Who Agrees Fourth Wave Feminism is Toxic Femininity And Should Be Abolished?

[Metaphor]

This coming from someone who lied about what I believed for five years.

. It seems we agree on something: neither of us knows what you are talking about!

Without some detail to that accusation and without evidence, that is simply a lame ass smear attempt.

Sorry, that was actually meant to be a reply to Toni, and she knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog. But everybody knows if you are an idiot.

 

[another1]

Rush jobs that feel more like implants than special memories are just insulting and hollow gestures. It would better to actually want to see a female in a role previously played by a male. We could reach that point someday, but trying to force it at this stage is detrimental to the fourth try, isn't it? Feminists could work on popularizing instances of actual progress, to gain more progress. Faking progress in Hollywood and shoving it down everyone's throats is just sabotage

Indeed. There does seem to be a trend in film and TV latching onto wokeness instead of making an actual effort to create entertaining well written and produced shows. Imagine how much better Rey from the new star wars could have been had they not felt the need to make her a flawless Mary Sue because "the force is female". And have you seen the new Batwoman show? They put no effort into that whatsoever, unlike Supergirl made by the same studio I think, where they actually make it a pretty good show. People still do write good female characters, as seen in game of thrones (notwithstanding the final season).

I made it through ten minutes of Batwoman. Couldn't make it to the end. Will check out Supergirl sometime because I'm not totally against female superheroes. I just don't like replacing them for no good reason ya know. And yeah they mutilated the force. It's just gone.

Is this about the Ghostbusters bullshit again?

Zipr this isn't limited to Ghostbusters. It spans all of Hollywood and affects dozens of classic movies, shows, superheroes etc. And I think you missed my point entirely

Just because there's a remake at the theaters doesn't mean you have to watch it.

Yep you missed it Arctish

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Supergirl is about on par with Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Arrow. Its another dopey CW drama, like those all are, but it's just as good and charming as the others of its sort (when in the right mood I do enjoy them). They didn't just insert female lead and call it a day like they appear to have done with Batwoman. The best TV series superhero I have seen is still Daredevil, season one and two especially. That was very good TV. I heard Black Widow is getting a show? That has potential to be good. The character is well done.

And to those of you misunderstanding another1 here, it isn't about not liking a show because it is casted as not a white male. Its about casting a not white male as an excuse not to make a good show, or letting wokeness get in the way or writing a good show, like they did with Rey from Star Wars. They were afraid to let their female lead show any sort of weakness. She had to be the perfect one so she could be a role model to little girls etc. Luke had weaknesses and had to train and improve, overcome challenges, had set backs, etc. They couldn't do that with Rey due to their political decisions, so she turned out to be a very boring character with no character arc. Start perfect, no challenge, no set backs, win everything, why bother watching? Contrast that with how the female characters in Game of Thrones were all written.

The gender of Rey, the new ghost busters, the new Dr. from Dr. Who (who is a good character with a good actress; but they really dropped the ball on writing her first season; leaving out the good baddies and having no connecting story), Captain Marvel (though less so), etc isn't the problem with these movies. Nor is race switching a problem, as seen with Nick Fury in the Marvel Films. He's great. It doesn't matter, at all, that he's a black guy instead of the traditional white cigar munching guy that he is in the comics. The problems are various and the gender, race, etc of the character is used to deflect criticism of those various flaws. It has become pretty common now to make a bad film/show, put some character forward who is X, and then claim all criticism of the show is because character is X. No. Often such criticism is just because the show sucks, be that character X, Y, or Z.

Its almost like a new Hollywood woke insurance policy. If your film sucks, don't worry. Just make the lead character a transgender black lady in a wheelchair, and shoot those critics down. They are all just bigots.

 

[ZiprHead]

Supergirl first appeared in Action Comics #252 in 1959. Batgirl 1961.

 

[laughing dog]

This coming from someone who lied about what I believed for five years.

. It seems we agree on something: neither of us knows what you are talking about!

Without some detail to that accusation and without evidence, that is simply a lame ass smear attempt.

Sorry, that was actually meant to be a reply to Toni, and she knows what I'm talking about.

Thank for the clarification, I appreciate your candor and apology.

 

[another1]

Its about casting a not white male as an excuse not to make a good show, or letting wokeness get in the way or writing a good show, like they did with Rey from Star Wars.

Yes they should wait until I say something inaccurate at least. Impatience, it really is abstracting and driving the whole affair, on every level. Wanting too much too soon and making things look better for females than they actual are, though cinema. Then jumping to the easiest, most feminist conclusion before analyzing what people write about the situation. Maybe feminists (and females in general) shoot themselves in the foot so often because of unrealistic role models.

They were afraid to let their female lead show any sort of weakness. She had to be the perfect one so she could be a role model to little girls etc.

Yeah a perfect role model will turn you into a crackhead. Imperfections are we what we relate to, not the ability to throw a motorcycle or cut down the fucking leader of the First Order the first time you EVER swing a light saber. These little girls are power puffs fighting through this modern nightmare, dodging swinging dicks and defying ancient preconceptions. Their work is cut out for them, and the don't need a start perfect, no challenge, no set backs, win everything, why bother watching kind of story. This problem causes a lot of concern because it is so much more than just a writing and fan opinion. Nowadays, the way things look are arguably more important than the way they actually are. That is a whole other thing but also relative

The problems are various and the gender, race, etc of the character is used to deflect criticism of those various flaws

Yes the point is lost in the "feminist bs", and blacks have never really been a huge part of comics traditionally, but writer instinct naturally incorporates more of them into a fair comic universe for the screen. That is a cosmetic issue in my opinion. The bigger problems definitely are overshadowed by the more superficial ones, and everyone loses because we don't want superficialheroes

 

[Toni]

This coming from someone who lied about what I believed for five years.

. It seems we agree on something: neither of us knows what you are talking about!

Without some detail to that accusation and without evidence, that is simply a lame ass smear attempt.

Sorry, that was actually meant to be a reply to Toni, and she knows what I'm talking about.

If only.

You may as well tell the entire story: I've tried privately to make amends with you and you've flatly refused as well as refusing to acknowledge that you have any role to play in the misunderstanding. Instead, you prefer to bring up your grudge whenever you can.

As I've said before: Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

I'm alive and kicking and don't plan to go anywhere. You can keep drinking that poison all you like. It won't hurt me at all. But I do wish you wouldn't do that. I don't often agree with you but I really don't like to see anyone so unhappy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, they don't have to make Bond a female, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. This is all fictitious bullshit anyway. I'd like to see a woman play Bond and treat the men in her life the way Bond has traditionally treated the women. That would be pretty cool. . It would be fun and give men a taste of what it's like to be a woman. Yeah. I like that idea. . Bwahahahaha

Disagree. Bond is a character, that would totally not be faithful to the character.

Note that the movie doesn't have a female Bond, it has a female 007. I have no problem at all with that, although I have my doubts about how the movie will turn out.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Its almost like a new Hollywood woke insurance policy. If your film sucks, don't worry. Just make the lead character a transgender black lady in a wheelchair, and shoot those critics down. They are all just bigots.

Rather like my opinion of R-rated movies. I consider R to stand for "Rotten". Just about every R-rated movie I've seen used the R-rated elements in place of being a good movie.

 

[ZiprHead]

Its almost like a new Hollywood woke insurance policy. If your film sucks, don't worry. Just make the lead character a transgender black lady in a wheelchair, and shoot those critics down. They are all just bigots.

Rather like my opinion of R-rated movies. I consider R to stand for "Rotten". Just about every R-rated movie I've seen used the R-rated elements in place of being a good movie.

Joker is R rated and just became the highest grossing R rated film, beating Deadpool. Both are excellent. Gran Torino, The Departed, The Exorcist, Get Out, Pulp Fiction, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now. The list goes on and on of great R rated movies. I wonder just what the hell you watch.

SMDH

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Joker is R rated and just became the highest grossing R rated film, beating Deadpool. Both are excellent.

Kudos to you. I half expected that you'd be on the "Joker glorifies Incel violence" bandwagon. Glad to be wrong.

 

[ZiprHead]

Joker is R rated and just became the highest grossing R rated film, beating Deadpool. Both are excellent.

Kudos to you. I half expected that you'd be on the "Joker glorifies Incel violence" bandwagon. Glad to be wrong.

I don't give a fuck what dumbass incels think. Their lack of self-awareness is their problem. Let them continue to huddle in their mom's basement typing in chat rooms not polluting the gene pool.

 

[Arctish]

Indeed. There does seem to be a trend in film and TV latching onto wokeness instead of making an actual effort to create entertaining well written and produced shows. Imagine how much better Rey from the new star wars could have been had they not felt the need to make her a flawless Mary Sue because "the force is female". And have you seen the new Batwoman show? They put no effort into that whatsoever, unlike Supergirl made by the same studio I think, where they actually make it a pretty good show. People still do write good female characters, as seen in game of thrones (notwithstanding the final season).

And to those of you misunderstanding another1 here, it isn't about not liking a show because it is casted as not a white male. Its about casting a not white male as an excuse not to make a good show, or letting wokeness get in the way or writing a good show, like they did with Rey from Star Wars. They were afraid to let their female lead show any sort of weakness. She had to be the perfect one so she could be a role model to little girls etc. Luke had weaknesses and had to train and improve, overcome challenges, had set backs, etc. They couldn't do that with Rey due to their political decisions, so she turned out to be a very boring character with no character arc. Start perfect, no challenge, no set backs, win everything, why bother watching? Contrast that with how the female characters in Game of Thrones were all written.

Its about casting a not white male as an excuse not to make a good show, or letting wokeness get in the way or writing a good show, like they did with Rey from Star Wars.

Yes they should wait until I say something inaccurate at least. Impatience, it really is abstracting and driving the whole affair, on every level. Wanting too much too soon and making things look better for females than they actual are, though cinema. Then jumping to the easiest, most feminist conclusion before analyzing what people write about the situation. Maybe feminists (and females in general) shoot themselves in the foot so often because of unrealistic role models.

Yeah a perfect role model will turn you into a crackhead. Imperfections are we what we relate to, not the ability to throw a motorcycle or cut down the fucking leader of the First Order the first time you EVER swing a light saber.

As the old adage says, a woman has to work twice as hard and accomplish twice as much to get half the credit a man would get. Rey is an excellent example.

Luke was a farm boy living so far out in the sticks they didn't even have sticks. He got one brief lesson in what the Force is and how it is used by the Jedi, and within a minute or so we see him using a light saber to deflect laser shots while blindfolded. He had no experience with Imperial space cruisers but that didn't stop him from carrying out a successful rescue on one, winning a firefight with Imperial Stormtroopers, and shooting down trained Tie fighter pilots. And then, despite having zero training or experience piloting a fighter himself, he was given an X-wing and went on to dodge the repeated attacks of a Sith Lord, channel the Force, make the Impossible Shot, and Save the Day.

But you think the character of Rey, who grew up scavenging and fighting off other scavengers, is unrealistic because she figured out how to use a light saber without the 1 minute of instruction Luke got? Or was it the Jedi Mind Trick that was just so much less believable than Luke dodging Darth Vader's attacks before Obi Wan told him to Use the Force?

 

[Toni]

Its about casting a not white male as an excuse not to make a good show, or letting wokeness get in the way or writing a good show, like they did with Rey from Star Wars.

Yes they should wait until I say something inaccurate at least. Impatience, it really is abstracting and driving the whole affair, on every level. Wanting too much too soon and making things look better for females than they actual are, though cinema. Then jumping to the easiest, most feminist conclusion before analyzing what people write about the situation. Maybe feminists (and females in general) shoot themselves in the foot so often because of unrealistic role models.

Yeah a perfect role model will turn you into a crackhead. Imperfections are we what we relate to, not the ability to throw a motorcycle or cut down the fucking leader of the First Order the first time you EVER swing a light saber.

As the old adage says, a woman has to work twice as hard and accomplish twice as much to get half the credit a man would get. Rey is an excellent example.

Luke was a farm boy living so far out in the sticks they didn't even have sticks. He got one brief lesson in what the Force is and how it is used by the Jedi, and within a minute or so we see him using a light saber to deflect laser shots while blindfolded. He had no experience with Imperial space cruisers but that didn't stop him from carrying out a successful rescue on one, winning a firefight with Imperial Stormtroopers, and shooting down trained Tie fighter pilots. And then, despite having zero training or experience piloting a fighter himself, he was given an X-wing and went on to dodge the repeated attacks of a Sith Lord, channel the Force, make the Impossible Shot, and Save the Day.

But you think the character of Rey, who grew up scavenging and fighting off other scavengers, is unrealistic because she figured out how to use a light saber without the 1 minute of instruction Luke got? Or was it the Jedi Mind Trick that was just so much less believable than Luke dodging Darth Vader's attacks before Obi Wan told him to Use the Force?

Of course Rey was less believable, lacking the only light saber that actually counts.

 

[another1]

Luke was a farm boy living so far out in the sticks they didn't even have sticks. He got one brief lesson in what the Force is and how it is used by the Jedi, and within a minute or so we see him using a light saber to deflect laser shots while blindfolded. He had no experience with Imperial space cruisers but that didn't stop him from carrying out a successful rescue on one, winning a firefight with Imperial Stormtroopers, and shooting down trained Tie fighter pilots. And then, despite having zero training or experience piloting a fighter himself, he was given an X-wing and went on to dodge the repeated attacks of a Sith Lord, channel the Force, make the Impossible Shot, and Save the Day.

But you think the character of Rey, who grew up scavenging and fighting off other scavengers, is unrealistic because she figured out how to use a light saber without the 1 minute of instruction Luke got? Or was it the Jedi Mind Trick that was just so much less believable than Luke dodging Darth Vader's attacks before Obi Wan told him to Use the

Comparing Star Wars 1977 to The Force awakens is like comparing Carey Grant to fucking Owen Wilson. As for contrasting Luke and Rey, Luke was taught by Obi and Yoda, plus he had time to train on his own. Rey picks up a sword and humiliates one of the galaxy's most feared men. Because girl power. Because someone wants you confused. I'm not denying that the force can help us do wonderful things but it takes time and practice. Like I've been saying all along, actual progress is going to take more time. Do females really get a feeling of pride when they see all this shit happening in entertainment? I'd be ashamed

 

[fromderinside]

Do females really get a feeling of pride when they see all this shit happening in entertainment? I'd be ashamed

Anything is possible if the FORCE IS IN YOU


So no females probably do feel pride that they are finally being equally represented in these fantasy pics.

Maybe you should go back and see Shallow Hal! You might figure it out.

 

[Arctish]

Luke was a farm boy living so far out in the sticks they didn't even have sticks. He got one brief lesson in what the Force is and how it is used by the Jedi, and within a minute or so we see him using a light saber to deflect laser shots while blindfolded. He had no experience with Imperial space cruisers but that didn't stop him from carrying out a successful rescue on one, winning a firefight with Imperial Stormtroopers, and shooting down trained Tie fighter pilots. And then, despite having zero training or experience piloting a fighter himself, he was given an X-wing and went on to dodge the repeated attacks of a Sith Lord, channel the Force, make the Impossible Shot, and Save the Day.

But you think the character of Rey, who grew up scavenging and fighting off other scavengers, is unrealistic because she figured out how to use a light saber without the 1 minute of instruction Luke got? Or was it the Jedi Mind Trick that was just so much less believable than Luke dodging Darth Vader's attacks before Obi Wan told him to Use the

Comparing Star Wars 1977 to The Force awakens is like comparing Carey Grant to fucking Owen Wilson. As for contrasting Luke and Rey, Luke was taught by Obi and Yoda, plus he had time to train on his own. Rey picks up a sword and humiliates one of the galaxy's most feared men. Because girl power. Because someone wants you confused.

Luke spent less than a day in Obi Wan's company. By the time he met Yoda he'd fought his way off an Imperial cruiser with a rescued hostage, shot up Tie fighters like a boss, flew an X-wing fighter like an ace despite being the rankest noob in the fleet, and destroyed the most awesome weapons platform in the universe by using the Force, something he'd only just learned about the day before.

Luke grew up fixing farm equipment, shooting womp rats, and hanging out with Wedge. Rey grew up fighting for scraps and fending off slavers. But somehow Luke's awesomeness the first time he was in battle is unremarkable while Rey being a good fighter strains credulity.

I'm not denying that the force can help us do wonderful things but it takes time and practice.

Remember the little kid at the end of The Last Jedi who used the Force to pick up a broom?

Access to the Force doesn't take time or practice, it takes inborn ability. And learning to use it is apparently pretty easy if you can hear what your midi-chlorians are telling you. Luke, Rey, and that little kid have the ability. Anakin had so much of it he was ridiculously competent-in-all-things until it was 'cute' for him to shoot up a battleship by accident. He could beat adult pod-racers with way more experience, even those who were cheating, because he used the Force instinctively.

Like I've been saying all along, actual progress is going to take more time. Do females really get a feeling of pride when they see all this shit happening in entertainment? I'd be ashamed

Sure, actual progress takes time. But it starts with ideas and imagination being expressed in popular culture. Science fiction has always reflected the fears, concerns, and attitudes of the time in which it is written. Right now I'm watching the 1953 version of War of the Worlds. Earlier today the 1938 Orson Wells radio version was broadcast on public radio. The two versions share a lot of similarities but there's definitely a difference, most notably in the addition of concern about radiation exposure and making one of the main characters female. Sure, the character of Sylvia Van Buren acted mostly an assistant to Dr. Forrester, but the fact the movie depicted an intelligent, college educated women doing important things and not simply swooning at the sight of danger was progress.

Maybe someday someone will make a War of the Worlds movie where Dr. Forrester is a woman and the main male character is her assistant. Probably a lot of guys will gripe about how the story has been 'ruined', even if it's better than the Spielberg version.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

So, how many of you miss Jar Jar Binks?

And why hasn't Part 2 of Battlefield Earth hit the silver screen?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Do females really get a feeling of pride when they see all this shit happening in entertainment? I'd be ashamed

Anything is possible if the FORCE IS IN YOU


So no females probably do feel pride that they are finally being equally represented in these fantasy pics.

Maybe you should go back and see Shallow Hal! You might figure it out.

Here's what I predicted above. Criticize Rey being a total Mary Sue, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize the new Ghostbusters as lacking pacing and good funny jokes, and you'll have it suggested that you are a misogynist. Criticize Captain Marvel, get told off by Bree Larson herself, that this film wasn't made for you (that's a great way to win over fans for sure). Make any crappy movie, and buy some insurance by making the lead role female, and then you can cry misogynist if anyone criticizes your mess.

As I also said above, this does not empower women. Women deserve better than to be pandered to and used as an insurance policy against criticism for a crap product.

Game of thrones shows women with actual character arcs. Wonder Woman had a powerful woman with some personal challenges and growth. Sarah Connor from Terminator series and Ellen Ripley from Aliens were both relatable female characters who overcame adversity and grew through character arcs. Jessica Jones, Supergirl, Princess Leah from the original Star Wars, Marvel's Black Widow, hell even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena Warrior Princess all could stand on their own, not having to and hide behind their skirts to deflect criticism. We need more of that and less of this woke insurance pandering.

And to say that women have to work twice as hard to get half as much, sure isn't a message anyone is going to get from watching a total Mary Sue like Rey. She hardly has to break a sweat to master anything and everything.