adds for it? If was an all male cast with the same script, it would have sucked, and nobody would have tried to hide behind their gender to deflect criticism.

The real problem is that some cannot and will not accept female actors in roles usually or previously held by male actors.

A very small some. As we can see with movies and TV shows in which females are the stars and the fans cheer for rather than cringe at. I gave a long list of such films and TV.

Since we're talking hollywood, here's a script describing what's going on

A: They casted a woman for this movie! I wanted a man! Boooo!
B: Mysogynist
C: Yup
C: Actually, this film sucks because X, Y, Z (nothing to do with gender)
B: Misogynist
C: Wut now?
A: See bro, you're just like me! You see it!
B: Misogynists!
C: What now? Cant I criticize this film because it sucks because...
B: Any criticism of this film is misogyny. You hate women.
A: White power!
C: *shrug*

*producer of shit movie counts his money behind the curtain as C's criticism is deflected and more rubes come into the theatre to be let down*

The real problem is that some cannot and will not accept female actors in roles usually or previously held by male actors.

Indeed. What if, some day, it was suggested that a woman could play Dr Who, for example? It's worrying, hypothetically.

Given the trend we're seeing, it was a little worrying. And that's not fair to it. It deserved a fair chance. Until of course the first season is complete, and it turns out to be quite subpar after all, without any overall story arc and lacking most of the elements (like the key villain factions) that made Dr. Who what it was, to the point that the producers feel they need to release a statement to the press that they will be bringing back overarching story and classic villains in the next season to save the show form what the last producer was mucking up. And then of course, the woke come out to defend against this criticism by alleging misogyny. But none of the problem had anything to do with the Doctor herself. She was pretty great. She was just given very little to work with.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I just realized after reading and digesting the penetrating analyses of another1 and JP, that the reason HRC lost her Presidential bid is that was simply an unimaginative rerun of a Bill Clinton campaign!!!!!

If only. She likely would have won were that the case. He had charisma, as did Obama even moreso. Neither were robotic transparent shills like Hillary (though Bill Clinton was most definitely a shill). You want a good female Presidential candidate? Look towards Warren. If not for her pocahontas thing she may have had an excellent chance.

 

[Trausti]

Did Emma Sulkowicz Get Redpilled? At the very least, she’s found a new social set.

In explaining the arc of her life since Mattress Performance, Sulkowicz invokes something surprising. “As I became more and more feminist,” she recalls, “I think I got to a point where I was literally just straight up hating men. I just hated men, I wished all men would die.” But embarking on her political journey made her want to understand them, so she jumped into the belly of the beast, reading the book that “had always been framed to me as the book that all dudes read and then they became yucky”: Neil Strauss’s The Game, considered the bible of pickup artists.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Its the second (and latest one) that truly shit the bed with political agenda. Everything in that film is garbage. One could do a master class on how not to make a film based on that movie. Starting with a bad and completely out of place yo momma joke to pointless and horribly written sidequest at a casino to make political points about capitalism and slavery...

That would be you projecting that.

... to admiral gender studies who has a plan she won't tell her male crew because trust women

Serious issues for you here. She doesn't need to tell Mr. I'm a Fucking Spontaneous and Continually Failing Fighter Pilot anything. She is his boss. That is how militaries work.

And when people criticized it for what it is...

You mean the relentless hate on social media against the actors who played Rey and Rose? Because that is what Toni is talking about.

...all you heard back is "You must have strong women in film. If you don't like this film that's misogyny".

Technically you brought up the female Admiral having the audacity not to tell a guy that should have been executed for breaking orders repeatedly... what the Admiral's plan was.

Rey the Mary Sue who faces no adversity and overcomes nothing and has zero character arc and hardly any personality?

What are you talking about? Rey's and Kylo's character development was the only saving grace of that movie.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What are you talking about? Rey's and Kylo's character development

Darth Emo is at least a bit of a character (though he's pretty lacking too). But Rey? Character development? What character development?

was the only saving grace of that movie.

So you admit it was a shit movie. Now you've joined the misogynists in the eyes of the woke.

She doesn't need to tell Mr. I'm a Fucking Spontaneous and Continually Failing Fighter Pilot anything. She is his boss. That is how militaries work.

That's not how the original Star Wars rebellion worked. They explained the plan to the fighter pilots before they launched. They knew what they were doing and why. They were not told to stand there and wait to die because that's what the boss says. That's more something you'd expect from the dark side fleet than from the good guys in a movie such as this. And what was her brilliant plan? To hyperspace herself and commit suicide. That's some great plan right there.

You mean the relentless hate on social media against the actors who played Rey and Rose? Because that is what Toni is talking about.

She was addressing me, and that has nothing at all to do with what I was talking about.

Technically you brought up the female Admiral having the audacity not to tell a guy that should have been executed for breaking orders repeatedly... what the Admiral's plan was.

Of a dozen other things wrong with the film I noted. Its telling that this is the one you latch onto. But even still, so what? If that character had been male, it would have still been a stupid script.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Darth Emo is at least a bit of a character (though he's pretty lacking too). But Rey? Character development? What character development?

You know, the part where she needs to decide who she is, where she is with the force.

So you admit it was a shit movie. Now you've joined the misogynists in the eyes of the woke.

I was able to write a review without complaining about politics, gender, or any of that SJW bullshit you tossed out there.

She doesn't need to tell Mr. I'm a Fucking Spontaneous and Continually Failing Fighter Pilot anything. She is his boss. That is how militaries work.

That's not how the original Star Wars rebellion worked.

That was in a galaxy far far away and a long longer time ago. There is virtually no rebellion left. So when you have an Admiral, they are in charge... and not required to explain themselves to the guy that had most of the remaining space force destroyed in an attack so poorly planned, people watching it thought Freddie Kitchens organized it. (Cleveland Browns reference)

And we also get to the point where you needlessly bring up her gender as if there is some sort of issue there. You are putting your politics into a scene where there are no politics to be seen.

You mean the relentless hate on social media against the actors who played Rey and Rose? Because that is what Toni is talking about.

She was addressing me, and that has nothing at all to do with what I was talking about.

We know. You like to discuss about what everyone else isn't talking about. The reality is the female leads were relentlessly targeted online. It happened. You might want to ignore that it happened, for whatever reason... probably because it makes it a bit easier to suggest people are overreacting.

Technically you brought up the female Admiral having the audacity not to tell a guy that should have been executed for breaking orders repeatedly... what the Admiral's plan was.

Of a dozen other things wrong with the film I noted. Its telling that this is the one you latch onto. But even still, so what? If that character had been male, it would have still been a stupid script.

Sure, but you wouldn't have used the term "gender studies".

 

[Metaphor]

Did Emma Sulkowicz Get Redpilled? At the very least, she’s found a new social set.

In explaining the arc of her life since Mattress Performance, Sulkowicz invokes something surprising. “As I became more and more feminist,” she recalls, “I think I got to a point where I was literally just straight up hating men. I just hated men, I wished all men would die.” But embarking on her political journey made her want to understand them, so she jumped into the belly of the beast, reading the book that “had always been framed to me as the book that all dudes read and then they became yucky”: Neil Strauss’s The Game, considered the bible of pickup artists.

From that article:

Since 2016, Sulkowicz has identified as gender fluid, and she sometimes uses they/them pronouns.

I guess when her false accusation of rape stopped getting her attention, she became a genderspecial. Good for her.

Swiping through Tinder, a man she found “distasteful” super-liked her. “It smelled like Connecticut,” she says of his profile. “He was very blond, law school, cut jawline, trapezoidal body figure, tweed suit kind of vibe, but something inside of me made me swipe right, I don’t know.”

It cracks me up when feminists who hate men are also heterosexual. Hun, pick one or the other.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

We know. You like to discuss about what everyone else isn't talking about.

It's exactly what another1 was talking about. I followed up on his/her post which was being attacked likely for the very reasons I was going into.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It cracks me up when feminists who hate men are also heterosexual. Hun, pick one or the other.

I don't think you can control what you are attracted to. And I say that as a bisexual. I mean, if it was choice, wouldn't everyone choose to be bisexual and double their options in the dating pool?

 

[Metaphor]

It cracks me up when feminists who hate men are also heterosexual. Hun, pick one or the other.

I don't think you can control what you are attracted to. And I say that as a bisexual. I mean, if it was choice, wouldn't everyone choose to be bisexual and double their options in the dating pool?

No, it isn't a choice. When I said "pick one or the other" I was making a light-hearted joke about what a sad state of affairs hating men but also wanting to fuck them is.

 

[Half-Life]

It cracks me up when feminists who hate men are also heterosexual. Hun, pick one or the other.

I don't think you can control what you are attracted to. And I say that as a bisexual. I mean, if it was choice, wouldn't everyone choose to be bisexual and double their options in the dating pool?

I believe it is a choice. People make choices to have sex with people they don't want to have sex with all the time. Have you heard of the casting couch?

 

[Toni]

You mean the relentless hate on social media against the actors who played Rey and Rose? Because that is what Toni is talking about.

She was addressing me, and that has nothing at all to do with what I was talking about.
.

I was making a point in reference to a post that you made. There's been some back and forth.

My point is exactly as Jimmy stated: there is a lot of relentless hate on social media against the actors who play Rey and other strong female characters in a male dominated franchise.

The ONLY reason that Katniss wasn't attacked for being such an inappropriate badass is that the books featured a strong female heroine, making them much more palatable towards girls, making girls a much more natural fan base for the movies.

 

[WAB]

It cracks me up when feminists who hate men are also heterosexual. Hun, pick one or the other.

I don't think you can control what you are attracted to. And I say that as a bisexual. I mean, if it was choice, wouldn't everyone choose to be bisexual and double their options in the dating pool?

I believe it is a choice. People make choices to have sex with people they don't want to have sex with all the time. Have you heard of the casting couch?

Are you saying that gay people choose to have sex with people they actually don't want to have sex with?