Oh, since it's based in real observations you can provide examples of habit #6.
Please do.
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7 Habits of Highly Affected Racialists
- Thread starter Davka
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Oh, since it's based in real observations you can provide examples of habit #6.
Please do.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Why would he be rummaging through your porn stash?
And you, sir, have demonstrated your ability to project - projecting your abilities (and lack thereof), projecting your capacity to engage in conversation, projecting your ability to support your points, projecting your level of civility, and projecting your racial attitudes.
It's all you've got.
Davka
Senior Member
Just as soon as you go piss up a rope.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Forget it, dismal. Davka doesn't know how to support a point.
Davka
Senior Member
Nope, not a bit. I'm just a dumb honkey.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
I suppose your use of that word to describe yourself is one of your points of evidence that those who disagree with you use that sort of language.
Davka
Senior Member
Jason, I apologize. I must have conflated your posts with those of some of our more racialist libertarians. I got bored, and decided to scroll through your past posts, and it turns out I was wrong - you were not the one posting racist apologetics. I accused you wrongly, and I'm sorry.
Jason Harvestdancer may be a libertarian, but he is not a racialist, a bigot, or any other flavor of racially-motivated asshole. I was wrong. My ass is showing.
I really, seriously am sorry. You didn't deserve that. And if you decide that you still don't like me or trust me, I don't blame you. I was a jerk.
oops.
Jason Harvestdancer may be a libertarian, but he is not a racialist, a bigot, or any other flavor of racially-motivated asshole. I was wrong. My ass is showing.
I really, seriously am sorry. You didn't deserve that. And if you decide that you still don't like me or trust me, I don't blame you. I was a jerk.
oops.
I didn't see this earlier, I just saw it when looking for examples to answer other posts. I feel badly at the feeling you get from this. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, because the anger you feel is not something I care to create. And I feel like something wrong is happening when it becomes evident.
On the topic of the racialist context, Does this feel the same as the institutional racism/oppression that you see happening to either hispanics or people who are black in America such as housing, job and sentencing differences?
When I think about stories of people with black ancestry who "pass" or conversely who are adopted into white families I see the experience they get being deeply rooted in how society views them. If you look black, you get the black experience, most often. The police stops, the job discrimination, etc. If you look white, you don't.
(edited: based on conversations with people who look black raised in white looking families and people who look white raised in black looking families)
It's a good thing you were able to produce so many examples of other people doing it so you don't have to take back all those insults you flung at people.
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maxparrish
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In other words, the more strident your unsupported claims are, the more you expect others to be convinced that they are supported?
Nope. There have been lots of supporting examples.
So, I've got a question.
Just hypothetically,
if there were "racialists," what kind of behaviors would they exhibit, do you think?
Would they do any thing like any of these?
1. Rejecting and Mocking Accepted Sociological Terminology.
2. Accuse Minorities of Racism.
3. Racism Denial.
4. Appeal to (pseudo)Science.
5. Hyperfocus on Minutiae.
6. The “Not All X” Defense.
7. Redefining Racism.
And if not, how do you think a "racialist" or racist would behave when asked about racist situations? Would they instantly see and agree with the racism present in the situation? Or would a racialist behave differently from non racialist? Can we tell anything from the billboards that they put up?
I guess the important antecedent question is, do racists or racialists actually exist?
Or are those billboard putter-uppers just normal tolerant people?
Just hypothetically,
if there were "racialists," what kind of behaviors would they exhibit, do you think?
Would they do any thing like any of these?
1. Rejecting and Mocking Accepted Sociological Terminology.
2. Accuse Minorities of Racism.
3. Racism Denial.
4. Appeal to (pseudo)Science.
5. Hyperfocus on Minutiae.
6. The “Not All X” Defense.
7. Redefining Racism.
And if not, how do you think a "racialist" or racist would behave when asked about racist situations? Would they instantly see and agree with the racism present in the situation? Or would a racialist behave differently from non racialist? Can we tell anything from the billboards that they put up?
I guess the important antecedent question is, do racists or racialists actually exist?
Or are those billboard putter-uppers just normal tolerant people?
My first question, would fall straight into number 2, and you'd call me a racialist. Why should we assume a "racialist" must not be a minority or that minorities can't be "racialists" towards majorities?
My second question would be what is the point of listing the "habits" of racialists in a tone such as in the OP? Is it to accomplish anything useful, or merely to point at people and call them racialists whenever anybody does one of the things on the list, some of which are perfectly rational. Because it sure does look like the latter. Especially as you watch the poster of the OP luagh and point like a school child throughout the remainder of the thread.
Third, I would note that point 7 and point 1 kind of conflict. As do points 2 and 3.
My second question would be what is the point of listing the "habits" of racialists in a tone such as in the OP? Is it to accomplish anything useful, or merely to point at people and call them racialists whenever anybody does one of the things on the list, some of which are perfectly rational. Because it sure does look like the latter. Especially as you watch the poster of the OP luagh and point like a school child throughout the remainder of the thread.
Third, I would note that point 7 and point 1 kind of conflict. As do points 2 and 3.
In fact, if we all want to be completely honest about it, most of these points run in both directions. It doesn't take much to switch it around on the OP.
1. Rejecting and mocking accepted sociological data, or evading it
2. Accuse anybody of racism who disagrees with your views. Call them "racialists"
3. Racism Denial
4. Appeal to (pseudo)Science.
5. Hyperfocus on Minutae. We once had a thread on here about how candies are racist. I shit you not.
6. The "not All X" defense
7. Redefining racism (so that only white people can be racist)
1. Rejecting and mocking accepted sociological data, or evading it
2. Accuse anybody of racism who disagrees with your views. Call them "racialists"
3. Racism Denial
4. Appeal to (pseudo)Science.
5. Hyperfocus on Minutae. We once had a thread on here about how candies are racist. I shit you not.
6. The "not All X" defense
7. Redefining racism (so that only white people can be racist)
Davka
Senior Member
Nope, you don't get a pass, dismal. This thread itself is all the example I need. You lose.
So I was actually curious how you thought an actual racist would respond to a story that shows racism. How do you think they would?
If you think one or more of those doesn't belong on a list of things a racist would say or do in reaction to a discussion aboutn racism, then go ahead and answer the bit about what you think they _would_ do or say.
As for what use is discussing behaviors and their consequences, I often find useful tidbits that can open my own eyes about stuff. Even if I think a thing does not apply to me, sometimes I see, "but that little part does - I had not thought that through before. Hmmm. Note to self."
Actually, Rhea, had you written the OP, I would have taken it a bit more seriously, especially if you wrote it without the childish antics of Davka here, who is even now pointing a finger at dismal and flinging poo at him. Basically if a post like this is written by Davka, laughing dog or Athena, I can't take it seriously, because I know what to expect. This is my experience. I admit that it may be unfair and cause me to miss something I shouldn't. I see that same folly happening to some people reading Derec's posts about men/women.
I do agree that many of the items listed in the OP are exactly what I would expect an actual racist to say or do. I would be careful though to not brand people as racists just because they doand say these things though, because there is often a call for a good reason to do and say such things. The racist will make blanket statements, ask no honest questions, not engage in conversation, and just speak from a faith-like position of how their race is superior and how "those [others]" are all like this or that and have this or that failing. Racism is inherently irrational. If they actually have data to back up such a claim, and rational argument, then really it stops being racism. For example, it isn't racist to say that black people are more vulnerable to particular diseases, and it isn't sexist to say that men are on average physically stronger than women.
arkirk
Veteran Member
The answer to this dilemna...just be sincere. I am a man and have taken the slings and arrows of crazed feminists who regard all men evil. Does that mean they are or that these women are wrong? In their own experience, they think they are right. We need to try to make peace with those who suffer the greatest aggravation from discrimination, and not be so narrow and exactitudinarian and demanding they make absolute sense to us. That is a big part of the peace making process.
We do need to hear their story in their words and not recoil and spit vitriol at the first sign of departure from a description of life as we know it. Making peace is a mutual learning process. Tolerance seems to demand of us sometimes that we take a little time to investigate what is being said and then try to make something useful out of the acquired knowledge for both participants in the conflict. Some ideas will seem so wrong to you they appear only to be worthy of rebuke, but that rebuke simply cuts off exchange and also conflict resolution. The reward for resolving conflicts is great. The price of not resolving them is greater.
A person who feels injured is not going to try to convince you of anything. We need to put that feeling of injury to bed before we can make any true progress. Sometimes we are the offending party and can't understand how badly we are offending. We have to learn how to change that. That is at the root of racism, and sexism, and nationalism, ethnocentrism, etc. etc...all the shit that keeps us snapping at each other when we ought to be trying to live in a world with as many friends as possible. I am not writing this as if I am somehow above bigotry or ignorance. We are all ignorant on something. We are all falsely proud of something. It is in the elimination of these "somethings" that we make progress toward a more peaceful, more prosperous existence.
arkirk
Veteran Member
Max: You are trying to dictate within very narrow confines how others must reason. You should understand that many of us cannot even glimpse the world from where you see it. Davka has experienced the support for what he writes. That is obvious to me. You are responding as if Davka's seven points somehow needed to be rebuked for you to keep your self respect...as if these things all applied to you personally. They probably don't. Just like many of your ideas don't apply to many of us. We are not in the business of keeping accurate ledgers on who hurts who. What is important is how to make things better.
Damn, I knew I was losing when I completely abandoned supporting my arguments with examples and started flinging feces at people instead.
Oh wait, that wasn't me.