Yet another war, this time with Iran

[bilby]

Tat is why modern liberal democracies are revolutionary. The idea of separation of church and state and freedom of beliefs

Modern liberal democracies? You mean like Zimbabwe, Rwanda, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, all of which have no state or officially preferred religion?

Or do you mean more like the UK, Denmark or Norway, all of which have an official state religion to which the head of state is constitutionally obliged to belong?

You surely don't mean the USA, which despite her constitutional separation of church and state, is no longer a liberal democracy:

 

[bilby]

If the goal is to kill all the Iranian hardliners, this is a forever war.

Not necessarily; A genocide of between sixty and ninety million people would probably also work.

Neither seems like a great plan to me, but then, plans (of even the worst kind) seem not to have been a factor thus far.

 

[TSwizzle]

Yes. Within the Muslim community. I should perhaps have added that qualification.

Islam has a radical egalitarian and meritocratic creed, within Islam. They have always struggled with living up tp their own ideals. But it is very much an Islamic creed

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

Anyway.. I can say a lot more. I'll stop there

Thanks goodness because you are talking absolute nonsense.

 

[bilby]

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

You can say the exact same thing about christianity and its followers.

There's nothing special or different about Islam.

 

[barbos]

Who knows. Its bizarre that a regime so hated within and without, while also being a dysfunctional and preposterously corrupt shit show of a nation, with a collapsed economy, manages to cling to power.

It reminds me of USSR towards the end. That's the level of dysfunction

It reminds me of the United States.

It reminds you of the wealthiest country on Earth with the most efficient and effective economy to have ever existed at its very peak of power, and is getting more powerful? Really?

channeling Trump?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yes. Within the Muslim community. I should perhaps have added that qualification.

Islam has a radical egalitarian and meritocratic creed, within Islam. They have always struggled with living up tp their own ideals. But it is very much an Islamic creed

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

What Islam teaches often goes against what Muslims do.

Just because religious people sometimes do horrible things doesn't mean that we would be better off without it.

Islam has historicaly been extremely good at creating large unified stable empires. That’s not nothing

Obviously Muslims are sectarian, petty and jealous. They're human.

I think you underestimate how much western enlightenment values have transformed the world. You’re expressing enlightenment values as if everyone should have gotten the memo. That’s not how it works. Culture evolves slowly. Middle East was untouched by the enlightenment until around the 1960'ies..

I agree that western enlightenment values are superior. But a lot of Muslims are happy with their faith. Very happy. Its hard to reform happy people.

And nastiness doesn't contradict being egalitarian with other Muslims

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The US is assing kick!

“The media here — not all of it, but much of it — wants you to think, just 19 days into this conflict, that we’re somehow spinning toward an endless abyss or a forever war or quagmire,” Hegseth said at a news conference on Thursday morning. “Nothing could be further from the truth.”

Some people are saying we don't have goals or a plan. But we have something better than that. We have a timeline, and we are so far ahead of schedule. This isn't a forever war, because forever wars don't get as far ahead of schedule as is possible. This war is very complete. So complete, all we need is just $200 billion to finish it off quickly.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

You can say the exact same thing about christianity and its followers.

There's nothing special or different about Islam.

Same contributions of science and math, same atrocities, just different branding.

 

[SLD]

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

You can say the exact same thing about christianity and its followers.

There's nothing special or different about Islam.

Same contributions of science and math, same atrocities, just different branding.

Especially when you realize it is only the year 1447.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Anyway.. I can say a lot more. I'll stop there

Thanks goodness because you are talking absolute nonsense.

Let's get the discussion back on topic... how subjects impact TSwizzle.

Iran, Israel, and the US are tit for tat'ing oil and gas infrastructure now, as if the strain caused by Iran being one of the only exporters using the Strait of Hormuz wasn't enough to raise energy prices.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump is totally in control.

US President Donald Trump has issued a typically strongly worded statement in the wake of attacks on a major gas field shared by Iran and Qatar on Wednesday.


Israel hit Iran's South Pars - part of the world's largest natural gas field – and Tehran retaliated by striking an energy complex in Qatar. The attacks led to a spike in energy prices, and fuelled Trump's wrath.

On his Truth Social media platform, Trump threatened Iran again and said he didn't know about Israel's plans for the attack.

In his post, President Trump insists that Qatar was neither involved nor had any advance knowledge of the attacks.

But "unfortunately", he writes, "Iran did not know this" before retaliating "unjustifiably and unfairly".

I think it is almost adorable how Trump or "Trump" is trying to protect Qatar here and be the mediator. Qatar had nothing to do with it, which then begs the question as to whether Qatar knew of other attacks. Regardless, the other part that makes this cute is Trump or "Trump" may not understand that when you hurt Iran, Iran is trying to hurt the faction, not merely try to put forth a sense of justice, to right the wrong of Israel attacking an energy field of Iran. Iran attacked Qatar because it hurts the people attacking or supporting the nations attacking them.

And finally, we get to the part where we need to ask Congress whether they need to talk to Trump and explain that "escalation isn't a one-way street".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man, so glad Harris isn't President or Biden.

US mulling lifting IRANIAN oil sanctions. I suppose someone could have come up with that in a comedy.

The price of Brent crude, the global oil benchmark, briefly climbed past $117 per barrel before settling around $111 Thursday, as Gulf states reported more attacks on critical infrastructure. The price of European natural gas futures also rose.

As the latest attacks rattled markets, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said the administration may lift restrictions on Iranian oil that has already been loaded onto vessels, a move that could help the regime generate funds for its war effort.

“In the coming days, we may unsanction the Iranian oil that’s on the water,” Bessent said on the Fox Business Network. “It’s about 140 million barrels.”

So, allow Iran to sell oil more easily, to help fund their attacks on our alleged allies that are coming about from the US and Israeli strikes on Iran. I'm not done... this is being suggested in order to help ease the concerns of rising oil prices which are happening because of an escalating tit for tat between the US/Israel and Iran.

If I was in the commodities trade, I'd be hiking the price because apparently the adults and professionals are nowhere to be found in the Trump Administration and they are all blithering fools and this will all end in ruin. That or start digging a bunker.

The easiest way to settle oil prices is to stop the attacks! Call it a "win" and pretend this stupid thing never started and hope Iran doesn't keep a noose on the Strait of Hormuz.

Otherwise, allowing Iran to sell oil, for a limited time only... act fast, to ease the markets has got to be one of the more frightening ideas I've heard come from DC.

 

[Playball40]

Yes. Within the Muslim community. I should perhaps have added that qualification.

Islam has a radical egalitarian and meritocratic creed, within Islam. They have always struggled with living up tp their own ideals. But it is very much an Islamic creed

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

Anyway.. I can say a lot more. I'll stop there

Thanks goodness because you are talking absolute nonsense.

Oh absolute bullshit. I know MANY Muslims and NONE are as you describe. Now Christians OTOH......

 

[TSwizzle]

Yes. Within the Muslim community. I should perhaps have added that qualification.

Islam has a radical egalitarian and meritocratic creed, within Islam. They have always struggled with living up tp their own ideals. But it is very much an Islamic creed

Nah, islam and its followers are a nasty bunch. They can't stand their own sects let alone the Jews, Christians, Pagans and whatever else, gays. women and what not.

Anyway.. I can say a lot more. I'll stop there

Thanks goodness because you are talking absolute nonsense.

Oh absolute bullshit. I know MANY Muslims and NONE are as you describe. {snip}

#notallmuslims but an awful lot of them.

Sharia police have caned a couple 140 times each in Indonesia’s Aceh province for having sex outside marriage and drinking alcohol, likely one of the severest such punishments since the deeply conservative region adopted Islamic law. Sexual relations between an unmarried couple are strictly outlawed in Aceh, the only place in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation, to impose sharia law. The couple, a man and a woman, were struck on their backs with a rattan stick in a public park while dozens of people watched, according to an AFP reporter at the scene. The woman fainted after enduring her punishment and was escorted to an ambulance. In total, the pair received 140 lashes: 100 for sex outside marriage and 40 for consuming alcohol, the head of Banda Aceh’s Sharia police, Muhammad Rizal, told AFP.

Teh Gruaniad

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump no longer thinks he's a king. He now thinks he's an Emperor. That means his goal is to punish Iran into subservience.

Consider this outcome similar to Venezuela. Iranian leadership will need to agree to terms like no nukes, no funding terrorism, send 10% of oil money to the Trumpenyahu Organization, ...

Vassal state accomplished. Then, the bombs stop for now.

So what the news of discussing lifting sanctions means in this greater context is that a much larger deal is being considered.

 

[ZiprHead]

So according to what I heard reported this morning, the British were participating in the negotiations with Iran and they say Iran made a credible offer to give up all of it fissionable material. Hours later Trump started the bombings.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Derec]

I ain't one to entertain anti-Semitic conspiracy theories... so I won't. What I have found interesting, however, is the US is targeting just military in Iran. The assassinations are Israeli attacks.

The assassinations are the only way some real change could be effected here.

Sure, Trump may have negotiated some sort of cessation of hostilities with e.g. Larijani. But nothing would have changed. The regime would still be in charge. The IRGC would still corruptly enrich itself at the expense of the Iranian people and use those profits to fund vassals and terrorist groups. They would continue to develop nuclear weapons.

In the short term, US needs to eliminate Iranian missile and drone capabilities. Using 5000 lbs bunker busters on missile sites is a good approach. Then, the Strait of Hormuz must be secured. And then, the Iranians will have nothing.

 

[Derec]

That Israel has long had an American propaganda campaign and a well funded PAC is not a secret.

As do Muslims with CAIR and the like.

My guess is Netanyahu has played Trump like a fiddle. He tried to coax Obama into attacking Iran.

A war with the Tehran regime was always inevitable. Would that Obama had heeded the coaxing then, it would have been an easier war. Iran greatly developed its missile and drone capabilities since the days of Obama. Instead, he negotiated a rotten deal that greatly favored the Ayatollahs, giving them sanction relief and pallets of cash for very little in terms of concessions.

It is all well beyond an issue of antisemitism. Israel has played the victim to US conservatives while colonizing the West Back pushing Palestinians off their land. Jews from around the world have gone to Israel to get 'free' land.

Judea and Samaria is not Arab land. If it was, they would have a native land for it, instead of using synthetic neologisms like "West Bank" or Greco-Roman colonial names like "Palestine" that cannot even be pronounced using Arabic phonemes. Same goes for "their" cities like "Nablus" which is a corruption of Greek "Neapolis" (New Town). Again, they can't say 'p'.

American politicians him Bibi.

It helps that he speaks excellent English owing to his time studying at MIT.

 

[Derec]

And Iran is shipping oil just fine through the Strait of Hormuz. Waiting for Hegseth to blow one of those ships up in the channel and look deer in the headlights when asked how they'll reopen the straight with the damaged ship there blocking the channel.

No need to blow it inside the Strait. They can be blown up outside that channel. But US should be firm - either all commercial ships can traverse the Strait of Hormuz freely, or none can. And for every missile sent at any Gulf energy infrastructure, hellfire gets rained on Iranian energy infrastructure.