Would You Choose to Live in Heaven?

[Learner]

Or...

He knows you're capable of being one or the other (or a little of both) AND allows you to do what you want as an independent entity. It's up to you, as the saying goes.

Aaah, so you are one of those who does not believe that your god knows everything, that he knows all that will happen and has known since the beginning of time.


(Why did he create Satan, again? I forgot...)

That wouldn't be Omniscient or ALL knowing.

It's somewhat like the video game (for lack of better analogy). God KNOWS ALL the various fork-road outcomes or results even see various parralleli-universe-thingybob-possibles of satan. It seems reasonable to me (Biblically in concept) WHY it would be neccessary for 'self-thinking' entities to choose his or her OWN path independently BEFORE living in God's intended world to come.

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule?

People have said no - that's all it boils down to imho.

 

[Rhea]

Or...

He knows you're capable of being one or the other (or a little of both) AND allows you to do what you want as an independent entity. It's up to you, as the saying goes.

Aaah, so you are one of those who does not believe that your god knows everything, that he knows all that will happen and has known since the beginning of time.


(Why did he create Satan, again? I forgot...)

That wouldn't be Omniscient or ALL knowing.

It's somewhat like the video game (for lack of better analogy). God KNOWS ALL the various fork-road outcomes or results even see various parralleli-universe-thingybob-possibles of satan. It seems reasonable to me (Biblically in concept) WHY it would be neccessary for 'self-thinking' entities to choose his or her OWN path independently BEFORE living in God's intended world to come.

So are you saying that no, you do not believe that your god knows all? That he is powerless to predict (or affect) the future? Lots of religionists that I know disagree with you completely. The “it all happens for a reason” tribe, for example. Just trying to make sure I correctly hear which kind of cherries you are picking.

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule?

I do not understand the definitions of “God’s world” or “Jesus’ Rule” in your mind. Since you contradict other Christians I know, I need you to spell it out, as clearly as if you are the only one who believes it and you need to be clear to the rest of the world.

 

[Learner]

So are you saying that no, you do not believe that your god knows all? That he is powerless to predict (or affect) the future? Lots of religionists that I know disagree with you completely. The “it all happens for a reason” tribe, for example. Just trying to make sure I correctly hear which kind of cherries you are picking.

No I'm not saying "I do not believe God know's all." Obvious indication to the theists is: Revelation prophesies the written future! The conclusion is already known !!

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule?

I do not understand the definitions of “God’s world” or “Jesus’ Rule” in your mind. Since you contradict other Christians I know, I need you to spell it out, as clearly as if you are the only one who believes it and you need to be clear to the rest of the world.

Ok, So then to the definitions of the Christians that you DO know....

..If there is some idea or understanding that you do have of the new Heaven and new-earth paradise described in the bible - as according to those Christians you know. Would you WANT to live under that rulership of Jesus with what you know?
(I'm assuming you do have some view because you are regularly debating and discussing theism)

Differences on the whole among other Christians... would likely be trivial, NOT so drastic, as it seems to me you're making out.

 

[DBT]

Or...

He knows you're capable of being one or the other (or a little of both) AND allows you to do what you want as an independent entity. It's up to you, as the saying goes.

Aaah, so you are one of those who does not believe that your god knows everything, that he knows all that will happen and has known since the beginning of time.


(Why did he create Satan, again? I forgot...)

That wouldn't be Omniscient or ALL knowing.

It's somewhat like the video game (for lack of better analogy). God KNOWS ALL the various fork-road outcomes or results even see various parralleli-universe-thingybob-possibles of satan. It seems reasonable to me (Biblically in concept) WHY it would be neccessary for 'self-thinking' entities to choose his or her OWN path independently BEFORE living in God's intended world to come.

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule?

People have said no - that's all it boils down to imho.

To choose your own path based on factors you have no control over, genetics, circumstances, desires, fears, or things that you may have no awareness of? Yet all of this being perfectly transparent to Omniscience? What does this say about God?

 

[Rhea]

No I'm not saying "I do not believe God know's all." Obvious indication to the theists is: Revelation prophesies the written future! The conclusion is already known !!

So you DO believe god knows before someone does wrong hat the are going to do wrong, and he creates them anyway?

I do not understand the definitions of “God’s world” or “Jesus’ Rule” in your mind. Since you contradict other Christians I know, I need you to spell it out, as clearly as if you are the only one who believes it and you need to be clear to the rest of the world.

Ok, So then to the definitions of the Christians that you DO know....

..If there is some idea or understanding that you do have of the new Heaven and new-earth paradise described in the bible - as according to those Christians you know. Would you WANT to live under that rulership of Jesus with what you know?
(I'm assuming you do have some view because you are regularly debating and discussing theism)

Differences on the whole among other Christians... would likely be trivial, NOT so drastic, as it seems to me you're making out.

The Christians that I know contradict each other, as well as you.

So are you asking me to pick a path based on a definition of path that you won’t provide, but then I pick one definition and you say I’m wrong? That doesn’t seem like an interesting conversation at all.

You asked me to make a choice between two things. Please clarify the two things so I can answer in good faith.

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule?

Please describe God’s World and Jesus’ Rule that you want me to choose between for your thought exercise.

 

[Learner]

Back to slavery in the bible...

I am assuming that Learner is declining to define his two choices that he asked me to choose between, so his question cannot be taken as serious.

I DID decline. But not as you think I did...

I felt that you just didn't want to admit you would NOT want to live in a paradise under a rulership such as God or Jesus, as generally understood i.e. everlasting-life with no death, no sickness, no wickedness, no poor, no hungry or suffering etc.. As strange as it may seem - with no demands that you answer, and for whatever reason it was to you., I thought to just let it go..

But I see I've made the wrong assumption now seeing your post quoted above - although, you're STILL asking definitions (new earth, new world) which would now be a 3rd time.

 

[Rhea]

Back to slavery in the bible...

I am assuming that Learner is declining to define his two choices that he asked me to choose between, so his question cannot be taken as serious.

I DID decline. But not as you think I did...

I felt that you just didn't want to admit you would NOT want to live in a paradise under a ruler such as God or Jesus, as generally understood i.e. everlasting-life with no death, no sickness, no wickedness, no poor, no hungry or suffering etc.. As strange as it may seem - with no demands that you answer, and for whatever reason it was to you., I thought to let it go..

You assumed to know what I was thinking, so you ignored what I was saying.

That is so annoying. And arrogant.
You don’t know what I’m thinking.
Focus on what I’m saying and maybe you will be less ignorant of the conversation and less rude to the people in it.

Sorry - but that is a mighty peeve of mine when people ignore my questions, which I work hard ot make understandable and clear, because they think they are so damned smart that they know what I’m thinking and I can’t possibly have something in my head that they don’t know, and would need to listen and absorb in order to learn.. The arrogant declaration that they have nothing to learn from talking with me, they already know everything I could think.

I find that intolerable. If that’s the way you think of your partners in conversation then you are a waste of time.

 

[Rhea]

- although, you're STILL asking definitions (new earth, new world) which would now be a 3rd time.

You asked me if I wanted to live in world A or world B. I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, so I ASKED YOU to clarify.

I supposed I could have assumed to know what you meant and answered my own fantasy question, but I don’t roll that way.
If you don’t want your question answered with thoughtful accurate understanding, then your question was a waste of time.

 

[Learner]

Heaven... lets just say heaven.


Its often been used in discussions.

 

[Rhea]

If you want me to answer a question about heaven, you had better describe what you mean by heaven. I know of multiple, contradictory definitions of heaven, and if I choose one that’s not yours, we will waste a bunch of time with you telling me, “no, not that heaven.”

Why is it so hard for you to hear and understand my request for clarification?
You want me to choose between World A and World B. I have NO IDEA what you mean by world A and world B. I have NO KNOWLEDGE of the assumptions you make.

Describe World A
Describe World B
Give the limits and attributes of each.

I do not wish to play coy games. Either explain the premise of your question or it is a waste of time and you are just being a smug christian.

 

[Learner]

There's no world A or B..

It's was either a yes or no.

(I will have continue another time.)

 

[Rhea]

There's no world A or B..

It's was either a yes or no.

(I will have continue another time.)

You should be better acquainted with what you wrote. Here, I’ll annotate it for you:

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in (A) a place like God's world or (B) system under Jesus's rule?

People have said no - that's all it boils down to imho.

You said would you rather live here OR here. Note your word “or” that I have highlighted for you in blue.

Now you can see why it is incumbent upon you to clarify yourself.


Also, I have no idea what “God’s World,” OR “Jesus Rule” even means.
So you can see why it is incumbent upon you to clarify yourself.


This sentence does not request a yes or no answer.
“ Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule? ”
It is not a yes/no question, it is an either/or question.

And even if you did word it as a yes/no question, your refusal to simply say what the hell you mean by “God’s World,” or “Jesus Rule” is lunacy. My answer would be “Dump Truck” and it would make perfect sense to me.

What is “god’s world?” This one we’re on? What is Jesus’ rule? People going to church and speaking in tongues? What on earth do you mean?

 

[Lion IRC]

...Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule

I would rather live in freedom.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.

John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

 

[bilby]

...Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule

I would rather live in freedom.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.

John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Ah, yes. Complete freedom to do whatever you want, just like in Stalin's Soviet Union. You can do absolutely anything. But you will be watched, and if you don't do what the guy in charge wants you to do, or you even think things he doesn't want you to think, then you will be severely punished.

So wonderfully free we are under the benign rule of the tyrant.

 

[Learner]

There's no world A or B..

It's was either a yes or no.

(I will have continue another time.)

You should be better acquainted with what you wrote. Here, I’ll annotate it for you:

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in (A) a place like God's world or (B) system under Jesus's rule?

People have said no - that's all it boils down to imho.

You said would you rather live here OR here. Note your word “or” that I have highlighted for you in blue.

Now you can see why it is incumbent upon you to clarify yourself.

Noted, fair enough the fault is mine. It was missing just one comma:

Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system, under Jesus's rule?

People have said no - that's all it boils down to imho.

It wasn't a good choice of words to phrase the question admittedly, so When I said, "God's world or system," it was meant to mean.. which ever way you see it as, or call it. No games or speaking tongues - It WAS a 'yes or no' question. And in whatever definition in context to paradise or heaven is used.. Jesus would understandably (as written) be RULER in any case! Hope that's a little clearer.

 

[Learner]

I would rather live in freedom.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.

John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

You chose well, Lion heart!

 

[Rhea]

so When I said, "God's world or system," it was meant to mean.. which ever way you see it as, or call it. No games or speaking tongues - It WAS a 'yes or no' question. And in whatever definition in context to paradise or heaven is used.. Jesus would understandably (as written) be RULER in any case! Hope that's a little clearer.

I don’t understand. Is it God’s world or Jesus’? Who is the ruler?

And what are the rules? What are you asking me if I’d like? I have no idea what the world you propose looks like.
No. Idea.

Is it one long neverending existing trying to go up a down elevator?
Is it existence as a bee?
Is it stuck in a simulation of my first grade classroom?
What world are you talking about? What is the description? You keep ASSUMING that I am picturing whatever you are picturing and can make a choice that has relevance to what you envision. But since I have NO IDEA what you envision, any answer I give is going to be “Dump Trucks” because I have NO IDEA what “God’s World” is even like.

Is it a place where people are turned to pillars of salt and drowned regularly? Is it a place where people are told suffering is beautiful because it emulates what the ruler Jesus went through? Those are things I know about your god and your jesus.

And what is the alternative? Is there only one choice and anihilation is the alternative?

 

[Rhea]

I would rather live in freedom.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.

John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

You chose well, Lion heart!

But it doesn’t SAY anything. ??
It doesn’t describe what freedom means and what it is. You ask 5 different Americans what “Freedom!” means and you will NOT be living in the same simulation. So Lion’s verses seem like pablum, designed to be whatever you want it to be. “Feel Good Faith” as it were.

How is such shallow pablum satisfying to you? You dont even know if you and Lion picture the same world when you read it. He might think “Freedom” is carrying a gun everywhere and going maskless in a pandemic and laughing when he Owns the Libs!!1!!

 

[ideologyhunter]

...Therefore the question I'd ask:

Simply put (my level grade). Do YOU, would you want to live in a place like God's world or system under Jesus's rule

I would rather live in freedom.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Psalm 119:45 I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.

John 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Abide ye in liberty...until the Lord comes. (LDS D&C 88:86)

Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. (Quran 17:81)

Those who leave here knowing who they are and what they truly desire have freedom everywhere. (Chandogya Upanishad)

Davey: Gollllly!! What kind o' believin' should I do, Goliath?
Goliath: I don't know, Davey. I'm just a dog. But I should think, pick one without magic and a lot of crazy stories.

Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now; the place to be happy is here; the way to be happy is to make others happy. -Robert Ingersoll

 

[Learner]

so When I said, "God's world or system," it was meant to mean.. which ever way you see it as, or call it. No games or speaking tongues - It WAS a 'yes or no' question. And in whatever definition in context to paradise or heaven is used.. Jesus would understandably (as written) be RULER in any case! Hope that's a little clearer.

I don’t understand. Is it God’s world or Jesus’? Who is the ruler?

It's best I use just one term paradise, if you're ok with that, so we can move on. General understanding: Jesus is Ruler (by Gods side) in context that He is appointed by God as King over ALL kings on Earth to come.

And what are the rules? What are you asking me if I’d like? I have no idea what the world you propose looks like.
No. Idea.

Is it one long neverending existing trying to go up a down elevator?
Is it existence as a bee?
Is it stuck in a simulation of my first grade classroom?
What world are you talking about? What is the description? You keep ASSUMING that I am picturing whatever you are picturing and can make a choice that has relevance to what you envision. But since I have NO IDEA what you envision, any answer I give is going to be “Dump Trucks” because I have NO IDEA what “God’s World” is even like.

Is it a place where people are turned to pillars of salt and drowned regularly? Is it a place where people are told suffering is beautiful because it emulates what the ruler Jesus went through? Those are things I know about your god and your jesus.

As you said previously, "I contradict those Christians that you know" - and so I'm curious to ask. Are those above in your list description, a gist of some of the versions told to you by your Christian friends?

Basically, as its written and generally understood. There's no more suffering pain, no death or disease, but theres abundance of various things that caters for every need e.g. no more hunger or thirst etc. in the paradise, and not to forget, also seeing your loved ones and above all ... God.

Perhaps do a little survey asking your Christian friends if they generally understand it, at least to some degree, to see if they see it the same way as I described.

( we may get to the Yes and NO question - 'eventually' )

And what is the alternative? Is there only one choice and anihilation is the alternative?

What I just put above sounds quite nice to me.