WOW... Michael Moore is all in for Trump

[skepticalbip]

This is a real surprise to me. I wonder if it will resonate with the old Bernie supporters (who are half of the Democrat voters).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Snopes says no.

 

[skepticalbip]

Snopes says no.

But then what Snopes says about something that has not yet happened is pretty much irrelevant since it would be just their opinion, not a fact that can be checked until afterwards.

 

[bilby]

Moore understands why people might vote for Trump.

Sadly, it seems that in partisan politics, many people can't grasp that it is possible to understand without agreeing.

The very idea that someone who disagrees with a person might nevertheless understand why they feel as they do apparently comes as a surprise to many. That saddens me.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, he gets why people are voting for Trump and agrees that Trump's supporters are getting shafted by the system and ignored by the media and the political elites. That's very different from supporting Trump, however, since he's of the opinion that a President Clinton would be better for almost every one of their complaints over a President Trump.

 

[funinspace]

Yeah, how dare Snopes actually link to a real article where a writer actually talks to Moore.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...o-trump-voters-youre-legal-terrorists-w446067

You were adamant in your support for Bernie Sanders in the primaries. What's your message for former Sander supporters who are now deciding between Clinton and a third party candidate?
Come on. Come on. Let's... [long pause] We're not being asked to vote for Margaret Thatcher or Sandra Day O'Connor or Clarence Thomas. We're being asked to vote for Hillary Clinton and that's a good thing. Really. She's not any of those people. Do we have our problems? Yes. Do we have our disagreements with her? Yes. She is not exciting the base to get out and vote for her. So we, the Bernie revolution, have to help save her from herself. We know how to do this.

As opposed to considering the output of trolling alt-right figure Milo Yiannopoulos....

 

[Angry Floof]

As a Bernie supporter, it doesn't resonate at all with me. I understand the wanting to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but Bernie wanted to do that by taking care of the basic needs of every person in the US and by removing money from politics, and you know the rest.

Trump supporters do not seem to be aware of what money in politics means. If you don't mind your great fuck you messiah doing everything he can to take advantage of money in politics, i.e., effectively stealing from taxpayers, also stealing from donors to his non-profit to pay his own legal bills, stiffing contractors, and bragging about all of it, then why would you mind it from other politicians? Greed and corruption don't actually bother a Trump supporter.

Bernie's ideas in this regard are clearly in opposition.

Anyone paying attention this election year should not be at all confused about what drives Bernie supporters vs. what drives Trump supporters. "Angry" doesn't mean "violent." Any violence, threats, slurs, and divisive behaviors have come overwhelmingly from Trump supporters.

If they had as much power to punish others as they are slobbering for, Trump supporters would not spare a socialist (even a democratic one, and even if they knew the difference). Bernie supporters tend to like the "we are all in this together" ideology. We all want to smash stuff, but those Trump people seem to favor literal smashing over the metaphorical kind. They seem stuck on "us vs. them" and they don't care who falls into "them" as long as Muslims and black people are there, too.

I don't think Michael was very convincing about what drives Trump supporters, anyway. He spends a lot of time among people with strongly opposing views to his, and he is as susceptible to negativity bias as anyone. And I think he's wrong. He makes it sound like the subset of citizens who have pooled together under a giant wind sock of fear mongering and prejudice are there in noble defiance and not, in fact, impressionable people being dangerously manipulated after having spent a couple of decades being groomed like Manchurian candidates by right wing media.

I do not think a large number of Bernie supporters would jump on this bandwagon. Just because delusional people think electing Trump equates to a justly deserved fuck you to all they believe makes Murica not great doesn't mean anyone with a middle finger up is as ignorant as that. And it's not even that I think Bernie supporters are rationally deciding this. They may be people who do make rational decisions, but as a group, they don't tend to carry that deep mistrust and negativity toward out-groups like right wing authoritarians do. That basic regard for Others is a strong driving factor in what kind of ideology you develop and what beliefs and stories will grab and validate those feelings.

 

[ZiprHead]

See Will Wiley's thread on Moore. I posted Moore's interview on The View from just a few days ago program where he plainly states he's for Clinton.

 

[Elixir]

See Will Wiley's thread on Moore. I posted Moore's interview on The View program where he plainly states he's for Clinton.

Hey - the alt-right clowns need to cherish every bit of support they can get, even if they have to invent it.

 

[Angry Floof]

I'm slow. I didn't realize it was a claim about who Moore is voting for. It seemed obvious to me that he was describing his understanding of Trump supporters and not saying "vote for Trump!" I thought skepticalbip's question came out of thinking that Moore's message was more persuasive than a typical Trump supporter's due to Moore being liberal and to his unabashed opposition of Trump thus far, and might convince a Bernie supporter.

 

[skepticalbip]

I'm slow. I didn't realize it was a claim about who Moore is voting for. It seemed obvious to me that he was describing his understanding of Trump supporters and not saying "vote for Trump!" I thought skepticalbip's question came out of thinking that Moore's message was more persuasive than a typical Trump supporter's due to Moore being liberal and to his unabashed opposition of Trump thus far, and might convince a Bernie supporter.

No. You got it right the first time. This and other clips with the same content are all over the internet. I wasn't wondering how Moore would vote - I was wondering if these clips that are all over the internet would resonate with any old Bernie supporters.

 

[Angry Floof]

I'm slow. I didn't realize it was a claim about who Moore is voting for. It seemed obvious to me that he was describing his understanding of Trump supporters and not saying "vote for Trump!" I thought skepticalbip's question came out of thinking that Moore's message was more persuasive than a typical Trump supporter's due to Moore being liberal and to his unabashed opposition of Trump thus far, and might convince a Bernie supporter.

No. You got it right the first time. This and other clips with the same content are all over the internet. I wasn't wondering how Moore would vote - I was wondering if these clips that are all over the internet would resonate with any old Bernie supporters.

Ah, OK. So my whole post was not in vain.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Hmmmm

How can I put this?

I understand why some people use heroin.

I however do not support heroin use.

 

[Angry Floof]

Hmmmm

How can I put this?

I understand why some people use heroin.

I however do not support heroin use.

This is my point as well. Maybe Trump supporters imagine they are fighting tyranny and saving Murica, and I think it's useful to acknowledge that belief, but there is no good reason to play along with it and pretend it's true just because we love the idiots believing it.

 

[funinspace]

I'm slow. I didn't realize it was a claim about who Moore is voting for. It seemed obvious to me that he was describing his understanding of Trump supporters and not saying "vote for Trump!" I thought skepticalbip's question came out of thinking that Moore's message was more persuasive than a typical Trump supporter's due to Moore being liberal and to his unabashed opposition of Trump thus far, and might convince a Bernie supporter.

No. You got it right the first time. This and other clips with the same content are all over the internet. I wasn't wondering how Moore would vote - I was wondering if these clips that are all over the internet would resonate with any old Bernie supporters.

I’d say he got it half right, as you also strongly suggested in your thread title that Moore is in favor of Trump over Clinton (aka WOW... Michael Moore is all in for Trump). So was that just and only an inflammatory title to get us posters to read the thread? Or what?

Now back to how this is ‘resonating’ in Bernie World: Can you show that there is significant noise within Bernie World over this edited/distorted video (that in original form came from Moore)? As the vid Snopes cites is clearly from an alt-right propagandist Milo Yiannopoulos. The vid you posted, is from some pseudonym called MrFortheloveoftruth (https://www.youtube.com/user/MrFortheloveoftruth/videos). I don’t think this propagandist is anywhere near Bernie World with such lovely other titles like:

How Trump will defeat the desperate liberal media bias and Democrats
Do Americans need to #BoycottNFL in solidarity against the national anthem protest?
Michelle Obama drunk supports Trump, Paula Jones and Roseanne Barr
Hillary Clinton - gives birth to the birther's in 2007 as per Morning Joe Scarborough
Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson's words of wisdom for voters who are still undecided
The Three Sphincateers, Katie Couric, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders
President Obama #jihadenabler comments on radical Islam after Orlando shooting
How a true leader would define our current enemy - Allen West
#BernieSanders hallucinates a bird in Seattle #FEELTHEBERN
#BlackLivesMatter #ShariaLaw America in crosshairs of Muslim caliphate

Do any of those titles ring familiar within the alt-right world? I notice that it looks like 99% alt-right, and next to nothing of Bernie World…just sayin this as a moderate libertarian who has no love for Clinton, and have yet to ever vote for one. I just find Trump to act like a racist and sexist maniac, and horribly unqualified for the job. There are even points that Bernie makes that I agree with. Trump on the other hand, like a broken clock, does say something that has a point; but it almost seems accidental when it happens.

 

[ZiprHead]

Is this an example of a clip of Moore being O'keefed?

 

[skepticalbip]

No. You got it right the first time. This and other clips with the same content are all over the internet. I wasn't wondering how Moore would vote - I was wondering if these clips that are all over the internet would resonate with any old Bernie supporters.

I’d say he got it half right, as you also strongly suggested in your thread title that Moore is in favor of Trump over Clinton (aka WOW... Michael Moore is all in for Trump). So was that just and only an inflammatory title to get us posters to read the thread? Or what?

Just damned dude!

The clips are obviously posted by the right wing. All political ads both right and left are only half truths if they even contain that much truth. Anyone with any awareness at all knows that Moore would never vote for Trump. The title was a reflection of the impression of what the clip was trying to give. Trump faithful will not question that it was all true - the Clinton faithful will automatically scoff - the old Bernie supporters, I don't know. Most will vote for Clinton, some for Johnson, and some for Stein but many are still pissed and I don't know how they will see the clip so I was wondering. And since we do have several old Bernie supporters on this forum, I figured it would be a good place to get feedback.

 

[funinspace]

I’d say he got it half right, as you also strongly suggested in your thread title that Moore is in favor of Trump over Clinton (aka WOW... Michael Moore is all in for Trump). So was that just and only an inflammatory title to get us posters to read the thread? Or what?

Just damned dude!

The clips are obviously posted by the right wing. All political ads both right and left are only half truths if they even contain that much truth. Anyone with any awareness at all knows that Moore would never vote for Trump.

Does Will Wiley have ‘awareness’ when he asks “Is that really Michael Moore?” in his thread (that is a rhetorical question)?
http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?9600-Michael-Moore-on-Donald-Trump

It took until your 4th post to clarify what had become obvious, that several posters were unsure of what you were thinking, including me. This is the Wild Wild Web, where some people can’t even figure out that The Onion is a satire site. So color me confused, if I don’t have everyone’s level of awareness & political views memorized….

The title was a reflection of the impression of what the clip was trying to give. Trump faithful will not question that it was all true - the Clinton faithful will automatically scoff - the old Bernie supporters, I don't know. Most will vote for Clinton, some for Johnson, and some for Stein but many are still pissed and I don't know how they will see the clip so I was wondering. And since we do have several old Bernie supporters on this forum, I figured it would be a good place to get feedback.

Yes, it is a good place for such feedback, I just wish you had been a little more clear from the get go. I think far more of the posters on this site were originally Bernie supporters over being part of the Clinton faithful. And I don’t recall anyone throwing out a transmission, and jumping on a pogo stick for Trump, when Bernie’s ship ran aground. And I don’t even think there were many people here that were ‘rah, rah’ for Clinton to begin with. I would doubt that an alt-right hack job on a Moore production will get much traction within Bernie World. My college age son really really wanted Bernie to win the Democratic primary, yet he has already voted to Clinton. I know of at least 2 of his friends that are the same. What I don't know of, is the mythical Bernie supporter that wants to say 'Fuck You' to DC and now supports Trump. I'm sure there are at least a dozen former Bernie supporters that now support Trump, but somehow I doubt that it is a movement with fifty people a day switching...

For myself, I live in a safe state for Clinton, so I was going to vote for the LP candidate. But lately, I've been leaning towards a 'Fuck You' towards Trump by pinching my nose and voting for Clinton.

 

[Elixir]

Just damned dude!

The clips are obviously posted by the right wing. All political ads both right and left are only half truths if they even contain that much truth. Anyone with any awareness at all knows that Moore would never vote for Trump.

Does Will Wiley have ‘awareness’ when he asks “Is that really Michael Moore?” in his thread (that is a rhetorical question)?
http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?9600-Michael-Moore-on-Donald-Trump

It took until your 4th post to clarify what had become obvious, that several posters were unsure of what you were thinking, including me. This is the Wild Wild Web, where some people can’t even figure out that The Onion is a satire site. So color me confused, if I don’t have everyone’s level of awareness & political views memorized….

The title was a reflection of the impression of what the clip was trying to give. Trump faithful will not question that it was all true - the Clinton faithful will automatically scoff - the old Bernie supporters, I don't know. Most will vote for Clinton, some for Johnson, and some for Stein but many are still pissed and I don't know how they will see the clip so I was wondering. And since we do have several old Bernie supporters on this forum, I figured it would be a good place to get feedback.

Yes, it is a good place for such feedback, I just wish you had been a little more clear from the get go. I think far more of the posters on this site were originally Bernie supporters over being part of the Clinton faithful. And I don’t recall anyone throwing out a transmission, and jumping on a pogo stick for Trump, when Bernie’s ship ran aground. And I don’t even think there were many people here that were ‘rah, rah’ for Clinton to begin with. I would doubt that an alt-right hack job on a Moore production will get much traction within Bernie World. My college age son really really wanted Bernie to win the Democratic primary, yet he has already voted to Clinton. I know of at least 2 of his friends that are the same. What I don't know of, is the mythical Bernie supporter that wants to say 'Fuck You' to DC and now supports Trump. I'm sure there are at least a dozen former Bernie supporters that now support Trump, but somehow I doubt that it is a movement with fifty people a day switching...

For myself, I live in a safe state for Clinton, so I was going to vote for the LP candidate. But lately, I've been leaning towards a 'Fuck You' towards Trump by pinching my nose and voting for Clinton.

Even if you're in a "safe" state for Clinton, I'd urge you to vote for her just to run up the numbers. Trump is going to whine and cry when he loses, and his supporters will be all butt-hurt and ready to call it rigged unless it's a true blowout. I, like your son (I could probably be your father), was avidly supporting Bernie's run and have little love for the Clintons. But someone is going to appoint justices to the SCOTUS, and I know what kind of company Cheeto-face keeps.

 

[Thomas II]

As a Bernie supporter, it doesn't resonate at all with me. I understand the wanting to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but Bernie wanted to do that by taking care of the basic needs of every person in the US and by removing money from politics, and you know the rest.

Trump supporters do not seem to be aware of what money in politics means. If you don't mind your great fuck you messiah doing everything he can to take advantage of money in politics, i.e., effectively stealing from taxpayers, also stealing from donors to his non-profit to pay his own legal bills, stiffing contractors, and bragging about all of it, then why would you mind it from other politicians? Greed and corruption don't actually bother a Trump supporter.

Bernie's ideas in this regard are clearly in opposition.

Anyone paying attention this election year should not be at all confused about what drives Bernie supporters vs. what drives Trump supporters. "Angry" doesn't mean "violent." Any violence, threats, slurs, and divisive behaviors have come overwhelmingly from Trump supporters.

If they had as much power to punish others as they are slobbering for, Trump supporters would not spare a socialist (even a democratic one, and even if they knew the difference). Bernie supporters tend to like the "we are all in this together" ideology. We all want to smash stuff, but those Trump people seem to favor literal smashing over the metaphorical kind. They seem stuck on "us vs. them" and they don't care who falls into "them" as long as Muslims and black people are there, too.

I don't think Michael was very convincing about what drives Trump supporters, anyway. He spends a lot of time among people with strongly opposing views to his, and he is as susceptible to negativity bias as anyone. And I think he's wrong. He makes it sound like the subset of citizens who have pooled together under a giant wind sock of fear mongering and prejudice are there in noble defiance and not, in fact, impressionable people being dangerously manipulated after having spent a couple of decades being groomed like Manchurian candidates by right wing media.

I do not think a large number of Bernie supporters would jump on this bandwagon. Just because delusional people think electing Trump equates to a justly deserved fuck you to all they believe makes Murica not great doesn't mean anyone with a middle finger up is as ignorant as that. And it's not even that I think Bernie supporters are rationally deciding this. They may be people who do make rational decisions, but as a group, they don't tend to carry that deep mistrust and negativity toward out-groups like right wing authoritarians do. That basic regard for Others is a strong driving factor in what kind of ideology you develop and what beliefs and stories will grab and validate those feelings.

I'm with you. Moore lost me there.