Science Says Toxic Masculinity — More Than Alcohol — Leads To Sexual Assault

[ruby sparks]

Toxic masculinity pisses me off big time. It's a royal pain in the ass and very unfortunate (and that's putting it mildly).

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I also want to say something anecdotally. Toxic masculinity pisses me off big time. It's a royal pain in the ass and very unfortunate (and that's putting it mildly).

Anecdotally speaking, my father was one of those people who thought crying was bad, and not befitting of a man and that I needed to be "tough". So he taught me to not cry. To this day it's very difficult for me to ever cry, and I'm sure it's not very emotionally healthy to have difficulty crying. I'm also sure his method of teaching me that contributed to my social anxiety, since there was a fear response involved. Not to mention that he was an alcoholic.

 

[ruby sparks]

I also want to say something anecdotally. Toxic masculinity pisses me off big time. It's a royal pain in the ass and very unfortunate (and that's putting it mildly).

Anecdotally speaking, my father was one of those people who thought crying was bad, and not befitting of a man and that I needed to be "tough". So he taught me to not cry. To this day it's very difficult for me to ever cry, and I'm sure it's not very emotionally healthy to have difficulty crying. I'm also sure his method of teaching me that contributed to my social anxiety, since there was a fear response involved. Not to mention that he was an alcoholic.

I think many men, at least of my generation (I'm not sure what age you are, I'm nearly 59) have similar tales to tell, but not all, so you were unlucky. Personally, I was much closer to my mum, who was warm and loving, than my dad (who was emotionally distant, suffering from lifelong depression, and alcoholism, though otherwise doesn't sound like yours).

I'd guess that stuff happened to your dad to partly 'make' him that way. I'm not saying that made it any less harmful and painful for you, obviously. It's a great pity and you have my sympathies and I'm sure it's been hard.

 

[ruby sparks]

Anecdotally, I nearly got the shit kicked out of me last week at basketball practice because some other guy 'saw the red mist' after a disagreement about a minor foul or two (one by him, one by me, the latter of which I put my hand up and acknowledged straight off) and other players had to literally drag him away. The guy is no stranger to such things, albeit this was the worst I'd seen and it was no fun being on the receiving end of it. As someone who also plays soccer, I could talk of similar incidents in both sports, not necessarily involving me. As someone whose wife played competitive team sport (netball) at a fairly high local level and whose daughter plays competitive field hockey at a similarly high local level, I know that it's not just men's sports in which aggressive behaviour 'goes over the top', but it mostly is.

And in many ways, I'm lucky, being a man and physically quite fit, and I don't live in a 'bad neighbourhood' so I can avoid a lot of potentially dangerous situations. If push comes to shove, I can at least try to fight back (or leg it away fairly fast) and unless I end up in prison I'm unlikely to be targeted for sexual assault or rape. I do have to go around with an eye open for toxic male behaviour, but nowhere near as much as most women do. I don't feel I need to take a taxi home late at night rather than walk the streets, and whatever means I use to get home, generally no one feels they need to text me later to see if I got home ok, and so on.

 

[ruby sparks]

I'm pretty sure oxytocin is produced when we are in love, and I've read oxytocin also makes us more trusting of others, so that would explain that.

I think there is some evidence of that, yes. I have even heard that it can be bought in liquid, tablet or (nasal) spray form, along with claims that it will assist in dating (see article below). I would not even be surprised if it is also sometimes administered to potential dates surreptitiously.

Can Oxytocin Get Me A Boyfriend?
https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/can-oxytocin-get-me-boyfriend#page-3

 

[untermensche]

This is not learned behavior.

It is like talking about toxic dogality when a dog bites.

This is a failure to learn something. Self control.

The impulse to take what you want is natural.

 

[ruby sparks]

It is like talking about toxic dogality when a dog bites.

Whataboutism!

(Kidding, kidding).

 

[ruby sparks]

Reading up a bit more, it seems the correlation between testosterone and behaviour relates mainly to things such as assertiveness, confidence, domination, risk-taking and also anger (though not in what we might call a strong way at 'normal' levels) but not so much to violence. Another chemical, corticosterone, is associated with aggression and violence, but it is not normally (I read) expressed in sufficient quantities in humans to exert a strong influence. Also, like testosterone, I believe, its expression is a two-way street, in that behaviour (eg handling a gun) can result in its expression as well as perhaps its expression resulting in handling a gun.

Another possible chemical influence on aggression that has been suggested and studied is a lack of serotonin, apparently (I am nowhere remotely near being an expert).

Hormones are not generally allowed as a defence in court. There have been, in the UK, in the 1980's I believe, a small number of cases where women have had a sentence downgraded from murder to manslaughter because of severe PMS. As far as I could see, there have been no cases of a similar thing being acceptable for a male condition (although I read that Oscar Pistorius was alleged to have been taking testosterone supplements). I suspect that's partly because PMS can be much more severe than any male counterpart condition, but in principle it does make one wonder if in some extreme cases of male behaviour.....

Now, I would say that whatever it was that happened to that guy who attacked me on the basketball court last week, it appeared to me from looking into his eyes (which were pretty darn close to mine) that he had badly 'lost it', lost control. Maybe he had had a really bad day, maybe he's had and is having a really bad life for all I know (I don't know him that well). Maybe he carries a lot of testosterone or corticosterone or suffers from a severe lack of oxytocin, serotonin and dopamine or something. Or maybe not. But it does raise the question of just how strong an influence something (something that is not someone's fault, such as how they were brought up or their biology) has to be before we allow mitigation and sympathy. Some say that we should always try to be as sympathetic as is reasonable, and always at least a bit sympathetic, and I am one of those people, regardless of the sex of, or anything else about the 'bad' person.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yet freak out you would if one here spoke of "Toxic Blackness". A problem of prejudice you would see.

Would that be ghetto culture?

Imo yes it could be.

Nor does this necessarily need to become particularly controversial vis a vis principles of racism, imo. But it could be controversial. On the one hand, 'blackness' is merely a skin colour. On the other hand, it is sometimes meant culturally, by anyone who uses it that way, including by black-skinned people.

Note: "culture". I'm specifically referring to the culture.

For starters, we have, or at least used to have, ghettoes here in NI, and they are ghettoes of (almost entirely) white people, as it happens (or to put it another way the segregation involved was not along racial lines). Somewhere else, the ghettoes, or a specific ghetto, might be predominantly brown-skinned people, somewhere else they may be predominantly black-skinned people, or people of for instance a particular religion.

Not comparable. You're simply looking at poor people, not the total mess that I'm referring to.

 

[ruby sparks]

Note: "culture". I'm specifically referring to the culture.

Sure.

For starters, we have, or at least used to have, ghettoes here in NI, and they are ghettoes of (almost entirely) white people, as it happens (or to put it another way the segregation involved was not along racial lines). Somewhere else, the ghettoes, or a specific ghetto, might be predominantly brown-skinned people, somewhere else they may be predominantly black-skinned people, or people of for instance a particular religion.

Not comparable. You're simply looking at poor people, not the total mess that I'm referring to.

Of course they're all comparable. And no I'm not just looking at poverty. Poverty is just one of a number of common factors/features of what are called ghettoes. Lawlessness, violence, gang culture or drug culture, for example, are others (and those aren't restricted to ghettoes of mainly.....any one skin colour). Of course no one ghetto or type of ghetto is exactly like another.

Incidentally, ours, here, were often 'no go' areas for police, and involved our version of gangs (paramilitaries) and drug dealing. And when I said 'brown skin' I was thinking of, for example, urban ghettoes in parts of South America. Ghettoes with a religious aspect might be slightly different, but not so different in some ways. Think of areas of cities which are said to be breeding grounds for (Islamic) terrorism for example. I'm not sure if you have many of those in the USA, but other countries do, in Western Europe for example.

Even Gaza has been described as a sort of ghetto, though it arguably doesn't fit the definition.

As far as wider analogies go, ghettoes have been described as being prisons, of a kind (without actual physical walls and bars).

 

[thebeave]

Looks like Toxic Masculinity is the trendy topic of the day. Gillette just put out a short film about "toxic masculinity", that is not being well received. Over 3 million views in less than two days, with 50,000 likes and 287,000 dislikes. Pretty odd for a company to demonize and shame their primary customers and somehow expect them to want to run out and buy their products. I don't think this is going to end well for Gillette. And apparently, the director of the film is a fairly hardcore feminist. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Virtue signalling can backfire. But it can also be very profitable.

By the way, why do we have a thread on toxic masculinity and one on toxic femininity, but all the other genders are left out. We are not being very inclusive.

 

[thebeave]

Virtue signalling can backfire. But it can also be very profitable.

By the way, why do we have a thread on toxic masculinity and one on toxic femininity, but all the other genders are left out. We are not being very inclusive.

Well, that would be over 50 new threads. I don't think this little forum could keep up. Besides, new genders would be invented while we're discussing the old ones, so it would really get out of hand.

 

[ruby sparks]

Good on Gillette. I'll be buying Gillette from now on. Can't think of a good reason not to. Thanks for posting. I hadn't seen the ad.

 

[ruby sparks]

I see that the director, Kim Gehrig, also directed one of my fave recent videos, for the song, 'Like Sugar', sung by Chaka Khan (which is so extremely awesome I'm posting it below even though it's off topic). And also the John Lewis xmas ad last xmas, which was very good, imo. I also really liked the 'This Girl Can' adverts. She's clearly a very talented director, imo. I would not be surprised if she eventually moves into full length feature films.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RecY5iZn6B0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[TSwizzle]

Looks like Toxic Masculinity is the trendy topic of the day. Gillette just put out a short film about "toxic masculinity", that is not being well received. Over 3 million views in less than two days, with 50,000 likes and 287,000 dislikes. Pretty odd for a company to demonize and shame their primary customers and somehow expect them to want to run out and buy their products. I don't think this is going to end well for Gillette. And apparently, the director of the film is a fairly hardcore feminist. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!

Nah. This is another cynical ploy by advertisers to stir up a bit of controversy that will last a week or two before it slips away to be forgotten. Nobody really gives a shit apart from dumb keyboard warriors on Twatter and AM radio talk shows. And I doubt their heart is in it anyway. It's similar to the Kardashian kid and the Pepsi ad, or was it Coke ? that caused a the Twatterati to lose their shit.

 

[blastula]

Looks like Toxic Masculinity is the trendy topic of the day. Gillette just put out a short film about "toxic masculinity", that is not being well received. Over 3 million views in less than two days, with 50,000 likes and 287,000 dislikes. Pretty odd for a company to demonize and shame their primary customers and somehow expect them to want to run out and buy their products.

Their primary customers are abusers and criminals?

 

[Worldtraveller]

Looks like Toxic Masculinity is the trendy topic of the day. Gillette just put out a short film about "toxic masculinity", that is not being well received. Over 3 million views in less than two days, with 50,000 likes and 287,000 dislikes. Pretty odd for a company to demonize and shame their primary customers and somehow expect them to want to run out and buy their products.

Their primary customers are abusers and criminals?

I was gonna ask something similar. I think it says more about the typical people that hang out and like/dislike youtube videos. Ask most any woman who even dares to broach the subject. The whiny manbabies don't like their privilege being threatened.

So for those on here who would 'dislike' that video. Can you clearly state what aspect of it you dislike? Is it the part where they say men should be responsible for their actions? Maybe it was the part where we shouldn't just ignore bad behavior because it's a male doing said behavior? I know...it was the part where they said you should treat women with respect as if they are actually people? That's gotta be it.

 

[ruby sparks]

I feel I should make it clear that I already only use Gillette razors.

Not the ones with 47 blades, 14 types of lubricant and no doubt soon if not already a computer, that cost £185 each, just the basic ones @ 10 razors for £2.

 

[steve_bank]

An obscure like says science says. There is no science there, only conjecture. Looks like a progressive rag.

I could do a study on toxic femininity and manage to call it science. All's I need to do is find some conservatives with academic science credentials who are misogynistic. Then write an article claiming science shows female toxicity causes violence by provoking men.

Men and women are different. Perhaps we should genetically engineer the race to be asexual

The cultural roots of male attitudes are deep. I have been watching old movies on TCM. Slapping and pushing women around is normal. Both James Cagney and Clark Gable made their male images in scenes slapping women around.

Listen to the music and watch the movies today.

Barbara Walters did an interview with Sean Connery where he said it was appropriate to physically hit a woman if she 'goes too far'.

There was a video game targeted at kids where you got points for rape. Don't rtemeber if it got pulled or not.

Kids are growing up being conditioned by music, TV, and movies. That is where the issue is. There is nothing in the mediums that present a healthy balanced view of sexually relations except for a few family shows. Hyper sex. TV male supplement ads that say if you can't have sex 24/7 on demand you are less of a man. Being a man is defined by the amount of sex you have.

Guys are out to seduce women who resist and must be seduced, The cool guy always wins a seduction.