Cop Indicted For Murder

[Loren Pechtel]

If the guy was a saint he wouldn't have tried to run and wouldn't have gotten shot.

If the cop had behaved like a trained professional and not a trigger happy asshole, Dubose would have been alive today. What the fuck was he doing reaching into the car? Dubose had stopped when the police car lit him up, and he was sitting in his car responding to the officers' questions. There is zero evidence to suggest that he was a threat to anybody around him.

I do agree he shouldn't have been reaching into the car but the reason he did so is clear--Dubose started his car. The cop reached in to take the keys.

He was a threat to the cop--the cop ended up 30' down the road, that couldn't have happened unless he was being dragged.

I don't know what Officer Tensing's motivations were for pulling the trigger. He may have been a racist looking for his first black "kill", or he may have been criminally incompetent, lacking the training and/or self control to handle a loaded firearm. Either way, Dubose is dead because a police officer shot him at near point blank range, a situation that could easily have been handled very differently by a cop who knew what he was doing.

You must not be paying any attention to the case, then.

And I still don't understand what Dubose's colorful life had to do with him getting put down on the street like a rabid animal. What possible bearing does it have on the actions of the policeman who put him down? And why the fuck are you not digging up Tensing's history? He is the asshole cop who slaughtered an unarmed man at a traffic stop, which is FAR worse than any unsavory activity Dubose may have engaged in. A human being was shot and killed on the street by a trigger happy cop, and all you can do is defend the cop who took his life. What the fuck is wrong with you?

It's very relevant--because it indicates the guy was going to be spending a good chunk of time in jail. Thus it provides motivation for him to rabbit.

 

[laughing dog]

So, was the gun fired with one hand or two?

If not, where was the left hand?

Also. If the gun was brought out to scare him to comply (which he seems to) why was the safety off?

ETA, with a google search I only found the topic of the cop's safety being off on 4chan's /pol/ board. Hahaha.

It appears he fired one-handed. The left hand is out of the frame as far as I can tell--in some fashion trapped with the steering wheel. (The cop reached for the keys, the guy tried to stop him from turning the car off.)

If you cannot see the left hand, then you cannot tell if it was free, trapped or scratching his ass. Once again, you are literally make stuff up and claiming it as fact

And you can release the safety with the hand holding the gun.

And you know that he did this how?

 

[Toni]

If the cop had behaved like a trained professional and not a trigger happy asshole, Dubose would have been alive today. What the fuck was he doing reaching into the car? Dubose had stopped when the police car lit him up, and he was sitting in his car responding to the officers' questions. There is zero evidence to suggest that he was a threat to anybody around him.

I do agree he shouldn't have been reaching into the car but the reason he did so is clear--Dubose started his car. The cop reached in to take the keys.

He was a threat to the cop--the cop ended up 30' down the road, that couldn't have happened unless he was being dragged.

OK, Loren. How was the cop dragged for 30 feet and still manage to get up, run and catch up to the car that was 'rabbiting' away and fire a shot at nearly point blank range into the head of Dubose?

 

[abaddon]

It appears he fired one-handed. The left hand is out of the frame as far as I can tell--in some fashion trapped with the steering wheel. (The cop reached for the keys, the guy tried to stop him from turning the car off.)

If you cannot see the left hand, then you cannot tell if it was free, trapped or scratching his ass. Once again, you are literally make stuff up and claiming it as fact .

Anyone who watches the video carefully (preferably the stabilized one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqKugc3ZVM) can see the officer’s left arm and hand very plainly.

Tensing was at first reaching through the steering wheel in a fashion that might have got his arm stuck there, which is why he stopped that motion and instead reaches his left hand first at DuBose’s belly and then his chest grasping at the seatbelt on DuBose’s chest as he pulled out his gun and pointed it at DuBose’s head and blew the man’s brains out. Tensing then flexes his left arm towards himself after he has fired the shot and falls backwards, which would be impossible to do if the left arm was stuck in the steering wheel.

And obviously his right is free to draw the weapon, aim and fire.

So all the stuff about either arm being stuck are blatant lies, because both of his arms are plainly seen to be free in the officer’s own body-cam video.

The stuff about dragging is highly doubtful. You can see the amount of movement down the street by observing the position of the both persons relative to a driveway and the truck in it that are both visible behind DuBose’s head during the entire scuffle. You can see the driveway and the truck parked in it from the second the officer is reaching in to the second he fires his pistol. The relative position only significantly changes after DuBose has slumped over with a hole in his head. Tensing finds himself a little distance down the street after he’s fallen and then risen and then looks around. The driveway is again visible but not the truck anymore because it is now a little ways down the street and so bushes conceal the truck from this new angle. However Tensing was clearly on his feet until he let go his grasp of DuBose and fell or threw himself backwards from the car. To have maintained his angle above the door frame he would necessarily have been running alongside the car for that little distance, not dragging along (with two not-stuck arms) while also pulling out a gun, releasing the safety, taking aim and firing.

If anyone believes he was dragged, then name the damn part of the body or clothing that was stuck. And don’t say arm in the steering wheel because that is plainly false. The officer told one big whopper of a lie about that.

 

[RavenSky]

Well he did occupy the Temple for a bit. That's not very saintly.
Also, as Paul (?) says in Romans 13 (where the phrase "powers that be" comes from)

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same

In other words, being a saint or not has little bearing on whether people the world over and throughout history are killed by police (or the historic/regional versions of "police")

If "Argument from Jesus" (argumentum ad Iesum) is not in the list of logical fallacies, it should be. Never mind a possibly mythical Galilean preacher in the 1st century CE.

you were doing fine up to this point. Amusing, even.

Had DeBose in the 21st century not attempted to run he'd still be alive.

Given how many other people have been killed by NOT running from police - in too many case, running TO police for help - I do not believe you can say that with any certainty at all.

And that is quite a separate issue from whether the shooting was justified by the way.

you are correct. The shooting was not justified either way.

 

[abaddon]

OK, Loren. How was the cop dragged for 30 feet and still manage to get up, run and catch up to the car that was 'rabbiting' away and fire a shot at nearly point blank range into the head of Dubose?

He wouldn’t have had to catch up with the car to shoot the man, because he kept up with it as it moved very slowly by running alongside it while he took aim and fired.

After he threw himself backwards from the car and fell down, the officer then ran to catch up with the car because it accelerated significantly after he had shot the driver in the side of his head, which caused the driver to slump over and apparently also unconsciously (due to dying or being dead) pressing the gas. The car had run into something up the street and was stopped (and still revving with the dead man's foot pressing the gas) on a sidewalk.

ETA: I probably should rather say he was walking alongside the vehicle as he took aim and fired, since the car was moving very little so long as DuBose was alive, and running at that angle makes having to actually run seem very unlikely.

 

[abaddon]

The officer was stuck by his hand grasping DuBose’s seatbelt, and stuck in his intention to stop him. It looks a hella lot like an execution if you watch the stabilized video very carefully. But the jury will likely find he was incompetent rather than malicious and convict him of manslaughter instead of murder… though, maybe not. There’s no way to say the shooting even just might be justified except to be very stupid about this.

If Tensing was ever at risk of getting run over by the car’s rear tire, it was after the car accelerated after DuBose was shot. Which would explain Tensing only then throwing himself back away from the vehicle, after firing the shot.

Again, all of the danger that Tensing was in was created by he himself. Grasping created some little tiny danger to himself, shooting created even more danger to himself.

The greatest threat to human life the whole time was the presence of this police officer in the neighborhood.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I do agree he shouldn't have been reaching into the car but the reason he did so is clear--Dubose started his car. The cop reached in to take the keys.

He was a threat to the cop--the cop ended up 30' down the road, that couldn't have happened unless he was being dragged.

OK, Loren. How was the cop dragged for 30 feet and still manage to get up, run and catch up to the car that was 'rabbiting' away and fire a shot at nearly point blank range into the head of Dubose?

Try posting a scenario that has something to do with reality. Start with watching the video in very slow motion so you can see what's actually happening.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Tensing was at first reaching through the steering wheel in a fashion that might have got his arm stuck there, which is why he stopped that motion and instead reaches his left hand first at DuBose’s belly and then his chest grasping at the seatbelt on DuBose’s chest as he pulled out his gun and pointed it at DuBose’s head and blew the man’s brains out. Tensing then flexes his left arm towards himself after he has fired the shot and falls backwards, which would be impossible to do if the left arm was stuck in the steering wheel.

But it would be possible if his left arm had been somehow restrained by DuBose--trying to stop him from interfering with his escape.

So all the stuff about either arm being stuck are blatant lies, because both of his arms are plainly seen to be free in the officer’s own body-cam video.

They are clear up until things go bad. At that point the frames are too motion-blurred to know what's going on.

The stuff about dragging is highly doubtful. You can see the amount of movement down the street by observing the position of the both persons relative to a driveway and the truck in it that are both visible behind DuBose’s head during the entire scuffle. You can see the driveway and the truck parked in it from the second the officer is reaching in to the second he fires his pistol. The relative position only significantly changes after DuBose has slumped over with a hole in his head. Tensing finds himself a little distance down the street after he’s fallen and then risen and then looks around. The driveway is again visible but not the truck anymore because it is now a little ways down the street and so bushes conceal the truck from this new angle. However Tensing was clearly on his feet until he let go his grasp of DuBose and fell or threw himself backwards from the car. To have maintained his angle above the door frame he would necessarily have been running alongside the car for that little distance, not dragging along (with two not-stuck arms) while also pulling out a gun, releasing the safety, taking aim and firing.

Which doesn't explain where the energy to throw the cop 30 down the street came from. There is no running alongside--we have the car stationary or nearly so, trouble, the cop rolling, the cop recovering 30' away.

 

[Derec]

I know it's Breitbart, but if this pans out it would mean DuBose was back to his drug dealing ways and it's going to change the dynamic of the case.
Report: Sam DuBose, Shot by Cop, Had Two Pounds of Marijuana and Thousands in Cash in His Car

 

[Toni]

OK, Loren. How was the cop dragged for 30 feet and still manage to get up, run and catch up to the car that was 'rabbiting' away and fire a shot at nearly point blank range into the head of Dubose?

Try posting a scenario that has something to do with reality. Start with watching the video in very slow motion so you can see what's actually happening.

I think I'll stick with the upthread link:

This would suggest that perhaps the car moving and the dragging of Officer Tensing might not have occurred until after the killing shot was fired.

Then, there's this, a frame by frame clip which shows Dubose being shot with his hands in the air, and Tenning's hand on his seat belt. Seems to confirm the verbiage from the earlier link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDiyo9qjISg

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

 

[Toni]

I know it's Breitbart, but if this pans out it would mean DuBose was back to his drug dealing ways and it's going to change the dynamic of the case.
Report: Sam DuBose, Shot by Cop, Had Two Pounds of Marijuana and Thousands in Cash in His Car

Well, the cop's body cam shows that Dubose had his hands in the air when Tenning shot him so, well, no.

But I bet the guy who had an earlier run in with Tenning is feeling mighty lucky he's not dead.

 

[Derec]

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.

 

[abaddon]

But it would be possible if his left arm had been somehow restrained by DuBose--trying to stop him from interfering with his escape.

“It would be possible”? What the fuck?! After that post to Toni, you want to propose shit that is blatantly contradicted — and extremely plainly — by the video?

Yet again, you say you have watched the video very carefully, and then say something that proves you have not.

DuBose’s left hand came in contact with the officer’s hand reaching in for the keys for a moment, until he sees a gun… Then it’s up in the air between the gun and his head. DuBose’s right hand is on the far side of the steering wheel the whole time things are “going bad”. And it too moves upwards a bit when he sees the gun.

They are clear up until things go bad. At that point the frames are too motion-blurred to know what's going on.

That is a bullshit claim. You don’t like what’s on the video because it’s proof that it’s impossible to call this a “justified shoot” without being idiotic. Or you haven’t really watched it. Or you’re playing a game with the word “know”, trying to cast doubt so that you can continue with conjectures without having to be bothered with the visual evidence.

Which doesn't explain where the energy to throw the cop 30 down the street came from. There is no running alongside--we have the car stationary or nearly so, trouble, the cop rolling, the cop recovering 30' away.

I added that there likely is no running. If the car was moving a little during the struggle, it moved only a little ways. The officer threw himself or fell backwards from the accelerating car after he shot the man. If he’s thrown a few feet up the street, it’s because his shot to the driver’s head caused the car to significantly pick up speed and thus gave him motivation to leap backwards (and maybe a bit up the street). He also stumbles around some after getting to his feet, in the direction of the silver car up the street from where they’d been (beside the aforementioned driveway), before he takes off running up the street.

Who said he was dragged or thrown 30 feet down the road anyway? What’s the source on that?

Does it look to you like he was thrown 30 feet in the video?

 

[laughing dog]

Try posting a scenario that has something to do with reality. Start with watching the video in very slow motion so you can see what's actually happening.

You first.

 

[Toni]

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.

Tenning and his body cam were not stationary.

Your OWN POST narrates that Dubose's head recoils FROM THE SHOT. Of course the car moved! It's not like Dubose could hit the brake. BECAUSE HE WAS DEAD.

Tenning was probably not dragged at all but instead fell/pushed himself back/was thrown back by the recoil of the WEAPON HE FIRED INTO THE HEAD OF A MAN WITH HIS HANDS IN THE AIR. We hear him RUNNING to catch up with the car. Not being dragged. You can clearly hear his breathing and his running steps.

When he points out how his pant leg shows he was 'dragged,' I cannot see ANY damage. If he had been dragged by a car that was speeding away, his pants would have been in shreds.

 

[arkirk]

This story has all the appearance of just another murder in a string of police murders of black men. The cop's actions were highly prejudiced and asinine. Blowing somebody's brains out is pretty damned serious unless you are Loren and that somebody turns out to be black. Then suddenly we are asked to go on an evidence hunt with him, slowing down grainy videos and accepting his narrative when there is an overriding statistic that keeps going further out of balance each day.

 

[RavenSky]

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.

Nope. It totally supports the fact that Tenning chose to shoot a man point blank in the head rather than let him drive down the street to his house.

And it totally supports the fact that IF the car was moving (rather than the cop), it was moving barely inches and was therefore no danger to the cop at all. But it looks to me like the cop was the one moving - forward towards the front of Dubose's car. Look where Dubose's is in each frame.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Try posting a scenario that has something to do with reality. Start with watching the video in very slow motion so you can see what's actually happening.

I think I'll stick with the upthread link:

This would suggest that perhaps the car moving and the dragging of Officer Tensing might not have occurred until after the killing shot was fired.

Then, there's this, a frame by frame clip which shows Dubose being shot with his hands in the air, and Tenning's hand on his seat belt. Seems to confirm the verbiage from the earlier link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDiyo9qjISg

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

And he would have been dragged a lot farther if he hadn't fired. There's no way he would have been dragged at all if Dubose hadn't rabbited.

- - - Updated - - -

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

Seems the car was moving before the gunshot.

I just realized something--what has been reported as the cop going for the seatbelt instead of the keys was probably the effect of the car moving. He reached for the keys and the car moved forward so he ended up with his hand farther back than the point he was reaching for.

 

[Toni]

I think I'll stick with the upthread link:

This would suggest that perhaps the car moving and the dragging of Officer Tensing might not have occurred until after the killing shot was fired.

Then, there's this, a frame by frame clip which shows Dubose being shot with his hands in the air, and Tenning's hand on his seat belt. Seems to confirm the verbiage from the earlier link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDiyo9qjISg

Tenning was dragged by the car after Dubose is dead.

And he would have been dragged a lot farther if he hadn't fired. There's no way he would have been dragged at all if Dubose hadn't rabbited.

He wasn't being dragged when he murdered the man who had his hands in the air. Tenning was moving. Not the vehicle.