George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[Nice Squirrel]

Squirrel,

I meant "sanctioned" in a more general sense - as in it was a contest with some form of officiating. I'm not claiming he was a trained fighter any more than Zimmerman was a buff mixed martial artist. It's more about what the individuals thought they were.

You have godlike powers to know what these individuals "thought they were"? Because a lot of weak individuals will puff themselves up to be appear to have a some sort of efficacy but feel powerless inside. Also, an individual's feelings and self-concepts change do to situations. We can assume Zimmerman was upset because of his statement that "they get away" and Martin was scared when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him, but even that is uncertain.

Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability.

So you have evidence of Martin's fighting abilities? You characterized him as an adept fighter with experience, others have characterized him as an expert in hand-to-hand combat, but other then a couple of novice and questionable examples of fighting we have no evidence that he had special abilities or aptitude.

Some folks are naturals and some folks aren't. I'm not claiming either - are you? How do you know Martin's experience would not elevate him up from a milktoast who can't fight at all?

The current evidence does not point to Martin having any special skills. If he did have special skills or knowledge you would have thought one of his friends would have told him "hey great job at the gym" or bragged about his abilities on social media. It probably would have been brought up in court as it would be relevant to the defense of Zimmerman.

 

[Medicine Man]

Zimmerman Assault Case Dropped
January 30, 2015

"An aggravated assault case against George Zimmerman that was opened when his ex-girlfriend said he threw a wine bottle at her has been dropped because she recanted her story and stopped cooperating with investigators, a prosecutor said Friday.

The ex-girlfriend had made it clear she didn't want the case to proceed, and there were no other eyewitnesses to what happened earlier this month, Archer said.

"While it is clear that the officers had probable cause to arrest Mr. Zimmerman ... the subsequent recantation by the victim of her initial statement ... precludes my office from proceeding further," Archer said in a statement.

Officers patrolling the neighborhood where Zimmerman lives three weeks ago heard the sound of glass shattering, and then saw the former girlfriend drive out of the driveway. They pulled her over for a traffic stop a few streets over because she didn't have her lights on.

She explained that Zimmerman became angry after she told him she didn't want to take the relationship further, and said they also argued over a painting she had that he wanted returned. Zimmerman made threats and threw the wine bottle, which didn't hit her, she said at the time. Officers described her as crying and upset."

<snip>

 

[Rhea]

One wonders whether Judge Zimmerman has any contact with these women who decide not to press charges. Either directly or through representatives.

 

[EPresence2]

You have godlike powers to know what these individuals "thought they were"? Because a lot of weak individuals will puff themselves up to be appear to have a some sort of efficacy but feel powerless inside. Also, an individual's feelings and self-concepts change do to situations. We can assume Zimmerman was upset because of his statement that "they get away" and Martin was scared when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him, but even that is uncertain.

Careful suggesting words in my mouth Squirrel - I did not claim to have godlike powers to know anything. It's a open question that your godlike powers seems to have answered. Just because someone is following him in a truck, in a gated neighborhood, does not necessary make Martin fear for his life. And saying "they always get away" does mean he intended to detain Martin. The bridge between your dots is precarious.

Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability.

So you have evidence of Martin's fighting abilities? You characterized him as an adept fighter with experience, others have characterized him as an expert in hand-to-hand combat, but other then a couple of novice and questionable examples of fighting we have no evidence that he had special abilities or aptitude.

Do you have evidence of his Casper Milktoast status or what he thought of his abilities? Are you claiming he had no experience fighting? And where have I claimed he had special abilities? I'm beginning to think you just like to argue - no surprise there considering our participation on this board.

 

[Bronzeage]

You have godlike powers to know what these individuals "thought they were"? Because a lot of weak individuals will puff themselves up to be appear to have a some sort of efficacy but feel powerless inside. Also, an individual's feelings and self-concepts change do to situations. We can assume Zimmerman was upset because of his statement that "they get away" and Martin was scared when he asked Zimmerman why he was following him, but even that is uncertain.

Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability.

So you have evidence of Martin's fighting abilities? You characterized him as an adept fighter with experience, others have characterized him as an expert in hand-to-hand combat, but other then a couple of novice and questionable examples of fighting we have no evidence that he had special abilities or aptitude.

Some folks are naturals and some folks aren't. I'm not claiming either - are you? How do you know Martin's experience would not elevate him up from a milktoast who can't fight at all?

The current evidence does not point to Martin having any special skills. If he did have special skills or knowledge you would have thought one of his friends would have told him "hey great job at the gym" or bragged about his abilities on social media. It probably would have been brought up in court as it would be relevant to the defense of Zimmerman.

Street fighting is not a special skill, but I can testify, getting your ass kicked a couple times is an incredibly effective training technique. One of the first things you learn is to get in the first hit(punch, kick, whatever) and make it count. The only goal of a street fight is to make the other person decide the fight was a very bad idea and to make this decision very quickly. Martin seems to have accomplished that much.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not going to repeat things I've said on this thread or connect the dots for you. E2 was done with this thread a few pages back, and that's mostly true (exception being what I wrote to Athena et al. that connected with another thread). What I've said is documented in earlier pages, interspersed with wonderful unbiased commentary from the peanut gallery.

In other words, Rhea, no he won't answer because he knows his premise:

You may also want to reconsider the possibility that Martin was a jerk/bully to maintain your party line.

has zero basis in anything factual. It is simply slandering an innocent teenager who was killed by an aggressive violent killer

Not only that, but it totally irrelevant. Even if Martin was a bully/jerk, someone still has to make up a lot in order to justify his killing. Really, the lengths some people will go to justify their biases and/or bigotry is truly depressing.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Zimmerman Assault Case Dropped
January 30, 2015

"An aggravated assault case against George Zimmerman that was opened when his ex-girlfriend said he threw a wine bottle at her has been dropped because she recanted her story and stopped cooperating with investigators, a prosecutor said Friday.

The ex-girlfriend had made it clear she didn't want the case to proceed, and there were no other eyewitnesses to what happened earlier this month, Archer said.

"While it is clear that the officers had probable cause to arrest Mr. Zimmerman ... the subsequent recantation by the victim of her initial statement ... precludes my office from proceeding further," Archer said in a statement.

Officers patrolling the neighborhood where Zimmerman lives three weeks ago heard the sound of glass shattering, and then saw the former girlfriend drive out of the driveway. They pulled her over for a traffic stop a few streets over because she didn't have her lights on.

She explained that Zimmerman became angry after she told him she didn't want to take the relationship further, and said they also argued over a painting she had that he wanted returned. Zimmerman made threats and threw the wine bottle, which didn't hit her, she said at the time. Officers described her as crying and upset."

Sounds like a typical domestic case. There are some states that will continue to prosecute after the recantation, but there have to be special circumstances.

 

[EPresence2]

Laughing Dog,

In other words, Rhea, no he won't answer because he knows his premise:

You may also want to reconsider the possibility that Martin was a jerk/bully to maintain your party line.

has zero basis in anything factual. It is simply slandering an innocent teenager who was killed by an aggressive violent killer

Actually Raven, I did later answer her question despite the fact it was already answered earlier in the thread. But I know how easy it is to miss posts. I am also not claiming Martin was a jerk/bully. Does the possibility have zero basis in anything factual? Jimmy Higgins (paragon of freethought) thinks otherwise.

How about addressing this. I agree, the bias and bigotry is depressing.

 

[Rhea]

It would have taken you less time to just answer the question than to write this.

I doubt that - which is why I wrote this. But you could be right. What the hell, here you go: Jimmy said that Martin could have been a jerk/bully. If Martin was a jerk/bully and there is reasonable doubt that Z attempted to detain him... it stands to reason that Martin may have punched Z for having the audacity to confront him. I've said this already in this thread, but without the explicit statement that M could have been a jerk/bully; only that we don't know much about him.

How about addressing this.

You were writing that in response to a comment that said, "even if he was a jerk or a bully, why does that make death an appropriate response?"

And I don't think you've said anything that changes the obvious answer away from, "it doesn't. Even if he were a jerk or a bully, death is not the appropriate response to that."

I mean, if you look at Zimmerman's own record(s) of violence, does this mean it was appropriate for someone to have shot and killed him, what, SIX different times now?

1. When he punched the undercover cop, should the cop have shot him?
2. When he smashed his wife's tablet and threatened her, should she have been okay shooting him to death for that?
3. When he threw that drunk woman down on the floor - appropriate for her to get up and kill him?
4. When he smashed his girlfriend's glass table, should she have just shot him instead of leaving?
5. When he shouted at that motorist, "I'm going to kill you!" the guy would have been right to pull out a gun and shoot him dead?
6. And when he threw this wine bottle against the wall at his girlfriend, instead of crying and leaving and getting pulled over by the cops, would it have been justifiable, in your mind, for her to just shoot him dead at home, instead?

I don't get your logic.
Yes. Even if Martin had been a jerk or a bully, yes, the shooting/murder was STILL unjustified.
He's a very lucky man that the rest of the world doesn't feel entitled to what he feels entitled to. Yanno? I mean, YOU KNOW!?

(edited to add, although if that first undercover cop had just shot him for being a "dangerous thug," Trayvon Martin would still be alive today.)

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Careful suggesting words in my mouth Squirrel - I did not claim to have godlike powers to know anything. It's a open question that your godlike powers seems to have answered. Just because someone is following him in a truck, in a gated neighborhood, does not necessary make Martin fear for his life. And saying "they always get away" does mean he intended to detain Martin. The bridge between your dots is precarious.

Actually I was referring to "It's more about what the individuals thought they were."

How would we know "what the individuals thought they were" without knowing their actual thoughts? I'm sure you could find examples of many individuals claiming all sorts of abilities that they don't have on social media. But do they actually believe them? And if you were frightened would they believe the same thing about who they were? I know I feel different all the time. Sometimes I am a quite competent, other situations doubting my abilities. What I think I am usually depends upon the circumstances.

So I question anyone's ability to know what another person "thinks they are", especially internet psychologists like ourselves. This is my objection to giving weight of the actual evidence over to: "It's more about what the individuals thought they were." Because there is know way of knowing their thoughts especially at the time of confrontation.

Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability.

So you have evidence of Martin's fighting abilities? You characterized him as an adept fighter with experience, others have characterized him as an expert in hand-to-hand combat, but other then a couple of novice and questionable examples of fighting we have no evidence that he had special abilities or aptitude.

Do you have evidence of his Casper Milktoast status or what he thought of his abilities? Are you claiming he had no experience fighting? And where have I claimed he had special abilities? I'm beginning to think you just like to argue - no surprise there considering our participation on this board.

Do you have evidence of his Casper Milktoast status or what he thought of his abilities?

I've not claimed he was a milquetoast and as pointed out have no special powers that allow me access to his self conception or thoughts. Why someone is trying to argue on the basis of a person's thoughts, which we can never know, is a mystery to me. It like a strange grasping for justification. Even if Martin believed himself to be all those things that have been attributed including formal training in hand-to-hand combat, it does not tell us one iota of how he felt about his abilities when confronted by Zimmerman. From the scale of "I can take this guy out" to "Shit, I am in over my head" we have no possible way of knowing Martin or Zimmerman's thoughts at the time of the confrontation.

Back to the milquetoast, once again I am not stating that Martin was anything of the sort, but we have no evidence of his actual skills as a fighter beyond that of a beginner. Zimmerman we do have evidence and testimony about his experience and abilities, and these can and have been argued.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Street fighting is not a special skill, but I can testify, getting your ass kicked a couple times is an incredibly effective training technique. One of the first things you learn is to get in the first hit(punch, kick, whatever) and make it count. The only goal of a street fight is to make the other person decide the fight was a very bad idea and to make this decision very quickly. Martin seems to have accomplished that much.

This is true and could very well be the way it went down.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Zimmerman Assault Case Dropped
January 30, 2015

"An aggravated assault case against George Zimmerman that was opened when his ex-girlfriend said he threw a wine bottle at her has been dropped because she recanted her story and stopped cooperating with investigators, a prosecutor said Friday.

The ex-girlfriend had made it clear she didn't want the case to proceed, and there were no other eyewitnesses to what happened earlier this month, Archer said.

"While it is clear that the officers had probable cause to arrest Mr. Zimmerman ... the subsequent recantation by the victim of her initial statement ... precludes my office from proceeding further," Archer said in a statement.

Officers patrolling the neighborhood where Zimmerman lives three weeks ago heard the sound of glass shattering, and then saw the former girlfriend drive out of the driveway. They pulled her over for a traffic stop a few streets over because she didn't have her lights on.

She explained that Zimmerman became angry after she told him she didn't want to take the relationship further, and said they also argued over a painting she had that he wanted returned. Zimmerman made threats and threw the wine bottle, which didn't hit her, she said at the time. Officers described her as crying and upset."

Sounds like a typical domestic case. There are some states that will continue to prosecute after the recantation, but there have to be special circumstances.

Poor Charlie Brown.

 

[Derec]

One wonders whether Judge Zimmerman has any contact with these women who decide not to press charges. Either directly or through representatives.

Who is "judge Zimmerman"?

 

[maxparrish]

92 pages, over 900 posts on George Zimmerman?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

92 pages, over 900 posts on George Zimmerman?

Agreed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

One wonders whether Judge Zimmerman has any contact with these women who decide not to press charges. Either directly or through representatives.

Who is "judge Zimmerman"?

The guy that decides who ends what relationship and when, who gets to use the iPad, whether a person is up to no good.

 

[coloradoatheist]

92 pages, over 900 posts on George Zimmerman?

Did Zimmerman shoot the horse too?

 

[maxparrish]

92 pages, over 900 posts on George Zimmerman?

Did Zimmerman shoot the horse too?

And after three weeks of rage, flame, smoke, and fury the thread flat tires with the charges being dropped. We shall never know if GZ threw a bottle of wine and smashed a cell phone...oh the pain of not knowing

 

[EPresence2]

I doubt that - which is why I wrote this. But you could be right. What the hell, here you go: Jimmy said that Martin could have been a jerk/bully. If Martin was a jerk/bully and there is reasonable doubt that Z attempted to detain him... it stands to reason that Martin may have punched Z for having the audacity to confront him. I've said this already in this thread, but without the explicit statement that M could have been a jerk/bully; only that we don't know much about him.

How about addressing this.

You were writing that in response to a comment that said, "even if he was a jerk or a bully, why does that make death an appropriate response?"

And I don't think you've said anything that changes the obvious answer away from, "it doesn't. Even if he were a jerk or a bully, death is not the appropriate response to that."

I mean, if you look at Zimmerman's own record(s) of violence, does this mean it was appropriate for someone to have shot and killed him, what, SIX different times now?

1. When he punched the undercover cop, should the cop have shot him?
2. When he smashed his wife's tablet and threatened her, should she have been okay shooting him to death for that?
3. When he threw that drunk woman down on the floor - appropriate for her to get up and kill him?
4. When he smashed his girlfriend's glass table, should she have just shot him instead of leaving?
5. When he shouted at that motorist, "I'm going to kill you!" the guy would have been right to pull out a gun and shoot him dead?
6. And when he threw this wine bottle against the wall at his girlfriend, instead of crying and leaving and getting pulled over by the cops, would it have been justifiable, in your mind, for her to just shoot him dead at home, instead?

I don't get your logic.
Yes. Even if Martin had been a jerk or a bully, yes, the shooting/murder was STILL unjustified.
He's a very lucky man that the rest of the world doesn't feel entitled to what he feels entitled to. Yanno? I mean, YOU KNOW!?

(edited to add, although if that first undercover cop had just shot him for being a "dangerous thug," Trayvon Martin would still be alive today.)

And I don't get your logic that equates all those instances of alleged (and convicted) crime both before and after the Martin case with a situation in which Zimmerman was actually in a fight against a person he didn't know with no witnesses as to who started it! You are comparing apples to oranges. And do you believe every allegation you hear about someone? Even if they had pushed an undercover cop who they thought was assaulting a friend? I don't doubt Zimmerman has some serious problems - but I'm also not falling down the slippery slope to hell spawn (=the party line).

 

[laughing dog]

Laughing Dog,

In other words, Rhea, no he won't answer because he knows his premise:

You may also want to reconsider the possibility that Martin was a jerk/bully to maintain your party line.

has zero basis in anything factual. It is simply slandering an innocent teenager who was killed by an aggressive violent killer

Actually Raven, I did later answer her question despite the fact it was already answered earlier in the thread. But I know how easy it is to miss posts. I am also not claiming Martin was a jerk/bully. Does the possibility have zero basis in anything factual? Jimmy Higgins (paragon of freethought) thinks otherwise.

How about addressing this. I agree, the bias and bigotry is depressing.

What would be the point in addressing something that is irrelevant?