George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[Mumbles]

There is a peculiar personality defect which is found in a lot of people. The truth is never completely sufficient. They have a horrible fear of not being believed and always embellish the truth, sometimes to the point of complete fabrication. It's a pattern that colors every personal interaction, whether it is with family, friends, or stranger.

Ok, sure. But what evidence do you have that Zimmerman in particular would have lied about where he parked his car? And why would he have parked his car at all, if he was going dow the Twin Trees Lane? The scenario doesn't make any sense, and it requires additional assumption that Zimmerman is a pathological liar.

Occam's Razor strikes again.

Now, let's think about this.

According to Zimmerman, he moved his car at dispatch's request. That was a lie.

He said that Martin came back and circled his car. Another lie.

He claimed that Martin made a 6-minute walk in two minutes, while walking slowly. Another lie.

He said that he couldn't see an address from his car. Another lie.

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He said that Martin was both punching him with objects, and simultaneously grabbed his head and slammed it against concrete. Another lie.

He also claimed that Martin saw the gun at his back, and shouted "You gonna die tonight, motherfucker!" Another lie.

If you wish to call this "pathological lying" then go ahead. The point is, his story is nonsensical and contradicted by evidence.

 

[Mumbles]

Again, no. He describes Twin Trees Lane as a "cut-through", and it's plain that the reason he can't simply look and see the address he's parked by is because, when the dispatcher asked him, he had already jumped out of his car to run after Martin.

But why would he jump out if he was going down Twin Trees Lane? Why not just drive?

Why would he push a woman out of her own house and barricade himself inside when he knows she's talking to the cops on the phone?

The man is stupid.

 

[Jayjay]

Ok, sure. But what evidence do you have that Zimmerman in particular would have lied about where he parked his car? And why would he have parked his car at all, if he was going dow the Twin Trees Lane? The scenario doesn't make any sense, and it requires additional assumption that Zimmerman is a pathological liar.

Occam's Razor strikes again.

Now, let's think about this.

According to Zimmerman, he moved his car at dispatch's request. That was a lie.

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I don't remember him saying that but probably he said a lot of things during his police interview and I'm not going to bother watching the whole thing again.

He said that Martin came back and circled his car. Another lie.

How do you know it was a lie? Martin could have circled his car, or he could have misremembered or misdescribed Martin just checking him out.

He claimed that Martin made a 6-minute walk in two minutes, while walking slowly. Another lie.

I don't know what the heck you are talking about. What 6-minute walk?

He said that he couldn't see an address from his car. Another lie.

He wasn't at his car.

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

He said that Martin was both punching him with objects, and simultaneously grabbed his head and slammed it against concrete. Another lie.

He also claimed that Martin saw the gun at his back, and shouted "You gonna die tonight, motherfucker!" Another lie.

For these two, he had a reason to lie. What you are suggesting though is that Zimmerman makes up nonsensical lies even when he doesn't have to.

 

[ksen]

and it requires additional assumption that Zimmerman is a pathological liar.

not seeing that as being much of a stretch

 

[coloradoatheist]

There is a reason why lawyers very strongly suggest that you talk to them first and don't make any statements until they are there and can verify everything. Human memory is good, not great, and are here analyzing every single word and phrase when at the time of the statements in video he wasn't thinking, "I need to make sure every syllable, command, and t is crossed" so millions of people analyzing this don't trip me up.

- - - Updated - - -

And in the walk through he clarifies some things that mumbles sees as a lie. If you are car is parked on the back side of a house, you aren't going to see the address.

 

[Mumbles]

Now, let's think about this.

According to Zimmerman, he moved his car at dispatch's request. That was a lie.

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I don't remember him saying that but probably he said a lot of things during his police interview and I'm not going to bother watching the whole thing again.

He said that Martin came back and circled his car. Another lie.

How do you know it was a lie? Martin could have circled his car, or he could have misremembered or misdescribed Martin just checking him out.

What, you think Martin was trying to buy his car? If you're trying to intimidate the driver, you don't walk around the car in a circle, you walk up to the driver's side and start banging on windows, yanking on door handles, yelling, and so on. The whole "He came back and circled my car, and I told that to dispatch." was my big clue what he wasn't merely a liar, but a grossly incompetent one.

He claimed that Martin made a 6-minute walk in two minutes, while walking slowly. Another lie.

I don't know what the heck you are talking about. What 6-minute walk?

Zimmerman gives a particular path that Martin took. He call given him approximately 2 minutes to make that walk before Zimmerman says "Shit, he's running" The walk would have taken 6 minutes at an average walking speed. This is impossible. This is why I rejected the idea of Martin "casing houses" - that would have made him even slower.

He said that he couldn't see an address from his car. Another lie.

He wasn't at his car.

That's exactly the problem. Zimmerman said that he was asked for an address on Twin Trees Lane while in his car, and that he couldn't see one. He was not asked for an address while in his car, there was an address directly in front of where he supposedly was, and he did not exit his vehicle to look for an address on Retreat View Circle.

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

Very simple. Why should we think he ran over to Retreat View Circle at all? For an address that he wouldn't be at? That makes no sense.

He said that Martin was both punching him with objects, and simultaneously grabbed his head and slammed it against concrete. Another lie.

He also claimed that Martin saw the gun at his back, and shouted "You gonna die tonight, motherfucker!" Another lie.

For these two, he had a reason to lie. What you are suggesting though is that Zimmerman makes up nonsensical lies even when he doesn't have to.

And that appears to be exactly what he does.

 

[Mumbles]

There is a reason why lawyers very strongly suggest that you talk to them first and don't make any statements until they are there and can verify everything. Human memory is good, not great, and are here analyzing every single word and phrase when at the time of the statements in video he wasn't thinking, "I need to make sure every syllable, command, and t is crossed" so millions of people analyzing this don't trip me up.

Well, yes, it's clearly smart to talk to a lawyer in a case like this, before you say a thing to the police. But again, Zimmerman's not a smart guy.

And in the walk through he clarifies some things that mumbles sees as a lie. If you are car is parked on the back side of a house, you aren't going to see the address.

He was supposedly parked directly facing the front of a house, with an address number plainly on it.

Everything I said is simply comparing what he said about that particular incident, to the actual evidence, and what is physically possible. For example, it was completely impossible for Martin to see the gun at Zimmerman's back, while Zimmerman was lying on his back, in the dark, in the rain, in the grass. Similarly in this case, his story of him just throwing a wine bottle at a garage door is absurd - and it still makes him look bad. To me, this says "Drunk and violent", until I see evidence otherwise.

 

[Nexus]

The scenario doesn't make any sense, and it requires additional assumption that Zimmerman is a pathological liar.

Occam's Razor strikes again.

The fact he is a stupid liar isn't an assumption anymore its a fact. This could be easily determined after the lies about assets for bail that got his exwife convicted of perjury.

 

[Rhea]

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

He told the police to call him back because he knew he plaNNED TO CHASE DOWN THE KID AND WASN't sure where he was going to be. He didn't need to "look for an address," he needed an excuse for why he followed the kid after being told not to. He knew he was going to follow, hence "call me later and I'll tell you where I am," and later came up with the looking for an address bullshit.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is a peculiar personality defect which is found in a lot of people. The truth is never completely sufficient. They have a horrible fear of not being believed and always embellish the truth, sometimes to the point of complete fabrication. It's a pattern that colors every personal interaction, whether it is with family, friends, or stranger.

Ok, sure. But what evidence do you have that Zimmerman in particular would have lied about where he parked his car? And why would he have parked his car at all, if he was going dow the Twin Trees Lane? The scenario doesn't make any sense, and it requires additional assumption that Zimmerman is a pathological liar.

Occam's Razor strikes again.

Why do I need evidence? If you think Zimmerman is a stand up guy, who can be trusted to tell the truth, even when it might be to his detriment, I'm sure you have good reason to believe so. Zimmerman collected thousands of dollars in contributions for his legal defense, while claiming to be destitute. Not exactly the sort of thing one expects from a stand up guy.

I don't have a dog in this fight, unless Zimmerman moves to my neighborhood. I live in a mixed race area where a lot of people walk the streets after dark.

 

[coloradoatheist]

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

He told the police to call him back because he knew he plaNNED TO CHASE DOWN THE KID AND WASN't sure where he was going to be. He didn't need to "look for an address," he needed an excuse for why he followed the kid after being told not to. He knew he was going to follow, hence "call me later and I'll tell you where I am," and later came up with the looking for an address bullshit.

I agree with you in bit. He was out of the car near where he last saw Trayvon run off, so in his mind he isn't going to go walk all the way back to the mailboxes and have a chance to miss Trayvon.

 

[RavenSky]

And for the other part about Zimmerman acting like Zimmerman from the past and future, if he did we wouldn't be talking about this situation. He's thrown things, punched people, shoved people, but yet during this accident he did not fight and did not punch Martin. If he had done those things then the outcome would have been different. It would have just been a fight.

So you have video of the night he killed Trayvon to say with such authority what Zimmerman did or did not do? Or are you just defending the killer again, excusing everything we know for a fact he did do that night to lead to the death of an innocent teenager.

Guess what, this thread isn't about that night. It is about George Zimmerman getting violent and aggressive with yet another person, a woman. Are you going to defend him for this incident too?

 

[RavenSky]

Occam's Razor strikes again.

This term does not mean what you seem to think it means.

 

[laughing dog]

In this one, where people don't want to say anything negative about kooky anti-gun paranoia, and so they insist that Mr. Foster had to be racially paranoid instead.

No one in this thread insisted any such thing. It was suggested as a possibility. So what universe are you talking about again?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

WEll, it is important to remember the timeline of Zimmerman's Fictional Account of that night.

This is before the 9/11 call is made public (the call where he indicates he is going after Martin). His original claim was he was checking for an address because he was such a humble and luvable Neighborhood Watchman and when he was getting back to his car, Martin came out and jumped him.

Zimmerman apologists want everyone to forget this pre-9/11 call release Fictional Account. It is what exposes Zimmerman as a fucking sociopathic liar.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Jimmy Higgins:
This is before the 9/11 call is made public (the call where he indicates he is going after Martin). His original claim was he was checking for an address because he was such a humble and luvable Neighborhood Watchman and when he was getting back to his car, Martin came out and jumped him revealing the trans-dimensional powers Purple Drank bestows upon Black teens: the ability to fold time and space to carry out burglaries and attack night watchmen.

Correct. This is how Martin was able to steal that load of jewels they found back in his school. Queen William V will not know the Crown Jewels are missing for another 35 years! Hence no police report. He then fenced them for money to buy the Purple Drank ingredients. Super intelligence in that one.

 

[Jayjay]

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I don't remember him saying that but probably he said a lot of things during his police interview and I'm not going to bother watching the whole thing again.

He said that Martin came back and circled his car. Another lie.

How do you know it was a lie? Martin could have circled his car, or he could have misremembered or misdescribed Martin just checking him out.

What, you think Martin was trying to buy his car? If you're trying to intimidate the driver, you don't walk around the car in a circle, you walk up to the driver's side and start banging on windows, yanking on door handles, yelling, and so on. The whole "He came back and circled my car, and I told that to dispatch." was my big clue what he wasn't merely a liar, but a grossly incompetent one.

Who said Martin was trying to intimidate Zimmerman? Martin may very well ahve made a full 360 degrees around the car, but even if he didn't, Zimmerman may have used the word "circle" to describe him walking near the car, without it being a bald faced lie, certainly nothing like the elaborate and intricate scenario that you are suggesting Zimmerman lied about.

He claimed that Martin made a 6-minute walk in two minutes, while walking slowly. Another lie.

I don't know what the heck you are talking about. What 6-minute walk?

Zimmerman gives a particular path that Martin took. He call given him approximately 2 minutes to make that walk before Zimmerman says "Shit, he's running" The walk would have taken 6 minutes at an average walking speed. This is impossible. This is why I rejected the idea of Martin "casing houses" - that would have made him even slower.

You do realize Zimmerman's observed Martin before he called 311, right? So of course, the time Zimmerman was on the call is shorter.

He said that he couldn't see an address from his car. Another lie.

He wasn't at his car.

That's exactly the problem. Zimmerman said that he was asked for an address on Twin Trees Lane while in his car, and that he couldn't see one. He was not asked for an address while in his car, there was an address directly in front of where he supposedly was, and he did not exit his vehicle to look for an address on Retreat View Circle.

He said he got out and walked to Retreat View Circle to find an address. Another lie.

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

Very simple. Why should we think he ran over to Retreat View Circle at all? For an address that he wouldn't be at? That makes no sense.

Memory is fallible. And you already admitted that Zimmerman is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so he may have misremembered when exactly he thought of looking at the address. Again, this is not an example of the kind of elaborate lie you are accusing Zimmerman of making.

He said that Martin was both punching him with objects, and simultaneously grabbed his head and slammed it against concrete. Another lie.

He also claimed that Martin saw the gun at his back, and shouted "You gonna die tonight, motherfucker!" Another lie.

For these two, he had a reason to lie. What you are suggesting though is that Zimmerman makes up nonsensical lies even when he doesn't have to.

And that appears to be exactly what he does.

No, it does not. What you and others who are making up these wildly fantastical scenarios about Zimmerman running around the neighbourhood undetected are suggesting that he made up the his entire story and that he is a complusive liar who regularly does this sort of thing. And the evidence for this is apparently that he got a few minor details wrong, that could easily be chalked up to bad memory. You have not established a pattern of pathological lying in the scale required by your scenario of Zimmerman lying about parking his car, or running down Twin Trees lane (or for Arctish's and RavenSky's favourite scenario of him running down Retreat View Circle for that matter).

WHen you throw Occam's Razor out the window, you could make up whatever crazy scenario you want. For example, how do you know Zimmerman had a car at all? Maybe he was on a bicycle. That would explain how he could get through the T to retreat View Circle, and intercept Martin to drive him back towards the T in the short time he had. This scenario is about as plausible as yours.

 

[Jayjay]

He told the police to call him, so he could tell them where he was. Presumably by telling them an address. So how is this a lie?

He told the police to call him back because he knew he plaNNED TO CHASE DOWN THE KID AND WASN't sure where he was going to be. He didn't need to "look for an address," he needed an excuse for why he followed the kid after being told not to. He knew he was going to follow, hence "call me later and I'll tell you where I am," and later came up with the looking for an address bullshit.

Point is, at some point Zimmerman was thinking of getting an address. When exactly that thought crossed his head is uncertain, at worst it's just lying about unverifiable motivations in his head which are impossible to prove right or wrong. Certainly a person who wants to cover his ass would be more likely to lie in a way that he doesn't get caught, and lying about one's motivations is the easiest way to do it.

The point here is that this is being used as evidence of Zimmerman being a compulsive liar who would make up elaborate scenarios about his whereabouts, knowing that even a single witness who happened to see him could send him to jail for a long time.

 

[ksen]

occam's razor says that a teenager minding his own business was shot to death and his killer is free on the street making life miserable for quite a number of people.

 

[Jayjay]

Occam's Razor strikes again.

This term does not mean what you seem to think it means.

Occam's Razor is that out of multiple explanations, the one that requires least amount of additional assumptions is likely to be true. If you have some other idea of what it means, do tell.

I have shown that your scenario of Zimmerman running around the townhouses to cut Martin off and chase him back to the T requires more additional assumptions than him simply staying at the T and Trayvon turning back on his own. So application of Occam's Razor in this case means that the latter scenario is more likely.