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Chronicles in Socialism - Venezuela has Elections Sunday

The Chavismo lovefest:

NEW YORK -- Black intellectuals, activists and political leaders honored Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro at the National Black Theatre in Harlem on Monday, praising his left-wing government’s education and health care policies as an alternative and possible remedy to U.S. policies they say foster racism.

Maduro is one of dozens of heads of state who traveled to New York this week to speak before the annual U.N. General Assembly -- and his stop in Harlem carried symbolic weight. Taking the podium in front of a banner displaying his own mustachioed image and raised fist, Maduro excoriated European colonialism and U.S.-led neoliberalism as the twin foundations of racism in the Americas.

“We’ve suffered with you,” Maduro told the crowd of about 200 people. “It hurts us to know that this old structure of racism continues to haunt our populations like a ghost.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-activists-nicolas-maduro-harlem_560a836fe4b0af3706ddc573

And the love continues:

A co-founder of the Black Lives Matter campaign is in Caracas for Election Day at the invitation of the socialist government.

Opal Tometi was swarmed by government critics on Twitter after posting about the relief she felt being "in a place where there is intelligent political discourse."

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...-voting-kicks-off-with-fireworks-in-venezuela

Nothing like inviting a friend of the revolution as an "election observer", while banning OAS monitors.

This says nothing about the BLM mindset, your first quote does not even mention BLM, but rather "Black intellectuals, activists and political leaders". So, one BLM co-founder went to Venezuela for Election Day at the invitation of the socialist government. That tells us that the Maduro's government supports BLM to some extent, and that Tometi probably does not know the meaning of "intelligent political discourse", but it in no way supports your supposition that BLM as a group has a Chavismo mindset.

I will withhold comment until you re-read my post (edit added during your reply construction). BLM was a part of that Chavezmo "lovefest" in NYC.
 
The Chavismo lovefest:

NEW YORK -- Black intellectuals, activists and political leaders honored Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro at the National Black Theatre in Harlem on Monday, praising his left-wing government’s education and health care policies as an alternative and possible remedy to U.S. policies they say foster racism.

Maduro is one of dozens of heads of state who traveled to New York this week to speak before the annual U.N. General Assembly -- and his stop in Harlem carried symbolic weight. Taking the podium in front of a banner displaying his own mustachioed image and raised fist, Maduro excoriated European colonialism and U.S.-led neoliberalism as the twin foundations of racism in the Americas.

“We’ve suffered with you,” Maduro told the crowd of about 200 people. “It hurts us to know that this old structure of racism continues to haunt our populations like a ghost.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-activists-nicolas-maduro-harlem_560a836fe4b0af3706ddc573

And the love continues:

A co-founder of the Black Lives Matter campaign is in Caracas for Election Day at the invitation of the socialist government.

Opal Tometi was swarmed by government critics on Twitter after posting about the relief she felt being "in a place where there is intelligent political discourse."

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...-voting-kicks-off-with-fireworks-in-venezuela

Nothing like inviting a friend of the revolution as an "election observer", while banning OAS monitors.

This says nothing about the BLM mindset, your first quote does not even mention BLM, but rather "Black intellectuals, activists and political leaders". So, one BLM co-founder went to Venezuela for Election Day at the invitation of the socialist government. That tells us that the Maduro's government supports BLM to some extent, and that Tometi probably does not know the meaning of "intelligent political discourse", but it in no way supports your supposition that BLM as a group has a Chavismo mindset.

I will withhold comment until you re-read my post (edit added during your reply construction). BLM was a part of that Chavezmo "lovefest" in NYC.

OK, so the same BLM co-founder was at there as well, and there is a mention of BLM, but only as it relates to her being a co-founder. You still need to show that the group BLM has a Chavezmo mindset in order for your statement to be anything other than a fantasy. So, what specifically does the BLM movement represent that is indicative of a Chavezmo mindset?
 
OK, so the same BLM co-founder was at there as well, and there is a mention of BLM, but only as it relates to her being a co-founder. You still need to show that the group BLM has a Chavezmo mindset in order for your statement to be anything other than a fantasy. So, what specifically does the BLM movement represent that is indicative of a Chavezmo mindset?

If you really want to understand (rather than merely deny) you need to be precise: what I needed to show is why and how "Chavismo" "frightening to any non-socialist" is a "mindset not confined to Venezuela (e.g. BLM and E. Warren)"

And so that understanding is premised upon knowing what I mean by Chavezmo and its mindset, which apparently you don't.

Chavizmo, like most of the activist left, is a muddy emotive subjectivist left-wing ideology based the social views, and socialism of Chavez. It's salient themes are racialized class conflict (Indian roots vs. European), ignorant left populism, internationalism, left feminism and LBGT consciousness, and just about every other hard left sentimentality on the planet. It loves social welfare statism and opposes neoliberal economics. It's mindset is, like that of the hard left: rage, affection for left authoritarian leadership, intolerance, fuzzy declarations of liberation, and the politicization of everyday life with expressions of solidarity and war like slogans against the other.

That mindset is shared by the BLM movement's leaders - so much so they are ideological "friends". BLM leadership has been (or has become) reborn internationalists, traveling and embracing solidarity with 'the oppressed' of Palestine and Great Britain. They are "discovering the (sinister) links" with NAFTA and the trans Pacific Free Trade Agreement. They are promoting fuzzy anti-Globalist narratives. They are now a part of the left LGBT movement. Each of the three founders rooted the organization in this mindset:

Alicia Garza (the Queer activist) is pushing the usual Chavismo capitalist repression and liberation tripe:

More importantly, the convening in Cleveland offered an opportunity for us to be together in community and solidarity in ways that are wholly discouraged by a racialized capitalist society - an opportunity for us to practice in real time the strategies and tactics that we need to build a coordinated movement that can get us closer to liberation....

Let us not forget that assessing our strength is about more than how many of us can come together, despite racialized capitalism... designed to keep us disorganized and in disarray.

And who is Garza? "Alicia's work challenges us to celebrate the contributions of Black queer women's work within popular narratives of Black movements and reminds us that the Black radical tradition is long, complex and international."

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/it...ck-love-black-resistance-and-black-liberation

Then there is Patrisee Cullors. "She became an activist early in life. Cullors is queer, and says her parents asked her to leave home. She earned a degree in religion and philosophy from UCLA. She practices the Nigerian religious tradition of Ifà.[1]" and wone the Mario Savio Activist Award as ""queer polyamorous practitioner of Ifà, a religious tradition from Nigeria, and a person many people turn to not only as a political leader but as a spiritual leader." (Ohhh shades of Hugo!)

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...ors-on-creating-a-new-economy-of-non-violence

Cullors flies her left crackpot solidarity colors proudly:

... it was important for the Black Lives Matter movement to show up to Palestine, both in solidarity, but also to learn more about what's happening on the ground to Palestinians. It was a Dream Defender delegation - and myself and folks from BYP 100 (Black Youth Project), folks from Dream Defenders, as well as artists, went on this trip. ... After and during Ferguson, folks spoke so much about the ways in which Ferguson felt like Palestine, and the level of occupation and militarization.

We can't see our issues as just domestic issues; we have to see how the US empire exports racism, how it exports militarization.
When I showed up in Palestine, I had already known a lot; I've been studying it for years; but nothing would have prepared me for the level of violence and militarization that the Palestinian people are under. There was also this kindredness that we felt with Palestinians as Black people...

And let's not forget tometi, who we have already caught gushing about the comradeship and admiration of the Chavez creation.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...ding-a-transnational-movement-for-black-lives

So yes...they do share a mindset...not only with Chavezmo but with the kook international left.
 
A defiant Nicolas Maduro is not interested in reconciliation or healing.

http://venezuelablog.tumblr.com/post/134854774419/chavismo-reacts-to-electoral-defeat

Chavismo Reacts to Electoral Defeat

Hugo Pérez Hernáiz

Government and pro-government forces have been reacting to Sunday’s adverse elections results. Comments have ranged from the self-critical to the blaming of an “economic war” waged by the opposition.

The first reaction came from President Maduro himself. ...Maduro appeared on television from the Miraflores palace recognizing defeat. He refrained however from directly congratulating the winners and instead accused his opponents of stepping up the “economic war” against the country in the weeks before the election. He also called for a “rebirth” of the Revolution ....”

... He explained, “they (the opposition) feel they have power and are already showing their fangs and threatening to persecute the people. The bourgeoisie is coming to impose a neo-liberal restoration.” The offensive phase, on the other hand, should aim at the final defeat of the “economic war promoted by rightist sectors seeking to generate chaos and destabilization.”

In his televised address on Tuesday night, Maduro said he would block any amnesty law for political prisoners coming from the new parliament. He also asked for the resignation of all his cabinet ministers, as he announced the government will be going into a deep “restructuring.”

...PSUV governor of Falcón State, Stella Lugo, declared on Monday that “the government is going into a full state of revision.” She said however, that the revision should focus not in the government itself, but on how it had failed to clearly explain the effects of the economic war and who was behind it: “The opposition won those spaces because of the economic crisis. But we failed to explain to our people that the crisis had been planned by the right-wing. The people yesterday drained in the ballots their discontent as a result of the economic crisis.”

The head of the PSUV’s electoral campaign, Jorge Rodríguez, ... blamed the defeat on what he called an “atypical campaign.” “While we were in the street with ideas and proposals, the opposition side didn’t even put any candidates in the field. Instead they waged an economic and psychological war. As president Maduro said yesterday, the right-wing didn’t win; the economic and psychological war and all aggressions suffered by the Venezuelan people won the elections.” Rodríguez warned "If the opposition uses this electoral result as an instrument to attack the institution, well, it will have to face us,”...

One of the reelected Chavista deputies, Earle Herrera, ...also said that his reelection had not been an essay task because “the Venezuelan people have been the victims of sabotages of the oil industry, guarimbas, economic war, kidnaping attempts, and many more destabilization plots, which we have been fighting against alongside the people.”

The current president of the National Assembly and PSUV leader Diosdado Cabello said that the results were only a slight misstep for the revolution. ... On Tuesday Cabello declared that the current AN will speed through the appointment of 12 judges of the Supreme Justice Tribunal, before the new opposition dominated assembly takes over in January 2016.


...
The need for self-criticism and doubts about the conspiratorial explanations given by the government were the main points of several reactions from the independent left. Franklin González, a well-known social sciences professor of the Universidad Central de Venezuela and former ambassador to Poland, Uruguay, and Greece during the Chávez administration, wrote in a piece for Aporrea that the government needed to learn from the defeat and deal with the everyday problems of the people instead of blaming everything on a conspiracy. “If a person phones a government bank and spends an infinite time on hold, without ever reaching anyone to answer, this has little to do with imperialism and the CIA.”

Nicmer Evans, leader of the independent Chavista party Marea Socialista, said that the government should fully face its responsibility for the results. “I have heard some government officials blaming the people; instead I think the government has no one to blame but itself. To say that the economic war is completely responsible for this is quite frankly to be totally disconnected from reality.

The problem is, "a disconnect from reality" is also known as psychosis. Are there any insane asylums large enough in Venezuela to house these folk?

This may yet end in a bloody insurrection if the Supremes continue to act as Maduro's hand-maidens. If so, "Nicholas the bus driver" should remember the fate of the other Nicolae, his ideological brethren Ceaușescu.

When the people turn, and the army will not act, where will you run Nicholas? What corrupted court's will protect you? When they put you in a trial with the same standards that you used against your opponents, who will defend you?

Lopez is waiting to see his day of vengeance. It will come.
 
Chavizmo, like most of the activist left, is a muddy emotive subjectivist left-wing ideology based the social views, and socialism of Chavez.

Thanks for stating it that plainly for me. Since the BLM movement is not based on the socialism of Chavez, but rather on the fact that black lives matter as much as any other lives, your extreme partisan rhetoric that likens that movement to Chavizmo, or Chavezmo, or however you are spelling it in a given sentence, can be disregarded.
 
Thanks for stating it that plainly for me. Since the BLM movement is not based on the socialism of Chavez, but rather on the fact that black lives matter as much as any other lives, your extreme partisan rhetoric that likens that movement to Chavizmo, or Chavezmo, or however you are spelling it in a given sentence, can be disregarded.
1. No, that's not what BLM is based on. BLM is based on protesting any police killing of black, and only black, people, even (or especially) if the killed person was a thug and/or the shooting was justified.
2. While BLM and Chavismo are certainly not the same thing, they sure as hell do support each other.
Black North Americans Stand with Venezuela
TeleSur said:
A range of North American Black rights organizations and individuals have signed a statement released Tuesday in solidarity with Venezuela’s revolution following the electoral defeat earlier this month.
Organizations include the African Awareness Association, the All-African People’s Revolutionary Party (GC), Baltimore Bloc, Black Lives Matter, FONAMI, the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, the Organization for Black Struggle, San Francisco Bay View Newspaper and We Are the Ones.
[...]
“Black people in North America understand that the triumphs of oppressed people anywhere in the world are triumphs for Black people everywhere,” the statement reads, expressing disappointment at the “counter-revolutionary” win of Venezuela’s assembly.
 
1. No, that's not what BLM is based on. BLM is based on protesting any police killing of black, and only black, people, even (or especially) if the killed person was a thug and/or the shooting was justified.

I disagree. They don't prefer the ones that are thugs. It's just that most people shot by the police are thugs (and most of the rest are suicide by cop. We just had one of those locally--she posted about her intentions so there's no doubt what happened.)
 
1. No, that's not what BLM is based on.

Yes, it is, regardless of how desperately you do not want it to be. For some people, to admit that blacks are human is just a bridge to far. Better to call them "thugs", "dindus", and worse, so as to avoid thinking of them as men and women deserving of the same freedoms and quality of life as straight white males.
 
Yes, it is, regardless of how desperately you do not want it to be. For some people, to admit that blacks are human is just a bridge to far. Better to call them "thugs", "dindus", and worse, so as to avoid thinking of them as men and women deserving of the same freedoms and quality of life as straight white males.
On the contrary, it is precisely because we view blacks as just as human as whites that we seek to hold them to the same standards. Which is why we are not excusing bad behavior by thugs and dindus etc.
Too many on the left, on the other hand, are engaged in the "soft bigotry of low expectations" where you can't even call a thug a thug as long as that thug is black.
 
1. No, that's not what BLM is based on. BLM is based on protesting any police killing of black, and only black, people, even (or especially) if the killed person was a thug and/or the shooting was justified.

I disagree. They don't prefer the ones that are thugs. It's just that most people shot by the police are thugs (and most of the rest are suicide by cop. We just had one of those locally--she posted about her intentions so there's no doubt what happened.)

Well I was not sure about that bit which is why I put it in parentheses. But I would not be too sure about the opposite either. There certainly seems to be much more energy and focus by BLM on thugs (Michel Brown, Jamar Clark, etc.) rather than on people like John Crawford or Tamir Rice, whose killings were tragic and who were not thugs.
 
Yes, it is, regardless of how desperately you do not want it to be. For some people, to admit that blacks are human is just a bridge to far. Better to call them "thugs", "dindus", and worse, so as to avoid thinking of them as men and women deserving of the same freedoms and quality of life as straight white males.
On the contrary, it is precisely because we view blacks as just as human as whites that we seek to hold them to the same standards. Which is why we are not excusing bad behavior by thugs and dindus etc.
Too many on the left, on the other hand, are engaged in the "soft bigotry of low expectations" where you can't even call a thug a thug as long as that thug is black.

If you had ever referred to a single non-black person as a thug or a dindu, I just might believe you.
 
On the contrary, it is precisely because we view blacks as just as human as whites that we seek to hold them to the same standards. Which is why we are not excusing bad behavior by thugs and dindus etc.
Too many on the left, on the other hand, are engaged in the "soft bigotry of low expectations" where you can't even call a thug a thug as long as that thug is black.

If you had ever referred to a single non-black person as a thug or a dindu, I just might believe you.

You're welcome.
 
If you had ever referred to a single non-black person as a thug or a dindu, I just might believe you.

You're welcome.

I hope you didn't put yourself out too much, digging through a year's worth of Derec's posts with the word "thug" in them, to come up with one reference to non-blacks. And I do owe you thanks, as you pretty much proved my point. I used the word "might" when asking for the reference because I knew it was entirely possible that he had used the word to describe Hispanics, or Arabs, you know, other brown people, and of course in your link he is using the word to describe Palestinians.
 

I hope you didn't put yourself out too much, digging through a year's worth of Derec's posts with the word "thug" in them, to come up with one reference to non-blacks. And I do owe you thanks, as you pretty much proved my point. I used the word "might" when asking for the reference because I knew it was entirely possible that he had used the word to describe Hispanics, or Arabs, you know, other brown people, and of course in your link he is using the word to describe Palestinians.
You're welcome.

Incidentally,

Btr-Y_YIgAASM0q.jpg


who the heck defined Arabs as "brown people"?
 
George Clooney doesn't have arab ancestry.

I don't know who that other guy is so :shrug:
 

Well, one would think that when a picture is posted to argue against arabs being considered brown that the pic posted would be of an arab person and not a person with a mixed european background.

That doesn't mean they are not white.

From your link:

The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically.

So, really, who cares about what the census has to say about race and what constitutes a "brown" person or not?

I don't know who that other guy is so
Khaled Mashal, Hamas chief.

Ok, so? In regular usage "brown" is referencing a person not descended from northern european ancestors.

Next you should post a pic of Michael Jackson from later in his life and tell us how he's not really black.
 
Well, one would think that when a picture is posted to argue against arabs being considered brown that the pic posted would be of an arab person and not a person with a mixed european background.
It is a picture of an Arab person. It's a picture of the number-one Arab person Derec called a thug, placed for comparison purposes next to a picture of the northern-European-American person that people have been commenting for years on how much the thug looks like. Anybody who calls the guy on the left "brown" and the guy on the right "white" is evidently not doing so based on color vision.

So, really, who cares about what the census has to say about race and what constitutes a "brown" person or not?
So ask somebody who uses "brown people" to mean "A racist is anybody I say is a racist." if he cares what constitutes a "brown" person.

Ok, so? In regular usage "brown" is referencing a person not descended from northern european ancestors.
I see, so now Italians are "brown people" too?

Next you should post a pic of Michael Jackson from later in his life and tell us how he's not really black.
So your theory is that Mashal is a vitiligo sufferer?
 
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