George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[Nexus]

Here we have theories about Zimmerman, one which requires an assumption that he is a compulsive liar, and one that does not. And none of your examples show that he is a compulsive liar that would make up incredibly elaborate scenarios even when it doesn't benefit him in any way - only that he makes stupid and rather simple lies to cover his own ass.

Lying liars make up all sorts of lies. Some are mostly believable to mostly unbelievable. Most surprisingly they tell lies that that serve no purpose other than expose themselves as liars.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Here we have theories about Zimmerman, one which requires an assumption that he is a compulsive liar, and one that does not. And none of your examples show that he is a compulsive liar that would make up incredibly elaborate scenarios even when it doesn't benefit him in any way - only that he makes stupid and rather simple lies to cover his own ass.

Lying liars make up all sorts of lies. Some are mostly believable to mostly unbelievable. Most surprisingly they tell lies that that serve no purpose other than expose themselves as liars.

Except most of them don't face the death penalty or life behind bars if they caught lying. So that person has to be very careful. And with big lies it becomes very hard to keep coming up with ways to lie about it and the lies eventually get caught.

 

[Nexus]

But there is also a huge difference in the scenario here too where with your friend he has no reprocussions if he is found out to be a liar, where Zimmerman has to either be very close to the truth. There are a lot of things that break if there is an unknown witness.

This is where the stupid impulsive aspect comes in. An impulsive liar doesn't consider all the consequences of their deception being discovered. And Zimmerman with his violent history has proven himself to be impulsive. His history of lies ie art fraud etc has shown him to be a liar. Ergo his is an impulsive liar.

I don't need any testimony from Zimmerman to know he wrongly killed Martin. When you have a known liar the best thing is to reconstruct the scenario without their input. All the other evidence suggests an angry Zimmerman pursued an innocent Martin and shot him dead.

 

[bleubird]

I think Z just has a small penis,and is angry about it.

 

[Mumbles]

Lying liars make up all sorts of lies. Some are mostly believable to mostly unbelievable. Most surprisingly they tell lies that that serve no purpose other than expose themselves as liars.

Except most of them don't face the death penalty or life behind bars if they caught lying. So that person has to be very careful. And with big lies it becomes very hard to keep coming up with ways to lie about it and the lies eventually get caught.

And that's the problem - his lies are so whopping because he isn't thinking, he's scared and trying to avoid all responsibility. This is why he has Martin circling his car, why he has the operator tell him to move his car, and then demands an address, why he has Trayvon run away, but then inexplicably reappear pesting threats and "sucker punching" him, how Martin is both holding weapons and grabbing his head with both hands. Every contradiction he makes is an obvious attempt to avoid responsibility for anything that took place. And that's why I'm calling them "lies". Far from being far fetched, they're by far the most likely option presented so far - in fact, nobody has even bothered to provide a plausible counter argument, either in this case or in any other of his buffoonish antics.

 

[Bronzeage]

I think Z just has a small penis,and is angry about it.

That sums it up nicely.

 

[RavenSky]

naw, naw, naw

This right here,

This what going on here

Isn't about what happened to Trayvon years ago, this isn't about Florida Law, this is about paranoid fears of black planet. Every argument your side has made has been shot down in flames time and time again. You refuse to speak of or see Trayvon as a human being much less a citizen with a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

At this point, this is just a feeble and pathetic attempt to somehow be right in a sea of wrong, to make it okay to kill black people wholesale and have it be alright.

It ain't.

A black person come at you with a gun, you have right to defend yourself

A black person walks from the store, you don't have a right to put into motion and then carry out his murder.

Just like for white people. Shocking I know, to think a black kid should have the same right to do a snack run as a white kid, but it's the truth.

Deal with it.

Zimmerman is a bad man who does bad things and has been doing bad thing for some time. Trayvon was a kid with a soft drink and candy. Zimmerman is alive. Trayvon is dead, murdered and his murderer walks free. not a new thing in the history of America.

You want Zimmerman to be not the author of madness? Build a time machine, go back in time, and keep his ratchet ass IN THE GODDAMN TRUCK. other than that, this is ALL ON HIM.

Why does it have to be about sides and who is completely wrong or right Athena? Your assertions in that regard are just that; Some of my questions were never answered by "your side." Though sometimes it takes assuming "a side" to really try understanding their perspective, and that's okay. But I've noticed how little "your side" considers plausible alternatives that DON'T involve completely exonerating a dead person you hardly know. You can honor them without overlooking any facts or plausible alternatives. I've brought up such oversights on numerous occasions - case in point: the shooting of Jerame Reid in New Jersey. The blatant misinformation that was being spread by the OP tainted the entire discussion thereafter. We owe it to both the living and the dead to be fair.

Zimmerman killed Trayvon in Florida. What happened in NJ has nothing to do with anything.

There was exactly zero evidence that Trayvon Martin did anything wrong on the night he was killed, and unless you can offer actual factual evidence otherwise, nothing you have to say on the subject will change the fact that Zimmerman killed an innocent teenager and got away with it.

 

[RavenSky]

People have asked you to clarify what you meant by



Will you clarify?

I'm not going to repeat things I've said on this thread or connect the dots for you. E2 was done with this thread a few pages back, and that's mostly true (exception being what I wrote to Athena et al. that connected with another thread). What I've said is documented in earlier pages, interspersed with wonderful unbiased commentary from the peanut gallery.

In other words, Rhea, no he won't answer because he knows his premise:

You may also want to reconsider the possibility that Martin was a jerk/bully to maintain your party line.

has zero basis in anything factual. It is simply slandering an innocent teenager who was killed by an aggressive violent killer

 

[RavenSky]

Maybe, but that would mean Zimmerman did not reach the T until end of his 311 call. So why couldn't he tell the address where he was at? All he had to do was look at the number on the closest building. And why would he say that he went all the way to RVC...

You will have to ask Zimmerman those questions. He's the one who stood there like a complete idiot during his video-taped "reenactment" telling the police he had to go to RVC because he couldn't see any addresses on Twin Tree even those there was a house number clear as day in the same frame.

 

[Mumbles]

Again, Zimmerman specifically stated that Martin had left, walked back, walked in a circle around his car, and then ran away, and that he told this to dispatch (he did not). This would be an extraordinarily stupid lie to state - and yet, he did.

This could easily be explained as misremembering details of what he told to the dispatch or choosing his words poorly. For example, the word "circle" is not necessarily full 360 degrees around the car.

He specifically states "He walked around my car in a circle" and holds up a finger and moves it in a circle.

And he told the dispatch that Martin was checking him out, whether it was a circle or not.

This was paranoia on his part. Martin clearly walks by him because Zimmerman is directly on his path home, not to "check him out".

You do realize Zimmerman's observed Martin before he called 311, right? So of course, the time Zimmerman was on the call is shorter.

So we're instead stating that he was stalking him *before*calling dispatch? Then he's still lying.

Or that he didn't spot Zimmerman where he did at all? Still lying.

That's what you're missing - there's no plausible scenario where he isn't making a bunch of self-serving false statements in order to reduce his guilt. And there is no reason to lie about where he first saw Martin - in fact although he sees Martin doing nothing wrong, nobody would much care if he saw someone he didn't recognize in front of an empty house, called non-emergency, and went about his business.

Maybe not four minutes, but it's not unreasonable that it took more than a minute to spot Martin, slow down, drive past him, park to the clubhouse and make the call. Also, I listened to the 311 call again, and presumably that's where you got the 2 minutes because it take approximately that long from the beginning of the call to "he's running". But where do you get the six minutes from?

Google Maps. Given his description, that would be how long Martin would have had to walk to make all of the moves that Zimmerman claims before running.

Meanwhile, if Zimmerman is telling the truth about stopping where he did, nd about Martin "coming to check him out" We discover, remarkably, that martin would be approaching the clubhouse at around that time.

if he was lying about everything, why can't you point out a single lie that would be anywhere near the scope of the lie that you are proposing?

The video I linked shows exactly that.

You have not convinced me that Zimmerman is a criminal mastermind that would be required by your scenario.

I never said anything about a criminal mastermind. I think the man is a violent idiot, and the DA and former police chief idiots to publicly state "Everything is adding up to what he says", when it's obvious that the exact opposite was the case.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I did watch the video. And the one major screw up that he needed to explain better but the cops doesn't mention is where he actually started the call from because I would put it at the side of the street and not the clubhouse. Though he may have screwed up things and first parked at the clubhouse to watch Martin and then moved on. However I think it's minor and should have been able to clear it up.

But it's interesting. We have three tellings of part of the story. The 311 call, the written statement, and then the walk-through video. All very close, but with a few changes in order which is normal of memory. In the written statement he says he went looking for the direction and the street sign. In the video I did not see the street sign on the corner, but in the video he used address which is normally both, so he used a slightly different word. And he also used circled in the written statement so he had a sharp memory to use that that in both cases.

I can see why the cops believed him because he would have to be a very good liar. How many people are able to easily throw lies around the truths along with remember what the dispatcher said and asked for?

 

[RavenSky]

He did NOT remember what the dispatcher said and asked for. I don't know what video you watched, but it wasn't the one link to in this thread, because the one linked to in this thread makes it crystal clear that Zimmerman did NOT accurately remember what the dispatcher said, instead making up entire exchanges to justify/cover up his continued pursuit of Trayvon.

 

[Playball40]

He did NOT remember what the dispatcher said and asked for. I don't know what video you watched, but it wasn't the one link to in this thread, because the one linked to in this thread makes it crystal clear that Zimmerman did NOT accurately remember what the dispatcher said, instead making up entire exchanges to justify/cover up his continued pursuit of Trayvon.

Exactly. The cop in the re-enactment hadn't yet heard the 911 recordings so he had nothing on which to base the discrepancies. HOWEVER, the prosecution DID, and chose to ignore it. But hey, they didn't "really" throw that case.

 

[EPresence2]

Why does it have to be about sides and who is completely wrong or right Athena? Your assertions in that regard are just that; Some of my questions were never answered by "your side." Though sometimes it takes assuming "a side" to really try understanding their perspective, and that's okay. But I've noticed how little "your side" considers plausible alternatives that DON'T involve completely exonerating a dead person you hardly know. You can honor them without overlooking any facts or plausible alternatives. I've brought up such oversights on numerous occasions - case in point: the shooting of Jerame Reid in New Jersey. The blatant misinformation that was being spread by the OP tainted the entire discussion thereafter. We owe it to both the living and the dead to be fair.

Zimmerman killed Trayvon in Florida. What happened in NJ has nothing to do with anything.

There was exactly zero evidence that Trayvon Martin did anything wrong on the night he was killed, and unless you can offer actual factual evidence otherwise, nothing you have to say on the subject will change the fact that Zimmerman killed an innocent teenager and got away with it.

Yeah, we all know that Zimmerman killed Trayvon in Florida. And nothing (even factual evidence that TM may have initiated the physical altercation) can change the fact the GZ killed a teenager and was not indicted for murder. The misinformation link between the many questionable cases of "innocent victims" ending up dead will have to be explained in another thread.

In the mean time - the lessons from this case apply to both sides and it would be a disservice to both to claim otherwise. They apply mostly to would-be Zimmerman's who consider following a suspect with the intent to confront or detain. The take home for someone who might be profiled in a similar situation: that creepy cracker following you in a gated neighborhood might have a gun - so don't take it to the next level and start anything physical; just get to your location as fast as possible and call the police. Trayvon was no Casper Milktoast - he was involved in fights both sanctioned and unsanctioned. He very well could have punched a dude having the audacity to follow him home ("nigga still following me... why you following me... What are you doing here?... Get off me! Get off me!" ). As a teenager who was involved in fights myself (mostly breaking them up) I might have done the same thing.

 

[EPresence2]

I'm not going to repeat things I've said on this thread or connect the dots for you. E2 was done with this thread a few pages back, and that's mostly true (exception being what I wrote to Athena et al. that connected with another thread). What I've said is documented in earlier pages, interspersed with wonderful unbiased commentary from the peanut gallery.

In other words, Rhea, no he won't answer because he knows his premise:

You may also want to reconsider the possibility that Martin was a jerk/bully to maintain your party line.

has zero basis in anything factual. It is simply slandering an innocent teenager who was killed by an aggressive violent killer

Actually Raven, I did later answer her question despite the fact it was already answered earlier in the thread. But I know how easy it is to miss posts. I am also not claiming Martin was a jerk/bully. Does the possibility have zero basis in anything factual? Jimmy Higgins (paragon of freethought) thinks otherwise.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The take home for someone who might be profiled in a similar situation: that creepy cracker following you in a gated neighborhood might have a gun - so don't take it to the next level and start anything physical; just get to your location as fast as possible and call the police.

We don't know if Trayvon "took it to the next level" even if it was his legal right to do so.

Trayvon was no Casper Milktoast - he was involved in fights both sanctioned and unsanctioned.

First off: What was the sanctioning body for the fight? Sanctioning usually mean that the game/bout/fight has an independent governing committee, follows proper rules and procedures enforced by trained officials. Participants must meet minimum skills and the facility safety personnel on hand.

Secondly, Martin's experience would not elevate him up from Milktoast. He was a beginner. He did not have the time, experience and training to develop fighting skills (especially if he was spending time committing the crimes). As a official in sport, I see novices step onto the track with little or no training all the time. Participation in a sport does not denote skill. Muscle memories must be learned. In the original thread there were repeated calls to discover the gym, training body, dojo or military organization Martin belonged to. No response or organization was ever names. I'm not sure where he earned his reputation as a formidable fighter and there is no evidence that he was anything more than a normal teen who got a couple of short lessons.

Zimmerman did belong to a gym and was training in Mixed Martial Arts.

So based upon actual evidence, if i were a odds maker I would give Zimmerman the edge. Apparently I would have lost some money, but I think it is safe to assume that they were both at a beginner-novice levels of fighting.

This whole idea of Trayvon Martin as a trained fighter is ludicrous. There is a racial stereotype that Black men all know how to box and are excel at it. I ask that people don't play into it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScaryBlackMan

 

[EPresence2]

Squirrel,

I meant "sanctioned" in a more general sense - as in it was a contest with some form of officiating. I'm not claiming he was a trained fighter any more than Zimmerman was a buff mixed martial artist. It's more about what the individuals thought they were. Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability. Some folks are naturals and some folks aren't. I'm not claiming either - are you? How do you know Martin's experience would not elevate him up from a milktoast who can't fight at all? The conjecturing from "your side" is astounding. It definitely seems like a united front when half a dozen people (or more) jump on your posts (past experience).

Update: I would define Casper Milktoast as someone who thinks nothing of their fighting ability; Someone who can't fight and wouldn't fight. Our definitions may not be the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Squirrel,

I meant "sanctioned" in a more general sense - as in it was a contest with some form of officiating. I'm not claiming he was a trained fighter any more than Zimmerman was a buff mixed martial artist. It's more about what the individuals thought they were. Why bring up all this stuff about stereotypes and black men? I played b-ball a lot growing up and got the stereotype of a white man who can't jump - but I could. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in terms of TM's fighting ability. Some folks are naturals and some folks aren't. I'm not claiming either - are you? How do you know Martin's experience would not elevate him up from a milktoast? The conjecturing from "your side" is astounding.

Starting to move into Glenn Beck territory here.

Hey? Who's bringing up whether Martin was a trained martial arts fighter? Not me. I'm just saying he could be a trained martial arts fighter... or not.

 

[coloradoatheist]

He did NOT remember what the dispatcher said and asked for. I don't know what video you watched, but it wasn't the one link to in this thread, because the one linked to in this thread makes it crystal clear that Zimmerman did NOT accurately remember what the dispatcher said, instead making up entire exchanges to justify/cover up his continued pursuit of Trayvon.

There was one major discrepancy as I said that needed to be looked at, but even then he has partially correct with it. The rest weren't discrepancies, but things people disagreed with after spending a lot more time than the actual call and process thinking about it.

 

[EPresence2]

The take home for someone who might be profiled in a similar situation: that creepy cracker following you in a gated neighborhood might have a gun - so don't take it to the next level and start anything physical; just get to your location as fast as possible and call the police.

We don't know if Trayvon "took it to the next level" even if it was his legal right to do so.

I'm not saying we know that any more than we know that Zimmerman actually attempted to detain Martin or what Martin was thinking (afraid or pissed off). You are. And I've said this to you already in this thread. Thus begins another round of connect the dots to paint Zimmerman as the height of stupidity, dishonesty, and aggression...