What does one Do in Heaven - a few answers

[Ramaraksha]

One spends eternity worshiping a god...

To me true worship is done with action, not words, as they say talk is cheap - how many of those caught in the news today exposed as pedophiles & abusers have gone to places of worship and sung praises of God?

A musician or dancer using their craft is worshipping God, one might say. Doing good in the world, helping others, upholding Truth is also a form of worship & that is done right here. I don't see God wanting millions or is it billions now sitting around singing his praises - that is a King/Master - and we know that these religions were born when Kings ruled and we see the idea of God being a King. Very simple and primitive ideas

 

[funinspace]

Heaven says you can stay a kid forever! God will shield you from having to face life - that contradicts everything you have learned in life

One of the ironic things about heaven is that the American style evangelicals/fundagelicals really are in denial about their heaven construct. They intend to see their loved ones/spouses in heaven, yet the NT makes it clear in this area (one of the very few items that the NT talks about heaven details), that you won't be 'married'; and you won't shed any tears for those being tortured in their God's eternal Auschwitz, not their unbelieving children, siblings, close friends, uncles, aunts....cuz you have been lobotomized.

So, since there is no evidence for Heaven or Reincarnation, could these just be metaphors? Heaven is the metaphor for the Womb, Childhood, the nest and the Past. Reincarnation stands for Life, REAL LIFE, Adulthood and the Future.

Thanks for the direct answer! I guess that is one way of looking at both notions. However, lots of (different groups) people really think they both are quite real...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think I'm going to go with Learner here on this. Can you state clearly whether or not you believe in some sort of reincarnation process of 'souls', whether it is some sort of naturalistic system or Hindu religious one? I see lots of words, but very little clear thought...

As you dis Christians to 'prove' their god/heaven, if you believe in reincarnation, I'd say you are in the same row boat. We know people die. What we don't know is if there is this thingy called a soul; and nor do we know anything about what happens to this purported 'soul' after death of the body. That is what atheists typically 'know'.

Of course Reincarnation simply cannot compete with the notion of Heaven - an easy life of doing nothing, enjoying the good life vs having to grow up, get a job, work to death - who wants that? I am not asking Christians to prove heaven, i already know that there is no proof, what i am asking does it make sense? Does it make sense that we think we get to sit and do nothing for eternity? some being has nothing better to do than cater to billions, keep us in comfort? And where is our self-respect in this? The only way i can think of it happening is for us to come back as pets or trees or bugs - get the easy life that we want

My point is that as Science and Atheists keep reminding us, we don't have any evidence of God or the easy life Heavens. This is ALL there is - no heaven, no hell, no God. And when we look at life down here what do we see - all animals, all creatures spend but a few years being taken care of by their parents, happy in the nest, but eventually we all have to grow up, move out of the nest, make a living, stand on our own two feet. Face the world and all its problems - Terrorism, climate change, what is going on in the nation and the world, will that nut in North Korea launch a strike?, poverty, disease - we face all that and we try our best to shield our kids from all this

Heaven says you can stay a kid forever! God will shield you from having to face life - that contradicts everything you have learned in life

So, since there is no evidence for Heaven or Reincarnation, could these just be metaphors? Heaven is the metaphor for the Womb, Childhood, the nest and the Past. Reincarnation stands for Life, REAL LIFE, Adulthood and the Future.

I am just shocked that no philosopher or psychologist has never seen the connection between Heaven and the womb, childhood. Freaks me out as i realize the power of religion to brainwash even the best of us

Well, I suppose people will believe what they want to believe. Heaven and reincarnation are simply two different ways of trying to deny the reality of death. Neither is intellectually honest.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Heaven says you can stay a kid forever! God will shield you from having to face life - that contradicts everything you have learned in life

One of the ironic things about heaven is that the American style evangelicals/fundagelicals really are in denial about their heaven construct. They intend to see their loved ones/spouses in heaven, yet the NT makes it clear in this area (one of the very few items that the NT talks about heaven details), that you won't be 'married'; and you won't shed any tears for those being tortured in their God's eternal Auschwitz, not their unbelieving children, siblings, close friends, uncles, aunts....cuz you have been lobotomized.

So, since there is no evidence for Heaven or Reincarnation, could these just be metaphors? Heaven is the metaphor for the Womb, Childhood, the nest and the Past. Reincarnation stands for Life, REAL LIFE, Adulthood and the Future.

Thanks for the direct answer! I guess that is one way of looking at both notions. However, lots of (different groups) people really think they both are quite real...

what is shocking to me is the lack of questions - whether it is while watching a show or in print, religious people are never asked the tough questions. Over and over it is - what will heaven be like? - How about what do we DO all day in Heaven? Do we eat? if so does that mean poor animals get to suffer at our hands for eternity? Do babies get born in heaven? And if no one dies are we talking a trillion people now in heaven?

And questions like - what about the loved ones back home? How are they getting on without you? It seems no one cares. Guy dies he is the bread-winner - wife running around going crazy how she is going to pay the bills, keep kids in school etc and the guy is enjoying cake in heaven? Grandson is lost in the forest, dying of hunger and thirst, crying for his mommy and Grandpa is enjoying watching the cubs play in heaven?

 

[steve_bank]

One spends eternity worshiping a god...

To me true worship is done with action, not words, as they say talk is cheap - how many of those caught in the news today exposed as pedophiles & abusers have gone to places of worship and sung praises of God?

A musician or dancer using their craft is worshipping God, one might say. Doing good in the world, helping others, upholding Truth is also a form of worship & that is done right here. I don't see God wanting millions or is it billions now sitting around singing his praises - that is a King/Master - and we know that these religions were born when Kings ruled and we see the idea of God being a King. Very simple and primitive ideas

Christians invent their morality presuming to know what god wants. The Vatican has been spinning theology with no biblical basis for over 1000 years.
One thing they all believe in is the resurrection of the body in some ill defined existence for eternity.

Jefferson was a deist who believed he'd be reunited with family.

The Jesus message was endure suffering, you will have an eternal reward.

As I remember you are from Florida, get thru it ok?

 

[Ramaraksha]

Christians invent their morality presuming to know what god wants. The Vatican has been spinning theology with no biblical basis for over 1000 years.
One thing they all believe in is the resurrection of the body in some ill defined existence for eternity.
Jefferson was a deist who believed he'd be reunited with family.
The Jesus message was endure suffering, you will have an eternal reward.
As I remember you are from Florida, get thru it ok?

I think you have me confused with someone else - have never even been to Florida much less hail from there

Reincarnation to me is a different viewpoint - asking not you will get, but what you can give. It's a totally different mind-set. For centuries life has been harsh & violent - what's that guy say, Hobbes? - life is poor, nasty, brutish, short? Religions gained converts by promising an eternal easy life in the sky. By saying you have to come back - Reincarnation - Hinduism is going against the grain - naturally the idea fell out of favor esp for those religions intent on conversions - you won't get converts by saying you come back to a harsh life, you get converts by telling people that there is a nice reward - the eternal easy good life among your loved ones. "Heaven will be more wonderful than you can imagine" - easy promises that everyone knows that there is no way to check or verify or have any knowledge of - but everyone simply closes their mind and plays the game

I can't see it happening - the only way i see it is if i come back as a lower life form - cat, dog, a tree or a plant - then i will get the easy life of zero worries and doing nothing.

 

[Atheos]

This thread is like watching someone argue that Dracula makes perfectly good sense but Superman is preposterous. After all, Dracula gets his power by drinking other people's blood and turns into a bat when he wants to fly. Superman has no means of thrust with which to generate lift. Therefore Dracula is scientifically valid and Superman is not.

 

[funinspace]

This thread is like watching someone argue that Dracula makes perfectly good sense but Superman is preposterous. After all, Dracula gets his power by drinking other people's blood and turns into a bat when he wants to fly. Superman has no means of thrust with which to generate lift. Therefore Dracula is scientifically valid and Superman is not.

You left out the fact that vampires have a much deeper and richer literary history

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This thread is like watching someone argue that Dracula makes perfectly good sense but Superman is preposterous. After all, Dracula gets his power by drinking other people's blood and turns into a bat when he wants to fly. Superman has no means of thrust with which to generate lift. Therefore Dracula is scientifically valid and Superman is not.

Well, they do have a point.