Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

[Loren Pechtel]

Some ADHD drugs can be strong, some aren't and are metabolized rather quickly.

The best way to go is to see a QUALIFIED person called psychiatrist and let them make a judgment, rather than listen to anyone online because they heard something.

I can't wait for autism to be even in higher rates in 20 years, despite the lower rates of vaccination. I can't wait for the obfuscation then!

Nah, it's going to "work". Autism rates will pretty much zero out. What's the point of a diagnosis that will only harm you?

 

[peacegirl]

I’m curious if anyone would watch the MAHA movie coming out?

Watch The Official Maha™ Movie

For Those Tired Of Dismissing Doctors, Big Pharma, And Greedy Insurance Giants... This Is The Health Documentary With Real Solutions... That The Establishment Doesn'T Want You To See. Watch The Official Maha™ Movie Now

secure.mahamovie.com

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure how many injections are needed to keep a child healthy in a first world country where many deadly diseases have been eradicated due to higher income, good nutrition, better sanitation, better pest control, lower infection rates, safer food storage, better medical and dental care, access to clean water, cleaner air, less indoor and outdoor pollution, better work environments, better hygiene, etc. which they didn't have back in the day.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’m curious if anyone would watch the MAHA movie coming out?

Watch The Official Maha™ Movie

For Those Tired Of Dismissing Doctors, Big Pharma, And Greedy Insurance Giants... This Is The Health Documentary With Real Solutions... That The Establishment Doesn'T Want You To See. Watch The Official Maha™ Movie Now

secure.mahamovie.com

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure....

For a person who isn't sure... you certainly post otherwise

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't trust psychiatry because all they do is prescribe drugs with no talk therapy, and usually after a 30-minute consult. The whole profession has changed, and some people have been hurt rather than helped.

That's not all they do. Unfortunately, they do tend to do it too much because therapy is expensive (takes a lot of high skill time.) And it isn't easy for the patient. It's far more a system problem than a psychiatrist problem.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't trust that anyone or any group could have all the answers. That's why I try to use my own intuition after listening to all sides, which has never failed me when making big decisions.

Never failed you??? No, you simply conclude you're right.

Look at the measles death rate. Your own sources have given it to you, but you don't believe it because that would mean you position is wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not as black and white as you think. After listening to the doctor and to all the other literature out there, I cannot say with total confidence that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is safe for everyone. It's not a one-size-fits-all. I just read from a study that there is a greater risk of diabetes in children over 2 months but not those younger than 2 months. Is this just an association, or is there some validity to it? There are a lot of unknowns.

Public should be told that vaccines may have long term adverse effects - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, you're comparing to a perfect situation.

With total confidence I can say that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is not safe for everyone. The thing is we know attenuated vaccines are risky in those with compromised immune systems.

And we also have the mortality rates before/after each vaccine was introduced.

The fact that something isn't safe for everyone doesn't mean it's safe for nobody. I'm sensitive to the standard tablet binders--does that mean nobody should be allowed to take tablets??

And let's look at your paper. Who do the authors work for? "Classen Immunotherapies". Yikes, major conflict of interest. And what about the guy?

J. Bart Classen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[peacegirl]

I’m curious if anyone would watch the MAHA movie coming out?

Watch The Official Maha™ Movie

For Those Tired Of Dismissing Doctors, Big Pharma, And Greedy Insurance Giants... This Is The Health Documentary With Real Solutions... That The Establishment Doesn'T Want You To See. Watch The Official Maha™ Movie Now

secure.mahamovie.com

Your ignorance is breathtaking.

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure....

For a person who isn't sure... you certainly post otherwise

I am not responsible for young children anymore, so this issue is not a pressing issue for me, although I have grandchildren who still get vaccinated. This thread started because Pood tried to discredit me by saying I started a vaccine thread on another forum which was predominantly anti-vaccine, knowing full well how people in this forum would react. I was then encouraged to start a thread here, not realizing it would cause this much backlash. I'm not an anti-vaxxer as much as I question everything that could possibly cause unintended harm. I understand that walking out of one's house could be harmful if you get struck by lightning. I just try to minimize the risks, as do you. Vaccines are believed to minimize risks. I understand that, but I still wonder if all these vaccines are necessary for health, and whether they could be contributing to other health conditions down the road. The studies say no, but I don't necessarily put all my faith in the studies. That's why RFK Jr. is repeating them with an independent panel that has no conflict of interest. If they are replicated with the same positive results, then it will help the vaccine industry tremendously.

 

[bilby]

I try to use my own intuition

I cannot say with total confidence

There are a lot of unknowns.

I'm just not sure

I still wonder if all these vaccines are necessary

You give a very strong set of arguments why nobody should listen to your opinions on this topic.

You admit to knowing nothing; So why are you still posting?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure....

For a person who isn't sure... you certainly post otherwise

I am not responsible for young children anymore, so this issue is not a pressing issue for me, although I have grandchildren who still get vaccinated. This thread started because Pood tried to discredit me by saying I started a vaccine thread on another forum which was predominantly anti-vaccine, knowing full well how people in this forum would react. I was then encouraged to start a thread here, not realizing it would cause this much backlash.

Advocating for children to become more sick is worthy of backlash... and that should be expected.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer as much as I question everything that could possibly cause unintended harm.

Interesting, do you have bridges to sell me too?

 

[peacegirl]

It's not as black and white as you think. After listening to the doctor and to all the other literature out there, I cannot say with total confidence that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is safe for everyone. It's not a one-size-fits-all. I just read from a study thatater risk of diabetes in children over 2 months but not those younger than 2 months. Is this just an association, or is there some validity to it? There are a lot of unknowns.

Public should be told that vaccines may have long term adverse effects - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, you're comparing to a perfect situation.

With total confidence I can say that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is not safe for everyone. The thing is we know attenuated vaccines are risky in those with compromised immune systems.

And we also have the mortality rates before/after each vaccine was introduced.

The fact that something isn't safe for everyone doesn't mean it's safe for nobody. I'm sensitive to the standard tablet binders--does that mean nobody should be allowed to take tablets??

Of course not, you just have to take a tablet that isn't manufactured with a tablet binder. The risk of vaccines may be small, but because there is a risk at all, it needs to be a parent's decision. If there were no risks, it would be a different narrative. That's what it really boils down to. It's a personal choice. You can think a person is irrational if they don't vaccinate, but once parents have done their due diligence, they will make an informed decision that they believe is best for their children. Parents are fierce protectors of their offspring, and they will not be intimidated by pro-vaccinators who tell them they're baby killers.

And let's look at your paper. Who do the authors work for? "Classen Immunotherapies". Yikes, major conflict of interest. And what about the guy?

J. Bart Classen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How much money do you think he makes versus the vaccine manufacturers? Is there a comparison? I haven't read this yet, but I'm curious what they have to say.

The Vaccine Racket, Part 3: Taking on the Medical Mafia

Three families, silenced doctors, and the lawsuit challenging the most powerful institution in pediatric medicine

open.substack.com

 

[peacegirl]

I try to use my own intuition

True.

I cannot say with total confidence

True,

There are a lot of unknowns.

Yes.

I'm just not sure

I still wonder if all these vaccines are necessary

I still do.
You give a very strong set of arguments why nobody should listen to your opinions on this topic.

I'm not asking anyone to listen. I'm just thinking out loud. I would never tell anyone what to do. I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving them wrong advice by telling them they should or should not vaccinate. That needs to be up to them alone.

You admit to knowing nothing; So why are you still posting?

You love to twist my words. I know a lot of things, but I am ignorant of some things, which we all are. You should try being honest with yourself sometime. It's refreshing. You asked me why I'm still posting. Why shouldn't I post in response to others? If they don't want to engage, then the thread will die.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How much money do you think he makes versus the vaccine manufacturers? Is there a comparison? I haven't read this yet, but I'm curious what they have to say.

The Vaccine Racket, Part 3: Taking on the Medical Mafia

Three families, silenced doctors, and the lawsuit challenging the most powerful institution in pediatric medicine

open.substack.com

Remember, she isn't "anti-vaccine".

 

[peacegirl]

Why? Understanding both sides will give me greater clarity!

Except every time you're shown anything you disagree with you fail to actually incorporate it into your world view. You're looking for confirmation of your beliefs, not the truth.

That isn't true. I'm just not sure....

For a person who isn't sure... you certainly post otherwise

I am not responsible for young children anymore, so this issue is not a pressing issue for me, although I have grandchildren who still get vaccinated. This thread started because Pood tried to discredit me by saying I started a vaccine thread on another forum which was predominantly anti-vaccine, knowing full well how people in this forum would react. I was then encouraged to start a thread here, not realizing it would cause this much backlash.

Advocating for children to become more sick is worthy of backlash... and that should be expected.

But what about the unvaccinated children who are doing just fine? Why should you be concerned if most children are vaccinated? Are you upset that the unvaccinated are getting the benefits of the vaccinated? What is it? The unvaccinated can't hurt your vaccinated child, so why can't you let it go? Parents are doing their very best.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer as much as I question everything that could possibly cause unintended harm.

Interesting, do you have bridges to sell me too?

I'm not selling anti-vaccine or vaccine rhetoric; I am just thinking out loud, trying to understand both sides. Vaccines should be an easy sell, but they're not in the present milieu. I would never tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving them wrong advice, either to get their children vaccinated or not. One of my granddaughters got RSV as a baby, and it was scary. I would consider this vaccine if it were proven to be safe and effective. As I said, I'm on the fence regarding the entire vaccine schedule, not all vaccines.

RSV Immunization Guidance for Infants and Young Children

Immunization guidance for healthcare providers for the use of infant RSV antibodies

www.cdc.gov

 

[peacegirl]

I don't trust psychiatry because all they do is prescribe drugs with no talk therapy, and usually after a 30-minute consult. The whole profession has changed, and some people have been hurt rather than helped.

That's not all they do.

I think basically that is what they do. They dispense meds.

Unfortunately, they do tend to do it too much because therapy is expensive (takes a lot of high skill time.) And it isn't easy for the patient.

It might not be easy but it helps get to the root of the problem rather than covering it over with drugs that can add another layer of difficulty when trying to get off of them.

It's far more a system problem than a psychiatrist problem.

I agree. It always goes back to money.

 

[peacegirl]

I don't trust that anyone or any group could have all the answers. That's why I try to use my own intuition after listening to all sides, which has never failed me when making big decisions.

Never failed you??? No, you simply conclude you're right.

Look at the measles death rate. Your own sources have given it to you, but you don't believe it because that would mean you position is wrong.

There are different stats on how many children have died from measles in a first-world country. Some say 1 in 1,000, others say 1 in 10,000.

 

[bilby]

Why shouldn't I post in response to others? If they don't want to engage, then the thread will die.

...like an unvaccinated child.

 

[peacegirl]

Why shouldn't I post in response to others? If they don't want to engage, then the thread will die.

...like an unvaccinated child.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not as black and white as you think. After listening to the doctor and to all the other literature out there, I cannot say with total confidence that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is safe for everyone. It's not a one-size-fits-all. I just read from a study thatater risk of diabetes in children over 2 months but not those younger than 2 months. Is this just an association, or is there some validity to it? There are a lot of unknowns.

Public should be told that vaccines may have long term adverse effects - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, you're comparing to a perfect situation.

With total confidence I can say that there is definitive proof that the vaccine schedule is not safe for everyone. The thing is we know attenuated vaccines are risky in those with compromised immune systems.

And we also have the mortality rates before/after each vaccine was introduced.

The fact that something isn't safe for everyone doesn't mean it's safe for nobody. I'm sensitive to the standard tablet binders--does that mean nobody should be allowed to take tablets??

Of course not, you just have to take a tablet that isn't manufactured with a tablet binder. The risk of vaccines may be small, but because there is a risk at all, it needs to be a parent's decision. If there were no risks, it would be a different narrative. That's what it really boils down to. It's a personal choice. You can think a person is irrational if they don't vaccinate, but once parents have done their due diligence, they will make an informed decision that they believe is best for their children. Parents are fierce protectors of their offspring, and they will not be intimidated by pro-vaccinators who tell them they're baby killers.

And by what magic does a tablet exist without a binder?? I sure have never seen one.

And that's not even relevant--what my point was is that just because something is problematic for some people doesn't mean it's not generally acceptable. The local grocery sells beef. That could kill someone with alpha gal. Should it be forbidden? Alpha gal can be transmitted by the bite of the Lone Star tick. (It's not an infection, when the body reacts to the bite it can become sensitized to a protein in red meat.)

And anyone who has done their due diligence and whose child doesn't have a reason against a vaccine will make the choice to vaccinate. The odds ratio is huge, no sane person who actually understood the facts would choose otherwise.

And let's look at your paper. Who do the authors work for? "Classen Immunotherapies". Yikes, major conflict of interest. And what about the guy?

J. Bart Classen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How much money do you think he makes versus the vaccine manufacturers? Is there a comparison? I haven't read this yet, but I'm curious what they have to say.

The Vaccine Racket, Part 3: Taking on the Medical Mafia

Three families, silenced doctors, and the lawsuit challenging the most powerful institution in pediatric medicine

open.substack.com

Why does the amount of money even matter? It's money per person, not money total.

And he's trying to shake down the vaccine manufacturers with a garbage patent.

And your link is to a known quack.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Advocating for children to become more sick is worthy of backlash... and that should be expected.

But what about the unvaccinated children who are doing just fine? Why should you be concerned if most children are vaccinated? Are you upset that the unvaccinated are getting the benefits of the vaccinated? What is it? The unvaccinated can't hurt your vaccinated child, so why can't you let it go? Parents are doing their very best.

We should be concerned for multiple reasons, all of which have been explained:

1) Most vaccines don't work if given too early. Kids under that point are protected by herd immunity only. Break that herd immunity, they start dying.

2) No vaccine is 100% effective. This year the influenza vaccine doesn't cover the new mutation--the vaccine reduces severity but doesn't do much to keep you from getting sick. And Covid is currently running around 50% against infection, but well above that against severe infection. In both cases the vaccinated very well might get sick, but they're a lot less likely to die (but not 0%--some will still die.)

3) Parents are listening to woo, they are not doing their best.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer as much as I question everything that could possibly cause unintended harm.

Interesting, do you have bridges to sell me too?

I'm not selling anti-vaccine or vaccine rhetoric; I am just thinking out loud, trying to understand both sides. Vaccines should be an easy sell, but they're not in the present milieu. I would never tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving them wrong advice, either to get their children vaccinated or not. One of my granddaughters got RSV as a baby, and it was scary. I would consider this vaccine if it were proven to be safe and effective. As I said, I'm on the fence regarding the entire vaccine schedule, not all vaccines.

RSV Immunization Guidance for Infants and Young Children

Immunization guidance for healthcare providers for the use of infant RSV antibodies

www.cdc.gov

They would be a trivially easy sell if it weren't for the murderers promoting their woo. And the eugenics crowd that wants to kill off the vulnerable to make us "stronger".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't trust psychiatry because all they do is prescribe drugs with no talk therapy, and usually after a 30-minute consult. The whole profession has changed, and some people have been hurt rather than helped.

That's not all they do.

I think basically that is what they do. They dispense meds.

Because most of the therapy is done by psychologists. A psychologist is going to be as good or better than a psychiatrist at talking and less expensive because they don't have all the training in how the body works. They likely have both psychiatrists and psychologists in the same office.

Unfortunately, they do tend to do it too much because therapy is expensive (takes a lot of high skill time.) And it isn't easy for the patient.

It might not be easy but it helps get to the root of the problem rather than covering it over with drugs that can add another layer of difficulty when trying to get off of them.

If the problem is wrong thought patterns. All the talk in the world can't do much of anything when the problem is biochemical in nature.

It's far more a system problem than a psychiatrist problem.

I agree. It always goes back to money.

No. Patients often want a solution now and they want an easy solution. Therapy is neither now or easy. And it's not just the patients--courts keep sentencing people to rehab for drug related stuff. Nope, until the patient truly wants to quit it won't work.