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Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?

Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Yes! Fuck your feelings!
Now grovel before the holy glory of the shithole of Trumpistan!
I think the intolerance of the right is less of a problem than intolerance from the left.
You “think” that do you?
Fuck your thoughts. They’re based on the fucking right wing misinformation you lap up.
How many right wing politicians have been murdered by left wingers, their houses invaded by would-be murderers or burned down?
Even violent attempts to neutralize the orange scourge have come from the right.

BTW, Zoid, intolerance of WHAT? lactose?
The main thing - almost the only thing - not tolerated by the left is TRUMP. And if you need to hear the reasons for that, just ask.

The right, OTOH has a litany of millions of people, their colors, nationalities and religions, that they hate, regularly vilify and threaten, and often kill or maim for no rational reason.
Maybe it’s different in Denmark or Moscow or wherever you are.
 
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The word "intolerance" is a bit of a scam. Think about it. The so-called Left is actually tolerating Trump. He's still the President. We do not have a violent leftist revolution. On the other hand, look at what material effects there are from the right-wing intolerance. Purging people from govt jobs, imprisoning enemies of Trump, kangaroo courts, special out-of-country concentration camps....
 
Yeah leftists are so intolerant of things like *checks notes* demonizing people as "vermin" because they're immigrants. The horror. Truly an example of pathological extremism.
 
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Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
 
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents
I’m sure that when you are tortured by your overlords you heap praise upon them, hypocrite.
They have different values,
Yeah, one of them is that the The Others (everyone but them) is subhuman.
FUCK their bigoted “values”.
there's books and shit on this
Yet you feel the need to heap MORE shit on it. Just you being you, right, Z?
 
Yeah leftists are so intolerant of things like *checks notes* demonizing people as "vermin" because they're immigrants. The horror. Truly an example of pathological extremism.

Demonizing people as vermin because they are immigrants is an extremist view. Extremist views from the left is also a thing. It's all a bit silly really.
 
Yeah leftists are so intolerant of things like *checks notes* demonizing people as "vermin" because they're immigrants. The horror. Truly an example of pathological extremism.

Demonizing people as vermin because they are immigrants is an extremist view. Extremist views from the left is also a thing. It's all a bit silly really.

The Leftist President isn't rounding up the people poisoning our blood because we do not have such a President. Try to stay on-topic.
 
Yeah leftists are so intolerant of things like *checks notes* demonizing people as "vermin" because they're immigrants. The horror. Truly an example of pathological extremism.

Demonizing people as vermin because they are immigrants is an extremist view. Extremist views from the left is also a thing. It's all a bit silly really.

The Leftist President isn't rounding up the people poisoning our blood because we do not have such a President. Try to stay on-topic.
And what's the "leftist extremist" view that's "just as bad" as saying immigrants are vermin? There isn't one. I predict whatever the right wingers come up with will be a total straw man, of course.
 
It doesn't matter how high ideals you have, we need to leave space for dissenting views. Woke needs to die.
But 'woke' IS a dissenting view. Your complaint is that it dissents too loudly for you. It never bothered me. As far as I can see, woke was confined to colledge campuses.

Sure. But I think its perfectly valid to be intolerant of intolerance even if it is a contradiction. I don't see a problem.

And to be clear, my problem with woke is the intolerance of it. The progressive stuff it comes packaged with I largely support.
You seem to be totally unaware of the rigid and outspoken intolerance of the Right in the US. That makes you seem to be utterly clueless.

I also think that's a problem. But right now I think the intolerance of the right is less of a problem than intolerance from the left.

I don't like intolerance on any side. In an intolerant climate its harder and harder to feel at home anywhere for us liberals
Absolute rubbish
 
Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
And what exactly are 'conservative values' that you share with the president? Please, I would like to know.
 
Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
You might want to read that again. "Fuck your feelings" is a conservative phrase.

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The day when the right to free expression is a uniquely conservative value... that would be a terrible world.
The right is all about that. That’s why trump says anyone disagreeing with him is a criminal. People who held him account, people who tell the truth about him, people who tslk about Epstein - lock ‘em up snd THEN everyone else can have freedom of speech.
You never heard that kind of bullshit from a Democrat.
 
Dr Zoidberg, any thoughts on the murders of Melissa and Mark Hortman, the shootings of John and Yvettee Hoffman, and the attempted shooting of Hope Hoffman? No?
 
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Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
Right-wingers are dehumanizing themselves. For instance, Charlie Kirk's remarks about empathy:
"I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that - it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics".
This is a sentiment shared by Republican politicians and millions of their followers. That is different values alright.

Of course conservatives , like all humans, have feelings, but they don't care about hurting other people. One of those values they don't have is empathy, and another is tolerance. They also aren't very rational.
You have claimed many times that you are a leftist and a liberal, yet continually spout right-wing mantras.
Do you know who else has feelings? Children. But hundreds of them can't express those feelings because they got shot dead at school.

 
Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
Right-wingers are dehumanizing themselves. For instance, Charlie Kirk's remarks about empathy:
"I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that - it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics".
This is a sentiment shared by Republican politicians and millions of their followers. That is different values alright.

But you know the context. The woke narrative is that everyone should be protected from feeling bad and hearing hurty words. Wokes often use "empathy" as a weapon against anyone doing anything. If Charlie Kirk really said that, I suspect that's what he meant. Obviously he's for empathy. Everybody is. What sets us apart is what we do with it.

Having empathy doesn't mean we always need to rush to the aid of whoever cries the loudest. Wokes often have an absurd relation to empathy. People suffer. We can't protect everyone from everything.


Of course conservatives , like all humans, have feelings, but they don't care about hurting other people. One of those values they don't have is empathy, and another is tolerance. They also aren't very rational.

Something conservatives tend to be good at and leftists bad at is acknowledging the trade-offs. Acknowledging that everything has a cost and willing to discuss what the cost of a policy is. Do you think perhaps, that's what he meant?

You have claimed many times that you are a leftist and a liberal, yet continually spout right-wing mantras.

I'm sorry that I don't spout the correct left wing mantras aproved by the party. My opposition to woke is that I think it hurts the left. The fact that an utter clown like Trump manages to get elected in USA, I think is a direct result of wokeism. Same goes for Brexit in the UK. And that a far right party, The Sweden Democrats, is the second largest political party in Sweden now. I blame woke.


Do you know who else has feelings? Children. But hundreds of them can't express those feelings because they got shot dead at school.

Where the fuck did that comment come from? How is that related to anything I have said, or even anything in this thread. Don't you think that it might be absurd statements like that which Charlie Kirk might have had top of mind when making that comment? If he in fact made that comment.

And if you are still confused I'll walk you through it. Everyone has strong feelings about children getting hurt. The image of a dead shot child is a strong visual. Everyone has empathy about that. Your statement (out of nowhere) is to connect it to the previous paragraph. You're trying to associate what I said previously to me arguing for children being murdered. Apart from not being true, it's incredibly manipulative. It's woke.

Congratulations on demonstrating why everyone should hate woke.

You have no idea what my stance is on gun control. Here's a hint, I'm on the left.
 
Dr Zoidberg, any thoughts on the murders of Melissa and Mark Hortman, the shootings of John and Yvettee Hoffman, and the attempted shooting of Hope Hoffman?

I think any murder is bad. The murder of an elected official in a democracy is catastrophically bad.


Why did you assume I wouldn't have strong feelings against it?
 
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Have we agreed yet on an actual definition of fascism? I think Madeleine Albright has the right idea when she defines it as a method to gain power, rather than any particular "ideology" to pursue once power is gained. This certainly fits Trump whose only "ideology", beyond greedy grifting, is whatever whim flavored his latest wet-dream.

The Third Earl Russell, prominent logician and philosopher who won the Nobel Prize for Literature, did a great job of describing fascist take-over:

Bertrand Russell said:
The first step in a fascist movement is the combination under an energetic leader of a number of men who possess more than the average share of leisure, brutality, and stupidity. The next step is to fascinate fools and muzzle the intelligent, by emotional excitement on the one hand and terrorism on the other.

Litteral fascism is a movement and a culture that only could exist in a very particular society. That context is gone.

Littoral fascism denotes despotic rule by demagoguery in a coastal region. The Orange Despot rules (or rather misrules) riparian regions, mountains and plains as well as the coasts.

Perhaps you intended "literal fascism" and, in your mind, equated this with "Fascism with a capital F," and that you interpreted the capital letter as providing specificity, i.e. denoting only the political party of Benito Mussolini who coined the word.

In America, democratic and Democratic are two different words, as are republican and Republican. (Indeed that latter capitalized party has renounced its lower-case aspiration.) But Fascism is now treated as synonymous with fascism. We've not agreed on a definition yet, but Merriam-Webster (with its "often Fascism") at least disposes of your apparent misconception about the capitalization.

Merriam-Webster said:

fascism​

noun​


fas·cism ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-

plural fascisms

1 often Fascism : a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition.

But there's plenty of fascistic tendencies in modern movements. That's what people mean.

:confused2: Without examples of what you consider to be "fascist tendencies" your claims are fatuous (and almost tautologous).
 
Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
Right-wingers are dehumanizing themselves. For instance, Charlie Kirk's remarks about empathy:
"I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that - it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics".
This is a sentiment shared by Republican politicians and millions of their followers. That is different values alright.

But you know the context. The woke narrative is that everyone should be protected from feeling bad and hearing hurty words. Wokes often use "empathy" as a weapon against anyone doing anything. If Charlie Kirk really said that, I suspect that's what he meant. Obviously he's for empathy. Everybody is. What sets us apart is what we do with it.

Having empathy doesn't mean we always need to rush to the aid of whoever cries the loudest. Wokes often have an absurd relation to empathy. People suffer. We can't protect everyone from everything.
You have a strange view of what 'woke' means. Here is a googled definition:
"Woke" originally meant being aware of social injustices, particularly racial discrimination, and originated in African-American English. Over time, its meaning has broadened to include awareness of other social inequalities, but it has also become a politically charged term used as both a compliment for progressive awareness and a derogatory slur for those perceived as excessively liberal or politically correct. The modern, politicized usage is often defined by the user's own political stance."
Nowhere is this definition is there any mention of feelings or being hurt - those are things right-wingers and people pretending to be leftists complain not having themselves respected for. Everybody is not for empathy. Having empathy covers many things, and one of those is helping others if we can, not deliberately harming them. Yeah people suffer, but that doesn't mean that governments and fascist groups should be allowed to go for maximum sadistic behaviour.
Who ever claimed that we must protect everyone from everything? That is nonsense.
Of course conservatives , like all humans, have feelings, but they don't care about hurting other people. One of those values they don't have is empathy, and another is tolerance. They also aren't very rational.

Something conservatives tend to be good at and leftists bad at is acknowledging the trade-offs. Acknowledging that everything has a cost and willing to discuss what the cost of a policy is. Do you think perhaps, that's what he meant?

You have claimed many times that you are a leftist and a liberal, yet continually spout right-wing mantras.

I'm sorry that I don't spout the correct left wing mantras aproved by the party. My opposition to woke is that I think it hurts the left. The fact that an utter clown like Trump manages to get elected in USA, I think is a direct result of wokeism. Same goes for Brexit in the UK. And that a far right party, The Sweden Democrats, is the second largest political party in Sweden now. I blame woke.


Do you know who else has feelings? Children. But hundreds of them can't express those feelings because they got shot dead at school.

Where the fuck did that comment come from? How is that related to anything I have said, or even anything in this thread. Don't you think that it might be absurd statements like that which Charlie Kirk might have had top of mind when making that comment? If he in fact made that comment.

And if you are still confused I'll walk you through it. Everyone has strong feelings about children getting hurt. The image of a dead shot child is a strong visual. Everyone has empathy about that. Your statement (out of nowhere) is to connect it to the previous paragraph. You're trying to associate what I said previously to me arguing for children being murdered. Apart from not being true, it's incredibly manipulative. It's woke.

Congratulations on demonstrating why everyone should hate woke.

You have no idea what my stance is on gun control. Here's a hint, I'm on the left.
Conservatives are not good at trade-offs. They are mainly only good at doing what they want to do, often irrational ideas. They are very ideological. What do you mean by "a cost"? Is that a variant of "no pain, no gain" which they like applying to others, but not themselves.
If you mean economic cost, they are very poor at economic management, and incapable of foreseeing consequences.
Kirk meant what his words said, you don't have to and shouldn't interpret him.

Brexit in UK happened for several reasons, including the government not allowing time for debate prior to the referendum, and their spreading lies, plus the strange way their referendum voting works where a simple, narrow margin wins.
It wasn't "wokeism" but stupidity, complacence, and an out of date voting system that gave Trump the win.
Yeah, despite claiming to be a leftist and a liberal, you keep spouting the right-wing propaganda.
I myself am neither a leftist or liberal, yet can see the ignorance and ill-logic of the right-wing viewpoints.

You can't see a connection between the concept of empathy and the shooting of children, hence showing you yourself have no empathy, and then have the gall to repeat the false claim that everyone has empathy.
Typical right-wing tactic when someone has a different view to you to call them 'woke' with an intentional derogatory meaning attached to that word. Hating woke is also right-wing ideology.
As to your stance is on gun control, why don't you tell us, because based on your usual zeitgeist it is strong support for the current American interpretation of their Second Amendment.
 
Mutual respect is the only way forward
You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?
Congratulations on dehumanizing your political opponents

Of course conservatives also have feelings. They have different values, so have their feelings triggered by other things

Its not like this should be news to you, there's books and shit on this
Right-wingers are dehumanizing themselves. For instance, Charlie Kirk's remarks about empathy:
"I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that - it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics".
This is a sentiment shared by Republican politicians and millions of their followers. That is different values alright.

But you know the context. The woke narrative is that everyone should be protected from feeling bad and hearing hurty words. Wokes often use "empathy" as a weapon against anyone doing anything. If Charlie Kirk really said that, I suspect that's what he meant. Obviously he's for empathy. Everybody is. What sets us apart is what we do with it.

Having empathy doesn't mean we always need to rush to the aid of whoever cries the loudest. Wokes often have an absurd relation to empathy. People suffer. We can't protect everyone from everything.
You have a strange view of what 'woke' means. Here is a googled definition:
"Woke" originally meant being aware of social injustices, particularly racial discrimination, and originated in African-American English. Over time, its meaning has broadened to include awareness of other social inequalities, but it has also become a politically charged term used as both a compliment for progressive awareness and a derogatory slur for those perceived as excessively liberal or politically correct. The modern, politicized usage is often defined by the user's own political stance."
Nowhere is this definition is there any mention of feelings or being hurt - those are things right-wingers and people pretending to be leftists complain not having themselves respected for. Everybody is not for empathy. Having empathy covers many things, and one of those is helping others if we can, not deliberately harming them. Yeah people suffer, but that doesn't mean that governments and fascist groups should be allowed to go for maximum sadistic behaviour.

The meaning of woke has changed over time. Today, I'd argue, it only means liberal intolerance. I don't think it even means "excessively liberal and politically correct", anymore. That used to be what it means. Now I think it means to demand everyone has liberal values.


Who ever claimed that we must protect everyone from everything? That is nonsense.

I don't think it's nonsense. It's even more. I think woke is that we must protect everyone from ever feeling bad. The fact that someone feels bad is enough to warrant action to protect them. Which is at odds with free speech.

Or are you upset I didn't start with a trigger warning?



You can't see a connection between the concept of empathy and the shooting of children, hence showing you yourself have no empathy, and then have the gall to repeat the false claim that everyone has empathy.
Typical right-wing tactic when someone has a different view to you to call them 'woke' with an intentional derogatory meaning attached to that word. Hating woke is also right-wing ideology.

ha ha. I caught you with your pants down. What a pathetic attempt at defending yourself. You're going to have to do better than this.

Why don't you start by explaining why you brought up the dead children?


As to your stance is on gun control, why don't you tell us, because based on your usual zeitgeist it is strong support for the current American interpretation of their Second Amendment.


I don't give a fuck about the second amendment. I'm European. I don't think constitutions are sacred objects. If a constitution isn't working we can just change it, to something that is. I find Americans obsession with their immutable constitution strange. And it's not even immutable. That's what the amendments are about. You have changed it in the past. Why not do it again?
 
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