Are we now in full blown fascist totalitarianism?

[robnisch]

I wish there was a way we could agree on the meaning of key words here.
I know it will never happen, but it would be nice.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Have we agreed yet on an actual definition of fascism? I think Madeleine Albright has the right idea when she defines it as a method to gain power, rather than any particular "ideology" to pursue once power is gained.

I don't understand why it can't be both. Even if Trump himself doesn't believe in an ideology per se, that doesn't mean he doesn't understand to some extent that furthering an ideology is useful for keeping power. Why else would he be saying things like "let's forget about separation of Church and state"? And they are clearly attempting to make America into a Christian nation. We know this is happening.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

US judge permanently blocks Trump order requiring voters to prove citizenship

A federal judge found that part of the order was illegal because the U.S. Constitution gives states, not the president, the power to oversee elections.

www.reuters.com

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You Can't Refuse To Be Scanned by ICE's Facial Recognition App, DHS Document Says

Photos captured by Mobile Fortify will be stored for 15 years, regardless of immigration or citizenship status, the document says.

www.404media.co

Brought to you by the party of freedumb and small gubmint.

 

[unapologetic]

Is there a way to change the title of this thread?
It is not a question anymore.
Change "Are We Now..." to "We Are Now..."

 

[unapologetic]

Woke is a demand that everyone signs up to the leftist ideals.

MAGA is a demand that everyone signs up to the rightist ideals.

The problem with the woke mindset is that it doesn't leave room for a discussion.

The problem with the Republican/MAGA mindset is that it doesn't leave room for discussion.

The tone of political debate needs to be less extreme.

Too late for that.

 

[Elixir]

Woke is a demand that everyone signs up to the leftist ideals.

MAGA is a demand that everyone signs up to the rightist ideals.

The problem with the woke mindset is that it doesn't leave room for a discussion.

The problem with the Republican/MAGA mindset is that it doesn't leave room for discussion.

The tone of political debate needs to be less extreme.

Too late for that.

The tone is set at the top.
Failure to adopt it is an assignment to irrelevance.
Note that polarization gets extreme when Republicans are at the top.
None of this shit was happening when “Hussein” Obama was the president. Or even when sleepy Joe was quietly repairing the damage done by Cheato Episode One.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Felony dropped after a man spent a month in a Tennessee jail for a Charlie Kirk post

Authorities in Tennessee have dropped a felony charge against Larry Bushart, who spent over a month in jail for a Facebook post about the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

apnews.com

Being opposed to Kirk and saying so gets 5 weeks in jail and then charges dropped because he never should have been arrested in the first place. But trump pardons a thousand insurrectionists. It is the fascist state we live in.

Come on, that isn't like they delayed his tax exempt status.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Judge Permanently Bars Trump From Requiring Proof of Citizenship for Voter Registration

The ruling on Friday found that Trump had usurped the power vested in Congress and the states to administer and oversee elections protocols.

www.nytimes.com

The "law and order" party doesn't like this.

 

[lostone]

MSN

Just face up to what Trump is

 

[DrZoidberg]

Woke is a demand that everyone signs up to the leftist ideals.

MAGA is a demand that everyone signs up to the rightist ideals.

I hope you are wrong. The day when the right to free expression is a uniquely conservative value... that would be a terrible world.

The problem with the woke mindset is that it doesn't leave room for a discussion.

The problem with the Republican/MAGA mindset is that it doesn't leave room for discussion.

I don't think that's true

The tone of political debate needs to be less extreme.

Too late for that.

No. The moment we think that extremism is the only political option then democracy is doomed. We have plenty of examples from history.

We need to find a way to de-escalate the extremism, or we're fucked. So I will simply refuse to accept its too late. I might be fighting windmills. But its a hill I am willing to die on.

Mutual respect is the only way forward

 

[DrZoidberg]

Have we agreed yet on an actual definition of fascism? I think Madeleine Albright has the right idea when she defines it as a method to gain power, rather than any particular "ideology" to pursue once power is gained. This certainly fits Trump whose only "ideology", beyond greedy grifting, is whatever whim flavored his latest wet-dream.

The Third Earl Russell, prominent logician and philosopher who won the Nobel Prize for Literature, did a great job of describing fascist take-over:

The first step in a fascist movement is the combination under an energetic leader of a number of men who possess more than the average share of leisure, brutality, and stupidity. The next step is to fascinate fools and muzzle the intelligent, by emotional excitement on the one hand and terrorism on the other.

Litteral fascism is a movement and a culture that only could exist in a very particular society. That context is gone.


But there's plenty of fascistic tendencies in modern movements. That's what people mean.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It doesn't matter how high ideals you have, we need to leave space for dissenting views. Woke needs to die.

But 'woke' IS a dissenting view. Your complaint is that it dissents too loudly for you. It never bothered me. As far as I can see, woke was confined to colledge campuses.

Sure. But I think its perfectly valid to be intolerant of intolerance even if it is a contradiction. I don't see a problem.

And to be clear, my problem with woke is the intolerance of it. The progressive stuff it comes packaged with I largely support.

 

[lostone]

It doesn't matter how high ideals you have, we need to leave space for dissenting views. Woke needs to die.

But 'woke' IS a dissenting view. Your complaint is that it dissents too loudly for you. It never bothered me. As far as I can see, woke was confined to colledge campuses.

Sure. But I think its perfectly valid to be intolerant of intolerance even if it is a contradiction. I don't see a problem.

And to be clear, my problem with woke is the intolerance of it. The progressive stuff it comes packaged with I largely support.

You seem to be totally unaware of the rigid and outspoken intolerance of the Right in the US. That makes you seem to be utterly clueless.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It doesn't matter how high ideals you have, we need to leave space for dissenting views. Woke needs to die.

But 'woke' IS a dissenting view. Your complaint is that it dissents too loudly for you. It never bothered me. As far as I can see, woke was confined to colledge campuses.

Sure. But I think its perfectly valid to be intolerant of intolerance even if it is a contradiction. I don't see a problem.

And to be clear, my problem with woke is the intolerance of it. The progressive stuff it comes packaged with I largely support.

You seem to be totally unaware of the rigid and outspoken intolerance of the Right in the US. That makes you seem to be utterly clueless.

I also think that's a problem. But right now I think the intolerance of the right is less of a problem than intolerance from the left.

I don't like intolerance on any side. In an intolerant climate its harder and harder to feel at home anywhere for us liberals

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump's National Guard deployments aren't random. They were planned years ago

It wasn't something that Trump just talked about. In 2017, The Associated Press reported on a memo it obtained from DHS, outlining a draft proposal to use the National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants throughout the U.S. At the time, the White House denied it, saying there was no such plan.

Taylor says there very much was — but it was also more than that.

"It was the invocation of the Insurrection Act to deputize the military to enforce domestic law to basically become a domestic police force," he says, noting that this particular idea was something that troubled him and several other staffers.

"It rocked us to our core," he says.

Trump invoking the Insurrection Act would legally allow for the military to act as police on U.S. soil — to carry out immigration enforcement, but possibly other enforcement too, according to legal experts.

NPR asked the White House about potential plans to deputize the Guard for law enforcement and to use the Insurrection Act, but it did not directly respond to those questions, instead criticizing Taylor and NPR. Spokeswoman Abigail Jackson also referenced Trump's "highly successful operations to drive down violent crime in American cities."

I think this really needs to be put in a larger context of other events. There are so many...that I cannot possibly cover them all, but here are some.

1. Trump ordering his party years later not to negotiate with Democrats to solve any immigration issues, to let the immigration numbers increase without resolution during Biden's administration.
2. Trump going on rampages against decent media sources such as NPR who might call him on such things.
3. Trump surrounding himself with Yes-men to a far greater extent this current administration.
4. A very detailed plan of execution and attempts at a legal framework years in the making--Project 2025--along with associated people in his administration to carry out the plans.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It doesn't matter how high ideals you have, we need to leave space for dissenting views. Woke needs to die.

But 'woke' IS a dissenting view. Your complaint is that it dissents too loudly for you. It never bothered me. As far as I can see, woke was confined to colledge campuses.

Sure. But I think its perfectly valid to be intolerant of intolerance even if it is a contradiction. I don't see a problem.

And to be clear, my problem with woke is the intolerance of it. The progressive stuff it comes packaged with I largely support.

You seem to be totally unaware of the rigid and outspoken intolerance of the Right in the US. That makes you seem to be utterly clueless.

I also think that's a problem. But right now I think the intolerance of the right is less of a problem than intolerance from the left.

You're completely wrong, no matter how much you insist it's true. And it's already been explained to you multiple times why you're wrong, so you are just choosing to be willfully ignorant.

 

[ZiprHead]

Mutual respect is the only way forward

You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?

 

[ZiprHead]

2 Illinois National Guard members speak out: "I won't turn against my neighbors"

Staff Sgt. Demi Palecek and Capt. Dylan Blaha say they'll defy federal orders regarding Trump's immigration enforcement operation in Chicago.

www.cbsnews.com

Chicago — Two Illinois National Guard members told CBS News they would refuse to obey federal orders to deploy in Chicago as part of President Trump's controversial immigration enforcement mission — a rare act of open defiance from within the military ranks.

"It's disheartening to be forced to go against your community members and your neighbors," said Staff Sgt. Demi Palecek, a Latina guardswoman and state legislative candidate from Illinois's 13th District. "It feels illegal. This is not what we signed up to do."

Both Palecek and Capt. Dylan Blaha, who is running for Congress in the same district, described growing unease among Guard members after the White House federalized 500 troops – including members of the Illinois and Texas National Guard – to secure federal immigration facilities and personnel in the Chicago area.

"I signed up to defend the American people and protect the Constitution," Blaha said. "When we have somebody in power who's actively dismantling our rights — free speech, due process, freedom of the press — it's really hard to be a soldier right now."

There are others starting to refuse deployment on the basis of disobeying illegal orders.

There are still guardsmen in DC doing gardening and landscaping.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Mutual respect is the only way forward

You want us to have respect for the people that say "Fuck your feelings."?

Or the (same) people who don't value human life and don't care if people die from preventable diseases? How are you getting "mutual respect" from them? Or the (same) people who are OK with forcing children to give birth to their rapist's baby? Fuck your "mutual respect".