Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't trust that anyone or any group could have all the answers. That's why I try to use my own intuition after listening to all sides, which has never failed me when making big decisions.

Never failed you??? No, you simply conclude you're right.

Look at the measles death rate. Your own sources have given it to you, but you don't believe it because that would mean you position is wrong.

There are different stats on how many children have died from measles in a first-world country. Some say 1 in 1,000, others say 1 in 10,000.

No. The stats from the time soon before the vaccine was introduced was 1 in 1,000. Nobody's presented anything else. In the far past it was 1 in 10,000--which only makes sense if 9 of the 10 victims would have died from something else before there were any vaccines. Doesn't mean they didn't die, though--pre-vaccine mortality to preventable diseases was well above 1 in 1,000. There is absolutely no reason to think we wouldn't go back to that state without the vaccines.

 

[peacegirl]

I don't trust psychiatry because all they do is prescribe drugs with no talk therapy, and usually after a 30-minute consult. The whole profession has changed, and some people have been hurt rather than helped.

That's not all they do.

I think basically that is what they do. They dispense meds.

Because most of the therapy is done by psychologists. A psychologist is going to be as good or better than a psychiatrist at talking and less expensive because they don't have all the training in how the body works. They likely have both psychiatrists and psychologists in the same office.

Unfortunately, they do tend to do it too much because therapy is expensive (takes a lot of high skill time.) And it isn't easy for the patient.

It might not be easy but it helps get to the root of the problem rather than covering it over with drugs that can add another layer of difficulty when trying to get off of them.

If the problem is wrong thought patterns. All the talk in the world can't do much of anything when the problem is biochemical in nature.

It's far more a system problem than a psychiatrist problem.

I agree. It always goes back to money.

No. Patients often want a solution now and they want an easy solution. Therapy is neither now or easy. And it's not just the patients--courts keep sentencing people to rehab for drug related stuff. Nope, until the patient truly wants to quit it won't work.

That goes without saying!

 

[peacegirl]

This may interest some. A lot can be learned from animal science.

 

[peacegirl]

It's not as black and white as you think. After listening to the doctor and to all the other literature out there, I cannot say with total confidence that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is safe for everyone. It's not a one-size-fits-all. I just read from a study thatater risk of diabetes in children over 2 months but not those younger than 2 months. Is this just an association, or is there some validity to it? There are a lot of unknowns.

Public should be told that vaccines may have long term adverse effects - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, you're comparing to a perfect situation.

With total confidence I can say that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is not safe for everyone. The thing is we know attenuated vaccines are risky in those with compromised immune systems.

And we also have the mortality rates before/after each vaccine was introduced.

The fact that something isn't safe for everyone doesn't mean it's safe for nobody. I'm sensitive to the standard tablet binders--does that mean nobody should be allowed to take tablets??

Of course not, you just have to take a tablet that isn't manufactured with a tablet binder. The risk of vaccines may be small, but because there is a risk at all, it needs to be a parent's decision. If there were no risks, it would be a different narrative. That's what it really boils down to. It's a personal choice. You can think a person is irrational if they don't vaccinate, but once parents have done their due diligence, they will make an informed decision that they believe is best for their children. Parents are fierce protectors of their offspring, and they will not be intimidated by pro-vaccinators who tell them they're baby killers.

And by what magic does a tablet exist without a binder?? I sure have never seen one.

I guess it depends on the drug and how it's manufactured.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Not all tablets contain tablet binders; their inclusion depends on the formulation and manufacturing method.

Role​

Tablet binders are inactive ingredients (excipients) that act as adhesives to hold the active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) and other excipients together, forming a cohesive solid tablet. They improve tablet integrity, uniformity, and compressibility, ensuring tablets do not break or crumble during handling, packaging, and storage. Binders also facilitate granulation, which enhances powder flow and compressibility, critical for consistent tablet weight and drug content.

Colorcon+3

Types​

Binders can be natural (e.g., starch, acacia, gelatin), synthetic or semi-synthetic (e.g., hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, polyvinylpyrrolidone, polyethylene glycol), or sugars (e.g., sucrose),. They may be added in dry form or as a solution during wet granulation, dry granulation, or direct compression processes.

PharmaEducation+2

Are​

While binders are common in most tablets, they are not strictly required in every formulation. Some tablets, especially those designed for direct compression, may use directly compressible excipients that provide sufficient cohesion without additional binders. In such cases, the powder blend itself may have adequate flow and compressibility, eliminating the need for a separate binder. However, tablets with poorly flowing or low-compressibility powders almost always require binders to maintain structural integrity.

LFA Tablet Presses+1

Summary​

• Binders are essential for tablets that need improved cohesion, flow, and compressibility.
• Not all tablets require binders; some formulations rely on directly compressible excipients or other manufacturing techniques.
• The decision to include a binder depends on tablet composition, desired release profile, and manufacturing method.
  
  3
  
  
  In conclusion, while tablet binders are widely used to ensure tablet quality and stability, their presence is not universal, and some tablets can be manufactured successfully without them.

And that's not even relevant--what my point was is that just because something is problematic for some people doesn't mean it's not generally acceptable. The local grocery sells beef. That could kill someone with alpha gal. Should it be forbidden? Alpha gal can be transmitted by the bite of the Lone Star tick. (It's not an infection, when the body reacts to the bite it can become sensitized to a protein in red meat.)

Obviously, if you have an allergic reaction to something, you stay away from it. So what you're saying is that the vaccine schedule is perfectly fine for most people until proven otherwise. So, according to you, the risks are very small except for those who get the bullet in this lethal game of chance. According to you and others, that's a risk worth taking, right? Is the person who gets the bullet considered collateral damage that couldn't be helped?

And anyone who has done their due diligence and whose child doesn't have a reason against a vaccine will make the choice to vaccinate. The odds ratio is huge, no sane person who actually understood the facts would choose otherwise.

And let's look at your paper. Who do the authors work for? "Classen Immunotherapies". Yikes, major conflict of interest. And what about the guy?

J. Bart Classen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How much money do you think he makes versus the vaccine manufacturers? Is there a comparison? I haven't read this yet, but I'm curious what they have to say.

The Vaccine Racket, Part 3: Taking on the Medical Mafia

Three families, silenced doctors, and the lawsuit challenging the most powerful institution in pediatric medicine

open.substack.com

Why does the amount of money even matter? It's money per person, not money total.

And he's trying to shake down the vaccine manufacturers with a garbage patent.

And your link is to a known quack.

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[Jimmy Higgins]

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure....

For a person who isn't sure... you certainly post otherwise

I am not responsible for young children anymore, so this issue is not a pressing issue for me, although I have grandchildren who still get vaccinated. This thread started because Pood tried to discredit me by saying I started a vaccine thread on another forum which was predominantly anti-vaccine, knowing full well how people in this forum would react. I was then encouraged to start a thread here, not realizing it would cause this much backlash.

Advocating for children to become more sick is worthy of backlash... and that should be expected.

But what about the unvaccinated children who are doing just fine?

Sick children aren't fine. Chicken Pox and Measles used to be a disease typically all children would get. So you are easily encouraging children to get sick.

Why should you be concerned if most children are vaccinated? Are you upset that the unvaccinated are getting the benefits of the vaccinated? What is it? The unvaccinated can't hurt your vaccinated child, so why can't you let it go?

Oh cool, the argument has switched allegedly from science (*insert baseless Youtube video*) to an attack on me being overbearing. Adorable! I can see the need for you to make the emotional ploy because you have no science to back your repugnant stance that sick children are "doing just fine".

I'm not an anti-vaxxer as much as I question everything that could possibly cause unintended harm.

Interesting, do you have bridges to sell me too?

I'm not selling anti-vaccine or vaccine rhetoric;

Abusing the metaphor there. You aren't selling it, you are giving it away for free.