You are not baptized - aka superstition run amok

[T.G.G. Moogly]

All baptisms performed by Phoenix priest invalid because he changed one word​

​

My Goodness. If a person ever needed proof that religious behavior borders on insanity he only need read the article. The magic spell didn't work because the incantation used a wrong word. Seriously, when I first read the title of the article I thought it must be something from The Onion. Is god laughing more at the mistake or his followers stupidity in believing that something so unimportant is actually incredibly important?

Again, goodness, gracious, etc.

"This determination was made after careful study by diocesan officials and through consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome," he wrote.

Arango, who has been practicing as a priest for more than two decades, used the phrase “We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," instead of "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

As a rational person I can only see this as a form of mass psychosis, not to mention embarrassment by those who are more mature in their lives and developed in their religious undertakings.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, this is strategic.
By using 'we' he made the witnesses part of the baptismal process. Not just something a priest and a priest alone can accomplish.
This is a step towards anarchy. Or bankruptcy.
Seriously, if they ever decide to read that verse about 'wherever three of y'all are gathered, we got us a church,' and decide they don't need an intercessor, much less an intercessor organization. Then the flow of money to the holy coffers starts to drop off precipitously.

Then their only hold on people will be the monopoly they have on cemeteries.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

No, this is strategic.
By using 'we' he made the witnesses part of the baptismal process. Not just something a priest and a priest alone can accomplish.
This is a step towards anarchy. Or bankruptcy.
Seriously, if they ever decide to read that verse about 'wherever three of y'all are gathered, we got us a church,' and decide they don't need an intercessor, much less an intercessor organization. Then the flow of money to the holy coffers starts to drop off precipitously.

Then their only hold on people will be the monopoly they have on cemeteries.

I totally get what you are saying - on multiple levels. The problem is that devout believers who take this announcement seriously do not get what you are saying. If I take this announcement seriously it merely proves that I am not a person of faith that believes in an alleged divine being but just another fearful loon attracted to belief in cult magic and bizarre rituals.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, this is strategic.
By using 'we' he made the witnesses part of the baptismal process. Not just something a priest and a priest alone can accomplish.
This is a step towards anarchy. Or bankruptcy.
Seriously, if they ever decide to read that verse about 'wherever three of y'all are gathered, we got us a church,' and decide they don't need an intercessor, much less an intercessor organization. Then the flow of money to the holy coffers starts to drop off precipitously.

Then their only hold on people will be the monopoly they have on cemeteries.

I totally get what you are saying - on multiple levels. The problem is that devout believers who take this announcement seriously do not get what you are saying. If I take this announcement seriously it merely proves that I am not a person of faith that believes in an alleged divine being but just another fearful loon attracted to belief in cult magic and bizarre rituals.

It could go either way.
He's been baptizing for 20 years, so there's got to be some death rate. Their survivors are now faced with either accepting that their deceased loved ones are not saved and went to Hell, or choosing to justify another view. "We did everything WE needed to, so God will take that into account...."
Which decreases the authority of the RCC a little bit.

 

[steve_bank]

Sounds like an auto recall. Instead of the brakes not working, your prayers may not work. Outside of Catholicism this woud be consdered evil magic casting of spells.

A good example of the placebo effect and religion. People felt like they were baptized.

Naybe the pope should say. " It is the thought that counts and I am sure god understands. Not to worry".

If you were married in the church abd it is invalid then you have been fornicating.

It is all about the supremacy and authority of the pope second only to god.

"Through the Sacraments, God shares his holiness with us so that we, in turn, can make the world holier," the conference says on its website.

 

[Bomb#20]

No, this is strategic.
By using 'we' he made the witnesses part of the baptismal process. Not just something a priest and a priest alone can accomplish.
This is a step towards anarchy. Or bankruptcy.

Or schism. He used the Royal We. Next thing you know he's declaring himself Pope and moving to Avignon.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Popefight! Popefight!

Yeah, that'll put a nice cap on the shitshow...

 

[abaddon]

It must be more than strategic. If they wanted to be strategic about it, they could tell him to start saying "I" (speaking for Jesus) and let it go at that. Instead they stirred up a lot of shit which will do nothing to consolidate their priestly power. Seems to me they must really believe this mistake has made their spell ineffective, else why do anything more than just tell the priest to start casting the spell with the correct pronoun?

 

[steve_bank]

Thanks for starting my day with a good laugh.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Seems to me they must really believe this mistake has made their spell ineffective, else why do anything more than just tell the priest to start casting the spell with the correct pronoun?

it's nothing to do with what THEY think. It's what they want the congregation to think. And they cannot pretend that the word is meaningless, or that failure to do it THE RIGHT WAY for 20 years hasn't had consequences.

They constantly push the message that 'you won't get into Heaven without us.'

A number of my relatives have gone on missions in Europe where they almost had success in recruitment. But no matter how appealing anyone found the Mormon religion, the flat truth was that the RCC owns all the cemeteries and only the Faithful get buried there. So, no sale. Not only are you not getting into heaven, you're going to miss a good Christain burial.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Sounds like an auto recall. Instead of the brakes not working, your prayers may not work. Outside of Catholicism this woud be consdered evil magic casting of spells.

A good example of the placebo effect and religion. People felt like they were baptized.

Naybe the pope should say. " It is the thought that counts and I am sure god understands. Not to worry".

If you were married in the church abd it is invalid then you have been fornicating.

It is all about the supremacy and authority of the pope second only to god.

Let's think about this for a second.

The princes of the church are telling their subjects that their baptisms are not valid because a specific word was changed, that one of the princes fucked it up. They're peddling the woo that their words actually have more power than the great and powerful woo itself that rules them all. Does that make any sense?

It only makes sense in that it demonstrates that there isn't a great woo, that it's just a profitable dog and pony show, a purely business enterprise that sustains itself on its ability to fleece the ring-kissers.

And I'd have to look it up in the RCC Catechism but I believe a person can receive the sacrament of baptism by intent. This happens when one of the ring-wearers isn't available and a baptism is sincerely wished for. In other words the great woo that rules us all understands and accepts baptism in such a situation.

So the ring-wearers don't want the ring-kissers to be able to baptize themselves.

 

[DBT]

The Creator of the Universe is such a Stickler for Detail, one Word out of place and you are Toast....

 

[steve_bank]

The Creator of the Universe is such a Stickler for Detail, one Word out of place and you are Toast....

Yes, it sounds like a movie where am all powerful ruler chops off a head for making a gamataical mistake.

 

[Hermit]

 

[Elixir]

The Creator of the Universe is such a Stickler for Detail, one Word out of place and you are Toast....

Yes, it sounds like a movie where am all powerful ruler chops off a head for making a gamataical mistake.

Or a typo?

 

[SLD]

Does a baptism cost anything? First Communion? Other sacraments? I smell a money making scheme.

 

[steve_bank]

The Creator of the Universe is such a Stickler for Detail, one Word out of place and you are Toast....

Yes, it sounds like a movie where am all powerful ruler chops off a head for making a gamataical mistake.

Or a typo?

I have diabetic nephropathy. Reading for me even with magnification is difficult. Glasses do mot help. I don't always pick up typos and the spell checker underlines.

 

[Politesse]

God, how I despise supernatural pettiness. The RCC leadership and I have been on the outs for several years, but this kind of bullshit helps maintain that status quo, Francis or no. Hell, it wakes up the dormant cradle Lutheran within me. I don't even worship with the Lutherans anymore, but this sort of nonsense takes me right back to confirmation class and that quiet revolutionary fire they keep carefully tucked away behind the nervous smiles and the lutefisk. Who the hell do these bishops think they are, to tell us what form of baptism God does or does not accept? They do not create the baptism, they only administer it, and even proper Roman Catholic doctrine has always been that any sacrament performed in extremis is valid. Remember when they used to use this as an excuse to kidnap Jewish babies who had supposedly been baptized by their nursemaids? How is that okay but a priest accidentally using the wrong formula is not?

It also doesn't make sense that they are "generously" offering to correct the error. This error, if it is a true error, cannot be corrected. Some of those affected will surely have died before the "fix" could be offered, and of those who haven't, many of them may well have taken Communion by now, which is considered a mortal sin if you aren't baptized for the same bullshit reasons as the above. When I was enrolled at a parochial school briefly in my teenage years, I was assured most solemnly upon enrolling that I would burn in hell if I tried to take the Eucharist along with my Catholic fellow-students at Wednesday mass, as my own baptism had been performed outside of the RCC. I was "allowed" (again with the faux generosity) to go forward and receive a blessing at Communion time, as long as I kept my arms folded over my chest to mark myself as a unwashed heretic.

 

[Elixir]

The Creator of the Universe is such a Stickler for Detail, one Word out of place and you are Toast....

Yes, it sounds like a movie where am all powerful ruler chops off a head for making a gamataical mistake.

Or a typo?

I have diabetic nephropathy. Reading for me even with magnification is difficult. Glasses do mot help. I don't always pick up typos and the spell checker underlines.

Thanks for 'splaining that, Steve. I have long wondered... at first I thought you simply had no regard for your readers.
I'll stop complaining about your typos now...

 

[steve_bank]

God, how I despise supernatural pettiness. The RCC leadership and I have been on the outs for several years, but this kind of bullshit helps maintain that status quo, Francis or no. Hell, it wakes up the dormant cradle Lutheran within me. I don't even worship with the Lutherans anymore, but this sort of nonsense takes me right back to confirmation class and that quiet revolutionary fire they keep carefully tucked away behind the nervous smiles and the lutefisk. Who the hell do these bishops think they are, to tell us what form of baptism God does or does not accept? They do not create the baptism, they only administer it, and even proper Roman Catholic doctrine has always been that any sacrament performed in extremis is valid. Remember when they used to use this as an excuse to kidnap Jewish babies who had supposedly been baptized by their nursemaids? How is that okay but a priest accidentally using the wrong formula is not?

It also doesn't make sense that they are "generously" offering to correct the error. This error, if it is a true error, cannot be corrected. Some of those affected will surely have died before the "fix" could be offered, and of those who haven't, many of them may well have taken Communion by now, which is considered a mortal sin if you aren't baptized for the same bullshit reasons as the above. When I was enrolled at a parochial school briefly in my teenage years, I was assured most solemnly upon enrolling that I would burn in hell if I tried to take the Eucharist along with my Catholic fellow-students at Wednesday mass, as my own baptism had been performed outside of the RCC. I was "allowed" (again with the faux generosity) to go forward and receive a blessing at Communion time, as long as I kept my arms folded over my chest to mark myself as a unwashed heretic.

Why are you invoking god?