Science Says Toxic Masculinity — More Than Alcohol — Leads To Sexual Assault

[steve_bank]

The Connery interview. Connery was a male image in my generation.

http://www.sickchirpse.com/sean-connery-sexist/

https://www.wired.com/2007/03/the-day-sean-co/



Forget Bond, this one minute clip of Barbara Walters interviewing a matter-of-fact Sean Connery about whether women sometimes "jush need a little shlap" is the most entertaining moment in the latter's career. In fact, the rumor is it's the reason Sir Sean was knighted: the Queen was afraid he'd belt her one if she didn't.

I especially love the subtle undercurrent of physical threat in the interview. Barbara fixates on a statement Connery made in the past about how sometimes he thinks it's okay to slap a woman. Connery tries to sort of wave away the question, but Walters keeps on asking, "You think it's good to hit a woman? Huh? Do you?" She just won't let it go.

Connery tenses like a lion, and holding Barbara's eyes with his cruel, steely gaze, he responds. "I haven't changed my opinion... sometimes women just won't leave things alone... Then, I think it's absolutely right."

It's at that precise moment that you realize the only thing stopping Sean Connery from launching to his feet and kicking Barbara Walter's teeth down her throat is the rolling camera.
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If you are a parent do you limit what your kids consume? Is ho's and bitches ok?

 

[ruby sparks]

I was gonna ask something similar. I think it says more about the typical people that hang out and like/dislike youtube videos. Ask most any woman who even dares to broach the subject. The whiny manbabies don't like their privilege being threatened.

Personally, I would not use the word manbabies. It risks feeding into gender stereotypes in a way that could be described as harmful and unfair.

So for those on here who would 'dislike' that video. Can you clearly state what aspect of it you dislike? Is it the part where they say men should be responsible for their actions? Maybe it was the part where we shouldn't just ignore bad behavior because it's a male doing said behavior? I know...it was the part where they said you should treat women with respect as if they are actually people? That's gotta be it.

I do personally agree that it seems odd to object to something that we should surely all applaud and that many men and indeed many men's groups also agree we should strive for, for the benefit of all.

At the same time, I can see how it might at least partly validly be perceived as a general, negative assessment of men. But imo possibly an over-reaction to reject it. As one commenter put it, if the suggestion that men should be nicer threatens your sense of being a man, you may be doing it wrong.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Hey guys I have a solution to your misunderstanding of the phrase "toxic masculinity". Masculinity can be healthy. It can also be unhealthy. It isn't always unhealthy. When it is unhealthy, it is toxic. Whoaaaaaaaaa. Amazing. Something could be healthy and unhealthy? Whoa. That's just too hard to understand.

(Cue angry people perceiving this as a personal attack).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hey guys I have a solution to your misunderstanding of the phrase "toxic masculinity". Masculinity can be healthy. It can also be unhealthy. It isn't always unhealthy. When it is unhealthy, it is toxic. Whoaaaaaaaaa. Amazing. Something could be healthy and unhealthy? Whoa. That's just too hard to understand.

(Cue angry people perceiving this as a personal attack).

*triggered*

BWAH!!!!!

 

[Trausti]

 

[ruby sparks]

Just an anecdotal example. An awful case, reported in our local news here, of an elderly man horribly assaulting his 62 year old wife:

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/belfast-oap-jailed-prolonged-attack-15732516

"The prosecutor said Cairns launched the unprovoked attack after the couple had spent the evening watching TV and consuming a moderate amount of alcohol. As she went to bring the dog in from the back at around 11pm, she was "attacked without any reason or trigger" in the kitchen.

The court was told Cairns grabbed his wife by her hair, flung her sideways then started banging her head off a radiator. At this point, she felt blood on her scalp, and her husband continued the assault by trailing her around by her hair.

Mr Purvis added: "She tried to escape but the front door was locked. She tried to get up the stairs, but he pulled her back then repeatedly punched and kicked her in the hallway."

The prosecutor said that at one point, she tried to calm her husband down, but he told her he felt she had dictated and ruined his life, and she had no respect for him."

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"Jealousy of strong men" lmao. Great straw man. Since you're unaware of this logical fallacy:

an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Now can we get back to accurately representing peoples' arguments instead of childish bullshit?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Nothing could possibly go wrong by only reinforcing aggression and "toughness" in men. Nothing at all.

 

[ronburgundy]

An obscure like says science says. There is no science there, only conjecture. Looks like a progressive rag.

I could do a study on toxic femininity and manage to call it science. All's I need to do is find some conservatives with academic science credentials who are misogynistic. Then write an article claiming science shows female toxicity causes violence by provoking men.

Men and women are different. Perhaps we should genetically engineer the race to be asexual

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The cultural roots of male attitudes are deep. I have been watching old movies on TCM. Slapping and pushing women around is normal. Both James Cagney and Clark Gable made their male images in scenes slapping women around.

Listen to the music and watch the movies today.

Barbara Walters did an interview with Sean Connery where he said it was appropriate to physically hit a woman if she 'goes too far'.

There was a video game targeted at kids where you got points for rape. Don't rtemeber if it got pulled or not.

Kids are growing up being conditioned by music, TV, and movies. That is where the issue is. There is nothing in the mediums that present a healthy balanced view of sexually relations except for a few family shows. Hyper sex. TV male supplement ads that say if you can't have sex 24/7 on demand you are less of a man. Being a man is defined by the amount of sex you have.

Guys are out to seduce women who resist and must be seduced, The cool guy always wins a seduction.

??? This is an odd post. The first portion above the dotted line [that I added], completely dismisses the OP as invalid non-science. Then, the rest goes on to make points that feminists would agree with and are basically are the argument for toxic masculinity being a problem.

Perhaps the issue is a misunderstanding that the phrase "toxic masculinity" implies that any way that men differ from women is "toxic". While there are some extremist men haters who'd spin it that way, that isn't the point. That would make the source of the problem simply being male with no need to qualify it as being "toxic" forms/extremes of "masculinity" which itself isn't even the same as being male. Masculinity is used to largely refer to a narrow set of male-linked traits of physical aggression, displays of strength and dominance (especially in terms of heterosexual dominance over females). There can be traits that differ by gender, such a math ability (yeah that does exist), that aren't even central to the "masculine" concept. Do we think of a highly masculine male as a math nerd? I think not.
So, the term "toxic masculinity" neither denies gender differences (even "innate" ones), nor generally criticizes males for such differences. It is focused upon the specific traits of aggression and sexual dominance that so many cultures emphasize and reward in males, and use as the benchmark for how manly you are, thus, creating a context that produces manifestations of these traits that are toxic.

 

[ruby sparks]

I just want to say something about toxic masculinity. Not necessarily sexual assault. Ok it's not necessarily about toxic masculinity strictly speaking. It's about men.

It's just that, yet again (and again and again) I browse the BBC news online today, and I can't help seeing a familiar pattern.



Today for instance, in 'world news':

"Cardinal defrocked over abuse allegations"

"Woman jailed over stillbirth is freed from 30-year sentence"

"Sacked man shoots five dead at US company"

And that's leaving out stories about Donald Trump.



Meanwhile in 'UK News':

"Teen stabbed (by other male teen) outside college dies"

"(Male) Exeter triple murder suspect remanded in custody"

"Raymond Dixon murder investigation: Four more men arrested"

"Car (with men in it) smashes into shopping centre in raid"



And then in my local section (Northern Ireland News):

"Call for domestic abuse law to cover NI"

"Omagh cash machine found after being 'ripped out of wall (by men)'"

"Derry toddler death: Man to stand trial"

"Answers sought on (male) loyalist killings file"

"Man smuggled cocaine 'to pay for teeth'"


I could go on. And it's a similar set of stories day after day after day. And, of course, obviously, all the stories are not about and do not involve men, nor are they all bad news. But still.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

.... You forgot to make your point.

 

[ruby sparks]

.... You forgot to make your point.

Take a guess.

 

[ruby sparks]

Or read this:

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Nuff said. Have you considered castrating yourself?

 

[laughing dog]

Nuff said. Have you considered castrating yourself?

What an odd question. Perhaps it is an example of projection masquerading as analysis?

 

[ruby sparks]

It's no secret at all and should be completely uncontroversial to note that there is now and has always been, throughout history, a general and serious problem in human society, with male aggression, violence and other unbenign attitudes and behaviours. It should be possible, especially on a discussion forum that strives to be rational, to bring this up, highlight it and discuss it, without 'taking sides', over-reacting or bringing in certain related gender politics issues which are not necessarily relevant. That should really not need saying, especially in a thread on so-called toxic masculinity. I don't particularly mind if some do not like that particular term itself, but there is nonetheless a general phenomenon that imo it describes quite well, even if it were to be given an alternative name.

 

[RVonse]

So to the title: Is "Toxic Masculinity" now a scientific term?

You don't know what toxic masculinity is Jolly?

Toxic masculinity is a women making a 6 figure income who trys to wear pants. Strictly from the perspective of science there's really nothing more toxic and masculine than that.

 

[RVonse]

The relevant risk factors (other than alcohol) identified (in the second study) seem to be:

1. Sexual compulsivity/impulsivity (lack of self control)
2. Hostile attitudes toward women
3. Rape supportive beliefs
4. Perceptions of peer approval of forced sex
5. Perceptions of peer pressure to have sex with many different women

To me, the first of those, of itself, may not necessarily be part of what is called toxic masculinity. Numbers 2-5 more so (especially 2, 3 & 4). I'm not sure if toxic masculinity is a well-defined thing, or whether any of the studies cited actually use that term (I didn't see it being used other than in the article title, but I may have missed it) but on the whole I think it's quite a useful and relevant general term.

I don't quite understand the anti-social factor. The first study cited suggests that being more social (attending more parties and bars) was positively correlated with risk of committing assault.

Or could it simply be that society has been attempting to pussify all the men brought up without a 2 parent household, to be "beta" instead of "alpha" and so now society is reaping evolutionary blowback?

 

[untermensche]

What does "pussify" mean?

To not be violent?

A real alpha male does not use violence. They use words and ideas.

Humans have advanced because of the thinkers. Not the killers.

War is nothing but waste.

Everything except weapons advances without it.

 

[RVonse]

What does "pussify" mean?

To not be violent?

A real alpha male does not use violence. They use words and ideas.

Agreed. Its just too bad almost all males raised by single women have no role model and thus turn into beta males.

Humans have advanced because of the thinkers. Not the killers.

War is nothing but waste.

Everything except weapons advances without it.

Again, I don't disagree. Its just that men and women have evolved to compliment each other but now that evolutionary programming has been short circuited by family court and so called women's liberation.

Under those circumstances and from the science perspective, I think the OP should be no surprise at all to what has been done to male role in the past 30 years.