Yet another war, this time with Iran

[Harry Bosch]

Also, as to him being "long dead", he is the one who founded the so-called "Islamic Republic". And to my knowledge, no ayatollah after him abrogated Khomeini's pro-pedophilia teachings.

Why would a Muslim deny that? After all. Ayesha was 6 when married (Muhammad played with her dolls) and 9 when marriage was consummated?

For the same reason that Christians deny that the Bible condones slavery: Denial.

 

[Tigers!]

Stop this moral relativisation. It's like saying that Trump is just as bad is Hitler. No he's not. It's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I think you're better than this

He is just as bad. Israel would not have done this if it did not have the backing of US. How many killed (including civilians, women and children, how many houses destroyed, how many displaced? I am not supporting Hamas. The war will start again tomorrow, if not, then at a later time. This war is not going to end. And he has three more years. God alone knows what other wars he will bring about.

If this were purely about opposing brutal regimes, the list of targets would be a lot longer. The outrage seems to show up mainly when it aligns with U.S. strategic interests.

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.
Non-whites killing non-whites? Who cares? Not many it seems.

For example, actions like this incursion into Iran can just as easily be viewed as an effort to strengthen U.S. positioning in the region to counter

View attachment 54101

That’s also why I think U.S. support for Israel is driven heavily by strategy, not just shared values. That doesn’t make it illegitimate, but it does mean we should be honest about the geopolitical incentives and actually debate whether they still make sense.

And just to be clear, I support dismantling groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Ayatollah’s regime. But the moment I show any concern for civilians caught in the middle, suddenly I’m “pro-Hamas”? That leap makes no sense to folks not in their cult.

It is not being pro-Hamas to be rightly concerned about many aspects of Israeli policy in Gaza. It is pro-Hamas when all the ire is directed at Israeli without trying to stop Hamas in their actions.

Another thing, why do people even feel the need to constantly preface everything by saying they support Israel’s right to exist? When was the last time anyone had to clarify that they support other countries existing? It's a no brainer to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Far too many people do not support Israel's right to exist.

The “No other country is threatened with destruction” is a wild take too. They really think global rivals wouldn’t love to escort each other off the board.

 

[Gospel]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.
Non-whites killing non-whites? Who cares? Not many it seems.

I haven't seen much of that out of you. Does that mean you're antisemitic because I personally haven't seen it? Now magnify that and the whole world population can be said to be antisemitic. Yawl really need to get over it like black folks ought to get over slavery.

 

[bilby]

All countries have the right to exist.

No country has the right to expand.

Some countries may have justifications for expansion; If so, their leaders should sit down like grown-ups and explain why their expansion is justified, and an independent panel can listen to all parties to the disagreement and reach a consensus on new borders.

Where conflicts do arise, a powerful peacekeeping force from neutral countries should intervene and enforce non-violence.

That's how the UN was meant to work; Sadly the five permanent members of the Security Council make a mockery of the whole show, not least because they render the remaining nations of the world effectively irrelevant.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Trump is completey imcompetent. He lies on social media about what Iran did or did not agree to. He makes clear that he's despirate for a deal. He blows his stack, threatens genocide amd goes TACO.

Art of the deal, baby!!

 

[laughing dog]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.

The brutal killers in Sudan, Myanmar, etc… do not hide behind the veneer of moral justification nor do they many defending their actions.

 

[Tigers!]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.

The brutal killers in Sudan, Myanmar, etc… do not hide behind the veneer of moral justification nor do they many defending their actions.

And yet not many care.
Even on these fora a thread about Sudan will die of neglect very quickly

 

[Tigers!]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.
Non-whites killing non-whites? Who cares? Not many it seems.

I haven't seen much of that out of you. Does that mean you're antisemitic because I personally haven't seen it? Now magnify that and the whole world population can be said to be antisemitic. Yawl really need to get over it like black folks ought to get over slavery.

I have started a thread on Sudan. It died of neglect.
I have been active on the Gaza thread. Not much lately admittedly.

 

[aupmanyav]

Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc.

That will be a different topic. Start one, who stops you.

It is not being pro-Hamas to be rightly concerned about many aspects of Israeli policy in Gaza. It is pro-Hamas when all the ire is directed at Israeli without trying to stop Hamas in their actions.

Yes, Hamas, Iran also were wrong and so was the US.

Far too many people do not support Israel's right to exist.

They are hurt by what Israel has done since 1948.

 

[Gospel]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.
Non-whites killing non-whites? Who cares? Not many it seems.

I haven't seen much of that out of you. Does that mean you're antisemitic because I personally haven't seen it? Now magnify that and the whole world population can be said to be antisemitic. Yawl really need to get over it like black folks ought to get over slavery.

I have started a thread on Sudan. It died of neglect.
I have been active on the Gaza thread. Not much lately admittedly.

I was pointing out the issue with making broad generalizations based on anecdotal evidence, not criticizing you personally.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Funny

 

[SLD]

Now Iran has seized two ships and fired on a third. Some ships are getting through though. But it’s a trickle compared to before the war.

Trump will be fuming mad. Expect more ranting and raving. He will soon start firing generals and admirals.

 

[Gospel]

The outrage is two-sided.
Far too many of the deaths in Gaza are unwarranted.
Where is the outrage about the brutal killings in Sudan, Myanmar etc. Only seems to be a problem when it is Jews/Israelis/the west doing the killings.

The brutal killers in Sudan, Myanmar, etc… do not hide behind the veneer of moral justification nor do they many defending their actions.

And yet not many care.
Even on these fora a thread about Sudan will die of neglect very quickly

I’ve stepped away from discussing Sudan here and have been having those conversations on other platforms. I also left the “Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel” thread, as it seems some users have an aversion to engaging with historical context. It's the identifying as white pe-po thing that I can't stand around here.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Funny

Thank you for that.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What's wrong with wanting to wipe a terrorist organization that wants to exterminate you off the face of the Earth?

At the moment, Israel and US are no better.

While US and Israel are certainly no perfect, is it incredibly ignorant to say that they are "no better". They are many, many orders of magnitude better than IRGC and the islamofascist terror group it funds, arms and controls.

The depends entirely on what end of America's petrodollar system and guns you're on.

Stop this moral relativisation. It's like saying that Trump is just as bad is Hitler. No he's not. It's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I think you're better than this

I think you’re missing the point. Judgments like that depend a lot on where you’re standing. From the perspective of people who have been on the receiving end of U.S. foreign policy, the moral picture doesn’t look nearly as clear-cut.

That doesn’t mean I'm saying that “everyone is equally bad.” It means that’s Derek’s opinion, not a universal truth. Depending on where you’re standing, the “world police” doesn’t look as spotless as Derec's making it out to be.

You're acting like the USA could pass a criminal background check for the “world police” job and not have HR frightened to death halfway through its file.

I concede that it's better, but many of magnitudes?

USA is the most benign imperial power humanity has ever witnessed. Not to belabor the point, but living under the thumb of an imperial power has been the norm for humanity since Sargon of Akkad. The British empire being in close second place as far as benign imperial rulers go.

If we take imperialism as the historical norm, and that our choices are, "which imperial power would we like to live under the thumb of" USA wins every day. Imperial powers are, as a rule, horrific. The Assyrians would flay anyone who criticised them openly alive. And let them scamper off home without skin. The Aztecs would take enemy captives, flay them, and walk around in their skin, just to terrify their underlings. Egyptians would cut off the hands of anyone who complains. Yes, we've found the mass graves of these hands. The Mongols exterminated entire cities for minor infractions. That's how Bagdad went. The Romans famously "created a desolate depopulated wasteland and called it an empire". The Spanish empire in the Americas... better than the Aztecs or Incas... still horrific. The USSR, thought policing, and gulags. Muslim despots of the Middle-East, electrodes to the testicles of decenters.

And it's not like our choices are hypothetical either. We have some very clear contenders to imperial powers. It's now China or USA (Russia is now firmly under Chinese domination).

Who would you rather swung around their imperial dick smashing you in the face, China's or USA's? China has actual concentration camps.

If absolute power corrupts absolutely USA has managed to be the least corruptible power in human history. I think that's something to celebrate.

Sure, Trump is a horrific ogre of a man. But he's not as bad as the leaders of Iran, Russia, China or Venezuela. He's NOT Hitler. He's NOT a fascist. And he's not an autocrat. He could be so much worse, and still look good in comparrisson.

Imperial powers, historically, have been absolutely horrific. Great Britain created an imperial power that encouraged free thought which is awesome and amazing. USA continued the tradition. I don't think you quite apreciate how much we have to be grateful for because those two powers in particular shaped, and still shape, the modern world.

I also don't think you quite appreciate quite how evil authoritarian regimes tend to be and how normalised and systematic that evil is.

USA isn't perfect. Far from it. But it's good to have some perspective here.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What's wrong with wanting to wipe a terrorist organization that wants to exterminate you off the face of the Earth?

At the moment, Israel and US are no better.

While US and Israel are certainly no perfect, is it incredibly ignorant to say that they are "no better". They are many, many orders of magnitude better than IRGC and the islamofascist terror group it funds, arms and controls.

The depends entirely on what end of America's petrodollar system and guns you're on.

Stop this moral relativisation. It's like saying that Trump is just as bad is Hitler. No he's not. It's an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I think you're better than this

I think you’re missing the point. Judgments like that depend a lot on where you’re standing. From the perspective of people who have been on the receiving end of U.S. foreign policy, the moral picture doesn’t look nearly as clear-cut.

That doesn’t mean I'm saying that “everyone is equally bad.” It means that’s Derek’s opinion, not a universal truth. Depending on where you’re standing, the “world police” doesn’t look as spotless as Derec's making it out to be.

You're acting like the USA could pass a criminal background check for the “world police” job and not have HR frightened to death halfway through its file.

I concede that it's better, but many of magnitudes?

USA is the most benign imperial power humanity has ever witnessed.

That's like saying out of all priests who molested kids, Father MacRae gave them the most gifts.

Imperial powers, historically, have been absolutely horrific. Great Britain created an imperial power that encouraged free thought which is awesome and amazing. USA continued the tradition. I don't think you quite apreciate how much we have to be grateful for because those two powers in particular shaped, and still shape, the modern world.

Centuries ago, priests could probably just force molestations. We live in different times now. A lot more grooming happens and a lot more resistance. The behavior of priests over the centuries has been shaped by awareness and resistance, just like empires.