What does one Do in Heaven - a few answers

[Ramaraksha]

So Heaven is like an opium den?

No, picture the most ecstatic moment in an intense revival church. More like that all the time. I was religious once, and while my church didn't do that sort of thing, there were enough intense moments to convince me that religious ecstasy is quite real and this is a plausible scenerio: if one accepts the idea of Heaven to begin with, of course.
I've always thought this sort of argument is extremely feeble, and it is better to go hard at the idea that heaven is too good to be true, rather than to suggest that heaven might not be so great. After all, if you argue that heaven isn't so great, you are tacitly admitting the possibility of heaven. And the religious people have plenty of skilled arguers, from whom you can pick whichever you like. Dante beats Ramaraksha any day of the week.

Ideas that's all - all possibilities are being considered and given due respect. You have heard of Hindus talking about coming back as animals - well that is what ancient Hindus were saying - that Heaven - basically a place of pure joy and happiness - may just be a lower life form - my sister's cat does nothing all day - just eats, poops and sleeps, zero worries - is that the Heaven that people dream of?
What Hinduism is saying is that you are free to do whatever you want - just don't expect things to turn out so great sometimes
Want to drop out of school? Sure - you are an adult - do it. But if you find yourself living in the streets, begging for food, well, that's the path you chose

Heaven was the drug world of the drug-addict before drugs were discovered, the online fantasy world before computers were invented. Can we stop some people from checking out of real life and spending all their free time doing drugs or living in an alternate universe in an online world? Of course not - that is their choice

One can't stop people - and we are talking highly educated and intelligent - from hoping to live the easy good life after death - all we can do is to say things might not be as good as they think they might be. We learn from life that there are downsides and upsides in all professions - even movie stars have downsides - as we see today and how that young singer who was shot to death found out

The concept of Heaven comes with its own downsides - the acceptance of going back to being a child - being a dependent on someone else, running away from real life, from adulthood

The problem has been the silence of the educated, the philosopher, the Teacher, the media in asking such questions, discussing such ideas

 

[Ramaraksha]

Considering the lion and the lamb will lie down together, I'm thinking the lions are gonna need something else to eat.

There is no need of eating in Heaven.

It's something they come up with just to make themselves feel good - because such questions make them uncomfortable - if they say we eat, we enjoy the question naturally comes up - where is this food coming from? Well, God has to provide it - but does that mean God is running animal factory farms in heaven? If you go to PETA or some other animal welfare sites, you will see lots of videos of animal cruelty in such farms. So these poor animals can't escape suffering at our hands even in Heaven. God doesn't care about animal suffering? And such suffering will go on for eternity? And if we crunch some numbers - in another 100 years 1 - 6 billion more people will need to be fed - how many more animals will need to suffer and forever?

And so, well, no one needs to eat in heaven gives them a way out - that's all that is

 

[Sarpedon]

Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
And the religious people have plenty of skilled arguers, from whom you can pick whichever you like.
This is a laugh.

Dante also beats you any day of the week. If you play the word game with religious people, you lose every time.

 

[sharon45]

Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
And the religious people have plenty of skilled arguers, from whom you can pick whichever you like.
This is a laugh.

Dante also beats you any day of the week. If you play the word game with religious people, you lose every time.

The religious are losing against reality, not me, and I ain't playing word games.

 

[sharon45]

God doesn't care about animal suffering?

God has to obviously enjoy suffering of every kind, since He created it.

 

[Ramaraksha]

God doesn't care about animal suffering?

God has to obviously enjoy suffering of every kind, since He created it.

No, this is the question that we ask them - make them uncomfortable and they know that and that is why there is no eating in heaven. If they real food it is animal cruelty, if it is food without any pain caused to animals, is it really food, just some magic that they are ingesting? So, the safe way out is to never be hungry - never have the desire to eat because they are so hopped up with love for God, they don't need anything else

Over and over what scares me are the total lack of questions - one would think in the 21st century with so many bright and educated, people would be shooting questions left and right and we know religious people have zero answers, but the questions are never asked

 

[abaddon]

because such questions make them uncomfortable

Do they really? The questions strike me as just unimaginative, not discomforting.

if they say we eat... where is this food coming from? Well, God has to provide it - but does that mean God is running animal factory farms in heaven?

You keep trying to work out the mundane, work-a-day details of a material world that don't apply in a spirit world. To the extent they're hyper-literalist fundies they might share your limitation. But not otherwise.

And so, well, no one needs to eat in heaven gives them a way out - that's all that is

No. It's a spirit world and spirits do not need to eat. This is a widely know trait of magic realms. Eating's a pleasure in a spirit world, but where it comes from simply isn't a problem in a spirit world where the wave of a hand can produce what's wanted.

Are you swinging at low hanging fruit because that's the easy way to do this?

To critique something you have to present it as they present it, and not re-imagine their imagination in order to criticize your re-imagination but call it their imagination. That's not an honest criticism.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Do they really? The questions strike me as just unimaginative, not discomforting.
Are you swinging at low hanging fruit because that's the easy way to do this?
To critique something you have to present it as they present it, and not re-imagine their imagination in order to criticize your re-imagination but call it their imagination. That's not an honest criticism.

First line - that's your personal opinion, you are entitled to it

To be fair - are you a theist or an Atheist?

As they say the devil is in the details and that is what i want people to do - ask for details - over and over - what does one DO in heaven? It's a spirit world - you say they don't eat, i assume they don't DO anything either? So they just hang around? float around doing nothing? Staring at each other?
And this is what we should all aspire to? Look forward to? live as Ghosts? Do you not see Ghosts in such an imaginary?

I just can't wrap my head why God would want to maintain such a world. What is the whole point? What is the purpose of billions of ghosts just floating around for all eternity?

 

[bilby]

Heaven is like where you are now, but much, much better.
- Laurie Anderson

Which is better? A happy pig or an unhappy Socrates?
- John Stuart Mill

Maybe God makes souls in heaven stupid but happy.

Unhappy Socrates - any day

Nah, you can't make a bacon sandwich from an unhappy Socrates.

At least, not without attracting unwanted police attention.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering the lion and the lamb will lie down together, I'm thinking the lions are gonna need something else to eat.

Perhaps Socrates could step up?

 

[bilby]

God has to obviously enjoy suffering of every kind, since He created it.

No, this is the question that we ask them - make them uncomfortable and they know that and that is why there is no eating in heaven. If they real food it is animal cruelty, if it is food without any pain caused to animals, is it really food, just some magic that they are ingesting? So, the safe way out is to never be hungry - never have the desire to eat because they are so hopped up with love for God, they don't need anything else

Over and over what scares me are the total lack of questions - one would think in the 21st century with so many bright and educated, people would be shooting questions left and right and we know religious people have zero answers, but the questions are never asked

You keep saying that, "the questions are never asked", as though you really do live under a rock. Those questions are constantly being asked, and have been asked so often that they are no longer particularly interesting. The religious people have their standard 'answers', which satisfy them, but don't satisfy anyone who approaches the subject rationally; You cannot reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into, so the questions are futile, unsatisfying and rapidly abandoned - but they are asked at least a few times by almost every new atheist who comes along. The difference between them and you is that they usually have sufficient experience to know that the questions have been asked before, or sufficient humility to realize that if a question is bloody obvious, they probably are not the first or only person to ask it.

 

[bilby]

Do they really? The questions strike me as just unimaginative, not discomforting.
Are you swinging at low hanging fruit because that's the easy way to do this?
To critique something you have to present it as they present it, and not re-imagine their imagination in order to criticize your re-imagination but call it their imagination. That's not an honest criticism.

First line - that's your personal opinion, you are entitled to it

To be fair - are you a theist or an Atheist?

As they say the devil is in the details and that is what i want people to do - ask for details - over and over - what does one DO in heaven? It's a spirit world - you say they don't eat, i assume they don't DO anything either? So they just hang around? float around doing nothing? Staring at each other?
And this is what we should all aspire to? Look forward to? live as Ghosts? Do you not see Ghosts in such an imaginary?

I just can't wrap my head why God would want to maintain such a world. What is the whole point? What is the purpose of billions of ghosts just floating around for all eternity?

The details of a fictional world are of interest only to its fans.

If you are disinterested by Harry Potter, why do you care what colour his dorm room at Hogwarts is painted? If you ask a Potter fan, and they don't know, had never really given it much thought, or tell you that they have their own guess (but no scriptural/textual backing for it), then what have you achieved? We all know that it's fiction. And any hypothetical extreme Potter fan who has lost sight of the fact that it is fiction, is not going to come back to their senses because someone points out that they don't know what colour the walls of Harry's Hogwarts dorm room are.

Your entire approach here is deeply flawed.

 

[funinspace]

There is no need of eating in Heaven.

It's something they come up with just to make themselves feel good - because such questions make them uncomfortable - if they say we eat, we enjoy the question naturally comes up - where is this food coming from? Well, God has to provide it - but does that mean God is running animal factory farms in heaven? If you go to PETA or some other animal welfare sites, you will see lots of videos of animal cruelty in such farms. So these poor animals can't escape suffering at our hands even in Heaven. God doesn't care about animal suffering? And such suffering will go on for eternity? And if we crunch some numbers - in another 100 years 1 - 6 billion more people will need to be fed - how many more animals will need to suffer and forever?

And so, well, no one needs to eat in heaven gives them a way out - that's all that is

Though the Christian Bible barely speaks of what goes on in heaven, it does talk of eating.

Some of the few things on the ToDo & NotToDo list...Yippy feasts and wine, it is probably more of sneed than a need:
Lk 22:18 “For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes."
Lk 22:28-30 “You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom…”
Revelation 21:4 “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
Mt 22:30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.”

 

[funinspace]

I memorize the words to the porno movies...

Masturbate to Christian trombone solos. Stop complaining.

Only if I can do it naked in space with my music headphones on

 

[sharon45]

God has to obviously enjoy suffering of every kind, since He created it.

No, this is the question that we ask them - make them uncomfortable and they know that and that is why there is no eating in heaven. If they real food it is animal cruelty, if it is food without any pain caused to animals, is it really food, just some magic that they are ingesting? So, the safe way out is to never be hungry - never have the desire to eat because they are so hopped up with love for God, they don't need anything else

Over and over what scares me are the total lack of questions - one would think in the 21st century with so many bright and educated, people would be shooting questions left and right and we know religious people have zero answers, but the questions are never asked

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Can souls in heaven look at what is going on at Earth below? Are they unable to help or affect what goes on on Earth? Are they sad they cannot help? If I was in heaven and could not help, I would be pissed at God.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Can souls in heaven look at what is going on at Earth below? Are they unable to help or affect what goes on on Earth? Are they sad they cannot help? If I was in heaven and could not help, I would be pissed at God.

And if they can affect what goes on on Earth, why are there billions of people who have zero problems with sitting watching someone rape a child without doing something about it?

 

[funinspace]

Can souls in heaven look at what is going on at Earth below? Are they unable to help or affect what goes on on Earth? Are they sad they cannot help? If I was in heaven and could not help, I would be pissed at God.

You can't be sad nor really care, you will be effectively lobotomized. Now do these 'souls' get to see the Earth Channel, no clue as that topic isn't in the 2,000 year old fan-fiction...

Revelation 21:4 “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

You stand in one place, wave a palm branch and sing 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of Sabaoth' for ever and ever. After a few years, your cerebrum dies of boredom and the rest of the brain carries on singing 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God of Sabaoth'.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[sharon45]

Can souls in heaven look at what is going on at Earth below? Are they unable to help or affect what goes on on Earth? Are they sad they cannot help? If I was in heaven and could not help, I would be pissed at God.

It doesn't make any sense that people can be sad or mad in Heaven, but it also doesn't make any sense that people can be sad and mad here either.

 

[Ramaraksha]

The details of a fictional world are of interest only to its fans.
If you are disinterested by Harry Potter, why do you care what colour his dorm room at Hogwarts is painted? If you ask a Potter fan, and they don't know, had never really given it much thought, or tell you that they have their own guess (but no scriptural/textual backing for it), then what have you achieved? We all know that it's fiction. And any hypothetical extreme Potter fan who has lost sight of the fact that it is fiction, is not going to come back to their senses because someone points out that they don't know what colour the walls of Harry's Hogwarts dorm room are.
Your entire approach here is deeply flawed.

Is it a fictional world to Theists? Of course not - to them it is the next world after this - even after all the evidence provided by Darwin we still have kooks looking for the Ark - crazy. I actually saw a TV show where this guy goes all the way to Ireland(i guess he had a generous budget) to interview a Priest who thinks - get this - that God is the missing piece of our knowledge! Sheesh! Any fool could have told him that - Yes sir God of the Gaps - we don't know what happened before the Big Bang & yep there He is

We are not talking about people who are willing to admit that religion is fictional. As far as Atheists go all they say is that there is no evidence for God or the Heavens - and it is easily countered by religious people saying Science does not have all the answers, which it doesn't

So how do we prove that religion and its promises are fictional? By asking lots of questions - same way you spot a liar - if someone is lying about living in France - how do you prove he is lying? Easy, ask him about landmarks or the language - sooner or later he will slip up

And to me religion is much, much easier - far too easy - every question that i ask they don't know - they don't have a clue

What Does one DO In heaven? If babies or children are killed, do they grow up in heaven without parents? Do they eat in heaven? Where do they stay? Does everyone gets the same house since there can't be divisions in heaven - does this mean living in heaven would be like living in a Communist country? If the bread-winner dies and his family is fighting for their lives in the hospital does he stop caring? Is he having fun in heaven while his wife is going crazy trying to hold the family together? if a grandson is lost in the forest, slowly starving to death crying for his mommy, is Grandpa in Heaven having a grand old time?

Lots and lots of questions that they can't answer because they have no clue and even if they dare not try because that exposes their lies