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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"


This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.
 
But "seeing" and "projection" are central to this issue of conditioning.
They are aspects regarding the issue of conditioning, but they are not central to the issue of conditioning. "Seeing" is central only when it is explicitly stated that considerations are being restricted to the vision context. But, even then, "projection" is an unnecessary term. Words are spoken, thought, or written when they are used; spoken words are said to be projected as a way describing when a speaker (or singer) has his or her voice heard at a distance without having to scream.

I'm not sure where that helps when you add "to respond to what is not part of reality."
The phrase "respond to" replaces "see" in order to concentrate on the fact that conditioning affects responses beyond just seeing and its associated interpretation. Likewise "use" replaces "projection" to more properly capture the breadth of the power which words can have - a power that is present even when words are not projected but are, instead, merely thought, for instance.
 

This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.

Of course it does! Her replies are as always ludicrous.

@peacegirl, Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?

Please give a straight answer in your own words.
 

This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.
I did not sidestep the question. You're not understanding how efferent vision works. There is no distance or time involved when looking at an object. Distance is interpreted by the brain. We know the moon is far away and an airplane is closer. Light becomes a condition of sight. It does not cause anything; it reveals.

How​

The brain interprets distance through a combination of sensory inputs and learned experiences. It uses binocular cues like convergence and retinal disparity to gauge depth and distance, especially for objects within ten meters. Monocular cues such as relative size and interposition are used for greater distances. The brain also considers environmental factors and the cognitive abilities of the individual, such as working memory and attention, to refine distance estimates. This complex interplay allows for a dynamic and adaptive estimation of distances, which is constantly updated as an individual interacts with their surroundings.

biologyinsights.com+2
 
Pg
How can you check the direction you see? I've asked this before. Scientific theory seems logical, but logic isn't always right. Lessans had a different take on how we see due to conditioning that could not occur any other way than through the projection of words that can be mistaken for reality. The present scientific theory says light bounces off of objects rather than revealing those objects (because of the belief that we are seeing a delayed image --- due to light speed --- which Lessans disputes. There is nothing about Lessans' claim that is impossible, or any more impossible than light with a particular wavelength/frequency traveling for eons before it reaches the eye or a telescope.

Still don't know what you mean by direction, unless you nean a thought track. If you mean where we are looking you can use a compass.

'words taken for reality'. Again the bit about conditioning and projection sounds like General Semantics which predates Lessans, and had/has a following. Did he have Science And Sanity on the bookshelf? It is also psychology.

From GS 'the map is not the countryside', words are not reality.


The bit about light is again is nonsense. Physical optic does describe how light interacts with an inject creating patters in the light, the 'image'.

And again visible light is a narrow part of the entire electromagnet spectrum. Radio waves and visible light are he same phenomena. All EM radiation interact with the surcease of an object. How it interacts depends on wavelength. If Lessans' claims about light are to be true it has to apply across the entire electromagnet spectrum.

Pg. all your claims are subjective reasoning.
 
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This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.
I did not sidestep the question. You're not understanding how efferent vision works. There is no distance or time involved when looking at an object. Distance is interpreted by the brain. We know the moon is far away and an airplane is closer. Light becomes a condition of sight. It does not cause anything; it reveals.

How​

The brain interprets distance through a combination of sensory inputs and learned experiences. It uses binocular cues like convergence and retinal disparity to gauge depth and distance, especially for objects within ten meters. Monocular cues such as relative size and interposition are used for greater distances. The brain also considers environmental factors and the cognitive abilities of the individual, such as working memory and attention, to refine distance estimates. This complex interplay allows for a dynamic and adaptive estimation of distances, which is constantly updated as an individual interacts with their surroundings.

biologyinsights.com+2

That article doesn't support the claim of light at the eye/instant vision.

It's just another way of sidestepping the question.
 
But "seeing" and "projection" are central to this issue of conditioning.
They are aspects regarding the issue of conditioning, but they are not central to the issue of conditioning. "Seeing" is central only when it is explicitly stated that considerations are being restricted to the vision context.
That was made pretty clear by the fact that his claim involves vision, but it also extends into other contexts.
But, even then, "projection" is an unnecessary term. Words are spoken, thought, or written when they are used; spoken words are said to be projected as a way describing when a speaker (or singer) has his or her voice heard at a distance without having to scream.
He is using the word projection correctly and in context. He explains very clearly how the brain works as a movie projector, which is why the eyes cannot be considered a sense organ.
-----------------------------------------------

<snip>

The answer to this problem is to remove everything from the environment that makes one person feel superior or inferior over differences that are nothing but a projection of our realistic imagination. In other words, all words that project personal likes and dislikes onto the screen of undeniable substance, which then creates a standard for everyone, must be removed for this problem to be solved. These words have become so ingrained in our culture that it is necessary for me to clarify, once again, why they are not a symbol of reality and why they must become obsolete.

If a girl should design a dress, just as an artist paints a portrait, and you see that this dress stands out above all other dresses, this does not mean it is a wonderful or beautiful dress. It is a dress that stands out for you. By using such words, you make it appear that this girl has created something that partakes of a value called wonderful or beautiful, but in actual reality, all that we know as a matter of mathematical knowledge is that you like what she is wearing. It is important to remember that there are no external values by themselves. Other differences, such as money and food, are not in the same category as the word “beauty.” Because they do exist externally and because they are liked by all mankind, they have external value. But money and food, though they exist externally, have value for us only because we desire them. However, where the words “beautiful” and “wonderful” project our personal feelings about a particular thing, as if what we like exists that way in the external world for others, the words “food” and “money” do not. Our values do not exist as part of the external world, yet despite this, because our eyes are not a sense organ, and because our brain is also a movie projector, among other things, we are able to record these feelings on slides or words and then project them, through our eyes, onto the screen of the outside world. Then we photograph these feelings, which we now see in relation to certain specific differences, and thereafter, when we project the word, we actually see with our eyes these values as existing outside of us.
I'm not sure where that helps when you add "to respond to what is not part of reality."
Because the response to the projected word is not part of reality, but we are conditioned to seeing it as reality.
The phrase "respond to" replaces "see" in order to concentrate on the fact that conditioning affects responses beyond just seeing and its associated interpretation. Likewise "use" replaces "projection" to more properly capture the breadth of the power which words can have - a power that is present even when words are not projected but are, instead, merely thought, for instance.
This claim that the eyes are not a sense organ is specifically related to how words are projected onto the screen of reality. He was not using the word "condition" in any other context.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

<snip>

It is true, however, that we are so conditioned by these words that even their removal will not make us like someone more who appeals to us less. But when children are brought up without ever hearing these words, there is no telling whom they might be attracted to without being adversely judged. For example, if two boys decide to approach two girls having never been conditioned with words like “beautiful” and “ugly,” they might be attracted, without envy, each to the other, but when their heads are filled with fallacious standards of value that have been concealed in words, it is obvious that they will prefer the one that conforms more closely to this standard of perfection or beauty because this meets with greater approval and less criticism. This approval by others is in no way an external value; in other words, your approval of what I do has a value for me, but unless I want this, it has no value for me at all. If I don’t like the criticism, I will try to conform to a standard that avoids what I don’t like, but this is a relation between myself and what exists outside of me.

“Well, is it a fallacious value when certain differences are admired and respected more by the majority of the world? For example, is it a fallacious value when — pardon the fallacious expression — a beautiful girl attracts a millionaire who desires to marry her because of her beauty? I’d say these values are pretty real, regardless of whether we call these differences by one name or another, right? If one thousand males have to choose between two females and the entire thousand pick one in preference to the other, do you mean to say that the differences that attracted them are not a part of the external world?”

“Of course, these differences are a part of the external world, just as the difference between the moon and the sun is a part of the external world, and just as the difference between a cat and a rat is externally real, but this has nothing to do with value. In other words, if you choose a cat as a pet because you like felines, this has personal value for you. There are some people who like rodents and would pick the rat as their choice, which has personal value for them. In reality, there is no such thing as an external value. If you are drawn to hire an individual because he meets certain requirements or if he judges for himself that he qualifies (as will happen in the new world), this only means that he is more valuable to you, the employer; and if one thousand people think the same way this doesn’t mean that the differences they prefer have external value although the differences in substance are externally real. Value is nothing other than a word to describe what you personally want or like.”

“Do you mean that one man’s meat is another man’s poison... and doesn’t this go back to the idea that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder? I’m still confused as to why this expression isn’t correct when it is expressing someone’s personal taste.”

“There is quite a difference between both expressions because meat and poison are external realities, but, as we have learned, beauty has no external reality whatsoever. I may not like certain types of meat, but I don’t create the meat with a word to symbolize its existence, whereas the word ‘beauty’ does this by placing a greater value on certain specific differences (that undeniably exist and are a part of the external world), which value only has existence for the internal world, that is, for what I personally like or desire. For example, if I call one shaped nose aquiline and another straight, then I am accurately symbolizing an external difference, but if I say a straight nose is beautiful and an aquiline nose is ugly, then I am projecting through my eyes an internal value that has no external existence onto a screen of differences that are externally undeniable. Consequently, when any words are used that contain an internal value, something that you recognize as having more value for you, which is then projected as a part of the external world, it is then made to appear that this value exists outside of you because you see it with your very eyes. As a result of words, man was actually able to do the impossible. He was able to stratify differences in people into layers of value when it is mathematically impossible for anything of value to exist in the external world. Can you imagine what would happen if we lived in an atmosphere where there were no values that were imposed as standards by the unconscious or conscious judgment of others?”

Supposing two girls living on earth, presently called ugly, were placed on a planet where no such word exists; there would be absolutely nothing to prevent them from living a normal life because the males there would never judge them in terms of ugliness, for no such thing exists except as a projection of our realistic imagination. What one man may like when no words such as beautiful and ugly are present to condition him — and there is no criticism for the choice that appeals to him most — might be a girl who has a stocky build, small breasts, and protruding ears. Here on earth, these girls are handicapped from the day of their birth because their particular features have been assigned more or less value as a result of these differences. They are constantly judged, not in any personal or direct manner, but in a way that cannot easily be corrected because they are seen through this kaleidoscope of negatives that transforms them realistically into what they are not. Every other word we use stratifies external differences, which cannot be denied, into fallacious standards and values that appear realistic only because they are confirmed with our eyes (with the direct perception of our sense of sight) and our unconscious syllogistic reasoning, which employs words as realities. The unhappiness resulting from these words is both manifold and manifest in the very fact that people develop an inferiority complex and are forced to compensate by becoming the life of the party or by making themselves visible in other ways. Not realizing that it was the word itself that was the source of the problem, those who were considered ugly were compelled to go through life feeling less than others in physiognomic value.

How many times have you heard someone intending to be nice but with a tone of pity remark, “She isn’t pretty, but she has a nice personality,” which becomes the consolation prize. This girl has to remove herself from the competition and get approval some other way in order to make up for this imaginary lack. Although you look back with smiling incredulity to the days of yore and wonder about the many ignorant beliefs that our ancestors used to imagine were true, is it possible for your professors to believe that they are not any more educated or intelligent than anybody else? As a further consequence of these fallacious differences that do not exist in reality but are only a projection of deceptive relations, they have been led to believe that they are more important than someone else, more valuable in the scheme of things, and from this source a host of evils stem. Do they have any conception that these are only words? In reality, no one is more intelligent or educated than anyone else, as you will soon understand. There are many more words that will go by the wayside, such as brilliant, genius, a brain, etc., because they do not accurately describe reality for what it is (and will be discussed in the chapter on education). It is absolutely true that just as long as others judge you as more beautiful or valuable when your physiognomy conforms to an accepted standard, or more educated or valuable when you learn or do certain things, there is ample justification to change yourself to suit them, which is the reason many people have nose operations, squeeze their teeth together, develop a huge vocabulary, walk, talk, and act in definite ways. The individuals who are considered educated, intelligent, or beautiful may not like to be told that they are none of these things, but there is a big difference between the people considered to possess these values and the ones who do not. It is difficult to contemplate the extent to which we have all been influenced by words that judge half of the human race as inferior, and the consequent pain this has caused.

At long last, we will be able to know ourselves for who we really are. If any reader starts out with a feeling of superiority or inferiority, I will guarantee that when he understands all the principles — and he will — he will end up feeling exactly equal in value with every person alive…no better or worse. We must remember that mankind has been developing at a mathematical rate and had to go through the necessary stages of development in order to reach this stage of maturity. Man has been consciously unconscious of the reason for doing things because of words, nothing else. Psychologists, theologians, philosophers, as well as all others who read books but do not know the difference between mathematical and logical relations, think that by learning a lot of words in various combinations, they have been studying reality. But when we realize that everything had to develop exactly the way it did, we are comforted in the knowledge that just as these words came into existence for various reasons, they will soon depart. I don’t believe it is possible for me to clarify this more than it is already in the text itself. However, I suggest this chapter be read and listened to several times, just in case you haven’t completely understood it. As a result of this knowledge, I have completely stopped using these words. It may be difficult for you to stop because they are used to compliment, flatter, and raise ourselves by downing others. When you refer to someone as bad-looking, it is equivalent to saying, “I am better looking,” and most people use everything they can to elevate their opinion of themselves in this cruel world of words. However, you will soon see that all these words must come to an end out of absolute necessity. Let us now observe what must take place as we extend the knowledge of what it means that man’s will is not free and his eyes not a sense organ into the world of love.
 

This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.
I did not sidestep the question. You're not understanding how efferent vision works. There is no distance or time involved when looking at an object. Distance is interpreted by the brain. We know the moon is far away and an airplane is closer. Light becomes a condition of sight. It does not cause anything; it reveals.

How​

The brain interprets distance through a combination of sensory inputs and learned experiences. It uses binocular cues like convergence and retinal disparity to gauge depth and distance, especially for objects within ten meters. Monocular cues such as relative size and interposition are used for greater distances. The brain also considers environmental factors and the cognitive abilities of the individual, such as working memory and attention, to refine distance estimates. This complex interplay allows for a dynamic and adaptive estimation of distances, which is constantly updated as an individual interacts with their surroundings.
biologyinsights.com+2

That article doesn't support the claim of light at the eye/instant vision.

It's just another way of sidestepping the question.
The point I was making was that distance is interpreted by the brain through cues and a working memory that can tell us how far away or how close something is. An object could be as far away as the moon, or as close as a streetlight. It's through the learning process that we are able to interpret distance, which is why actual distance due to the speed of light (i.e., the afferent account) is not a factor in this version.
 
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Pg
How can you check the direction you see? I've asked this before. Scientific theory seems logical, but logic isn't always right. Lessans had a different take on how we see due to conditioning that could not occur any other way than through the projection of words that can be mistaken for reality. The present scientific theory says light bounces off of objects rather than revealing those objects (because of the belief that we are seeing a delayed image --- due to light speed --- which Lessans disputes. There is nothing about Lessans' claim that is impossible, or any more impossible than light with a particular wavelength/frequency traveling for eons before it reaches the eye or a telescope.

Still don't know what you mean by direction, unless you nean a thought track. If you mean where we are looking you can use a compass.
The direction we see, whether efferent or afferent, is the entire point of this drawn-out discussion on the eyes.
'words taken for reality'. Again the bit about conditioning and projection sounds like General Semantics which predates Lessans, and had/has a following. Did he have Science And Sanity on the bookshelf? It is also psychology.
It is not general semantics. It's an actual conditioning that changes what we see because it creates a standard for everyone, and it's all due to words.
-----------------------------------------------------

One of the greatest forms of injustice still exists because we have never understood our true relationship with the external world, which is related to what we think we see with our eyes. What is this injustice? It is to be judged an inferior production of the human race because of physiognomic differences, and this judgment takes place the moment we call one person beautiful and another one ugly, handsome and homely, good-looking and bad-looking.

“But I have been taught that sticks and stones will break my bones, but names or words will never hurt me. Isn’t that a true statement?”

Actually, I’m not referring to those names. To be called the N-word, kike, dirty Jew, wop, pig, or any name used in an effort to make a person feel inferior is actually not a hurt if this does not lower us in our own eyes because we allow for the source. But when we believe we are inferior productions because of words that have told us so, the expression ‘Sticks and stones will break my bones…’ is completely erroneous, since we have been unconsciously hurt. This unconsciousness has its source in the failure to understand how the eyes function, which is revealed by the fact that they are included as one of the five senses. When someone is judged an inferior production of the human race by others, as well as himself, all because of words that have no relation to reality, although he sees this inferiority as if it is a definite part of the real world, then he is seriously hurt, and God is going to put a permanent end to the use of these words. What makes someone remark, “It’s a darn shame she got killed, she was such a pretty girl,” indicating that the tragedy was greater because of this prettiness. What makes parents give their children cosmetic surgery if not to increase their physiognomic value? As a consequence of the belief that one person is more beautiful or handsome than another, which places a greater value on certain features, many people will go to great lengths to correct their ‘imperfections’ by getting breast implants and eyelid surgery, while others will have nose operations and squeeze their teeth together. These operations are not without risk, yet many people are willing to have these cosmetic procedures because they believe the quality of their lives will improve, and the doctor who must earn a living justifies his professional advice on the undeniable grounds that they will definitely be more attractive when their teeth are together and their noses are straightened. After all, what makes someone good-looking, cute, adorable, lovely, gorgeous, beautiful, or handsome if not for the belief that certain features or a combination of features contain this value called ‘beauty’? And isn’t it also true that we see these differences with our very eyes? “We do,” you might reply, “but even if we differ as to who is the most beautiful, the real truth is that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.” This comment does not reveal the truth at all; instead, it reveals our confusion still more since this expression does not negate the existence of ugliness but only observes a difference of opinion regarding the type features that constitute what is beautiful and ugly. To prove what I mean, could you possibly call Miss America ugly, or the Wicked Witch beautiful? You might disagree with someone as to which girl in a beauty contest should be judged the winner, but none would be considered ugly. I then asked my friend this question to clarify my point.

“Who do you think is more beautiful, Elizabeth Taylor or your girlfriend?”

“How is it possible to answer your question when beauty is in the eyes of the beholder? This is just a matter of opinion, not a fact, and you said these words were symbolic of reality or gave the appearance of being so.”

Let me rephrase the question, “In your eyes, do you consider your girlfriend as beautiful as Elizabeth Taylor?”

“No, I don’t.”

“In your eyes, is this an opinion that you are less good-looking than Paul Newman, or a fact?”

“He is an extremely handsome man, and I do consider him better looking than myself.”

“Who do you consider better looking, Paul Newman or Robert Redford?”

“I say the latter.”

“Not in my book,” commented my friend. “Newman has it all over him.”

“Are you able to see what the expression ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder’ refers to? There is a difference of opinion as to who is better looking in your eyes, but once you admit to yourself that a certain person is more handsome or beautiful than another, then, as far as you’re concerned, this is not an opinion but a fact. Take a look at this picture. It is of a girl who has an aquiline nose, buck teeth, a receding hair line, heavy bowlegs, sagging breasts, a large derrière, a harelip, and she lisps and stutters. Now compare her with Elizabeth Taylor and tell me the truth. In your eyes, which one is more beautiful?”

“Are you trying to be funny? Elizabeth Taylor, naturally, but this is a fact: she is more beautiful. These differences exist and are a definite part of the real world because I see them with my very eyes.”

“Differences exist, this is true, and you do see them with your very eyes, but the words we have been looking through are not, and because these symbols are a terrible hurt, they must come to an end. You will soon have verified that when we use the expression, ‘beauty is in the eyes of the beholder,’ what we are saying in reality is that beauty is only a word existing in the brain of the beholder. To be classified as homely is the greatest injustice, yet every time we use the whole range of words expressing good looks, we do that very thing. You will soon understand how these words developed and how they fooled even the most analytic minds into believing they were true descriptions of reality. The truth is that nobody is beautiful or ugly, just different. However, the first thing I must do is demonstrate exactly why they are words only, not reality, and why they must become obsolete; otherwise, you will classify this kind of evil as one of those unfortunate things like being born without legs, arms, or eyes.”

“I agree with you so far, but let’s assume for a moment that you actually convince us that these words are not symbolic of reality. Why should we or others stop using them if there is greater satisfaction in continuing with them? Just because you teach us that using certain words, whatever they are, is wrong because they are a hurt, won’t necessarily stop their use.”

“No, it won’t, but the basic principle will. God is giving us no choice in this matter, as you will soon begin to understand.
From GS 'the map is not the countryside', words are not reality.


The bit about light is again is nonsense. Physical optic does describe how light interacts with an inject creating patters in the light, the 'image'.
All that is true. Optical theory is not being disputed. Again, you are creating a category error.
Pg. all your claims are subjective reasoning.
You're incorrect.
 

This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.

Of course it does! Her replies are as always ludicrous.

@peacegirl, Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?

Please give a straight answer in your own words.
I've given you my own words. You keep pressing me over and over because you want to catch me in an inconsistency.
 
Pg
You keep pressing me over and over because you want to catch me in an inconsistency.

What do you expect on a forum lie this? Anything anybody posts is fair game. Not just you.

You started the thread with a book saying

1. The greatest discovery of all time. It will end war and crime.
2. Science is all wrong about vision.
3. People fall in love with sex organs.
4. The eyes are not sense organs because of nerve endings.
5. It is rue with the certainty of math and science.

What did you expect the responses would be given your experience elsewhere.


'Inanity is trying the same failed approach over and over expecting a different result'.
 
He is using the word projection correctly and in context.
He is using it correctly as a metaphor. Otherwise, the brain would have to be emitting something, and you previously indicated that the brain is not emitting anything, specifically through the eyes.

You could say that the brain emits thoughts, although that would be an unusual manner of expression. That, too, would be more figurative than necessary.
 
Pg
All that is true. Optical theory is not being disputed. Again, you are creating a category error.

Saying light does not convey image to the eye with a delay is disputing coptical theory.

Do you understand?
 
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This is making me upset.

:sadcheer:
You didn't read the book. You didn't see how this discovery plays out. You are just talking out of the side of your mouth. You can't answer one question: Do you know why man's will is not free? Do you know the other side of the equation? Do you know anything about the new economic system that gives security to everyone? Do you know the tax structure? Do you know how the Great Transition will take place? Do you know how the medical profession changes so that profit would never be an overriding motive at the expense of others? Do you know why carelessness will be virtually eliminated? Do you know how children will be raised? Do you know why couples will stay together until death do they part? Do you know what the educational system will look like?

Do you know how it is logically possible for light to be at the eye instantly even as you concede it takes light time to get to the eye?
You have a block, Pood. Once again, this is not about distance or time in this version of sight.

That reply sidesteps the question.
I did not sidestep the question. You're not understanding how efferent vision works. There is no distance or time involved when looking at an object. Distance is interpreted by the brain. We know the moon is far away and an airplane is closer. Light becomes a condition of sight. It does not cause anything; it reveals.

How​

The brain interprets distance through a combination of sensory inputs and learned experiences. It uses binocular cues like convergence and retinal disparity to gauge depth and distance, especially for objects within ten meters. Monocular cues such as relative size and interposition are used for greater distances. The brain also considers environmental factors and the cognitive abilities of the individual, such as working memory and attention, to refine distance estimates. This complex interplay allows for a dynamic and adaptive estimation of distances, which is constantly updated as an individual interacts with their surroundings.
biologyinsights.com+2

That article doesn't support the claim of light at the eye/instant vision.

It's just another way of sidestepping the question.
The point I was making was that distance is interpreted by the brain through cues and a working memory that can tell us how far away or how close something is. An object could be as far away as the moon, or as close as a streetlight. It's through the learning process that we are able to interpret distance, which is why actual distance due to the speed of light (i.e., the afferent account) is not a factor in this version.

That's not how vision works. Nor does it describe how the authors claim of instant vision could possibly work. It's just the same claim rephrased without an explanation of the means or mechanisms that would make it possible.

The simple answer is, there are none. How vision works is well enough understood, as are the means that make it possible.
 
There is no distance or time involved when looking at an object.
OK.
Distance is interpreted by the brain.
Oh. So there IS distance involved.
Why did you just say there wasn't?
We know the moon is far away and an airplane is closer.
Again, distance. So why did you say "There is no distance or time involved", when according to your own next two statements, there IS distance involved?

If you are going to so blatantly contradict yourself, why would anybody believe or trust a single word you say?
 
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Pg
You keep pressing me over and over because you want to catch me in an inconsistency.

What do you expect on a forum lie this? Anything anybody posts is fair game. Not just you.

You started the thread with a book saying

1. The greatest discovery of all time. It will end war and crime.
It is.
2. Science is all wrong about vision.
I never said that they are wrong about vision. I said they are wrong about the eyes being a sense organ.
3. People fall in love with sex organs.
Why are you listening to Pood's mockery? He was part of a forum that destroyed this knowledge because they took things out of context purposely.
------------------------------

<snip>

Since these marriages will take place when boys and girls are very young, and since all psychological impediments to eating will be removed from birth, very few will be carrying excess weight. However, some boys and girls are naturally heavy, and there will be no reason for them to worry in the new world because, to certain people, this is a physical attraction. Indeed, we have already been conditioned to move in the direction of certain preferences, but we cannot be hurt when these individuals reject us at the very outset, and when other choices in a partner will never be directly or indirectly criticized. If a boy desires a type of girl like Elizabeth Taylor who does not desire his type, he is compelled to put the proverbial horse before the cart and search for the type of girl who is ready to have sex with him. He will then fall in love with her sexual organs and her features will become secondary because nobody will ever refer indirectly to her as ugly by calling other types beautiful, which in our present world could possibly make him regret his choice and keep an eye out for someone who would be looked upon by others as having more to offer in the way of physical appearance. But how is it possible for him to regret his choice when the world stops criticizing and when he has fallen head over heels for his sweetheart, which takes place after, not before, physical intimacy? That is to say, when the words “beautiful” and “ugly” become obsolete, and people are not conditioned to see this beauty and ugliness as part of the real world, there will be a much broader range of what people find appealing due to their personal likes and dislikes. Until these changes take place, if a person is attracted to someone who is not attracted to them — and they cannot find their ideal but are ready to settle down — they will look for someone ready for the same thing. Looks become a secondary consideration when no one criticizes their choice in a mate and when they fall more and more in love with the person who loves them in return. Once they consummate their union with a complete sexual relation, they will be married. They will have no choice in the matter of marriage as it will be their only source of sexual satisfaction, which I shall sum up by using mathematical phraseology.
4. The eyes are not sense organs because of nerve endings.
Why are you doing this, Steve?
5. It is rue with the certainty of math and science.

What did you expect the responses would be given your experience elsewhere.


'Inanity is trying the same failed approach over and over expecting a different result'.
There was no failed approach, only an approach that was in the wrong venue. Why didn't you answer my questions about what you understand? You answered nothing, which is typical of someone who cherry-picks.
 
Ok Pg

Then don't complain about thee responses you get. You know how it will go wherever you go.

The old saying 'No mater where you go there YOU are'.


Don't blame us for your inability to effectively communicate.

Don't blame us for Lessans' crazy book.
 
Pg
All that is true. Optical theory is not being disputed. Again, you are creating a category error.

Saying light does not convey image to the eye with a delay is disputing optical theory.

Do you understand?
??????

In optics image created from refection, scattering, and absorption of light by an inject is text book


I believe I posted PDFs of texts It is not something you can you can just glance through.
 
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Ok Pg

Then don't complain about thee responses you get. You know how it will go wherever you go.

The old saying 'No mater where you go there YOU are'.


Don't blame us for your inability to effectively communicate.

Don't blame us for Lessans' crazy book.
I'm not blaming you at all. Please don't talk to me if you call this book crazy. I have no desire to talk to you. I wish you the best, Steve, but your conclusions are so wrong, they're hard to stomach. 🤮
 
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