Would You Choose to Live in Heaven?

[James Brown]

I wouldn't want to live in Heaven until I can see it for myself. Inspect the plumbing, check the wiring, talk to reputable inspectors who can assure me the buildings are up to code. I'd also like to talk to current residents, see if they feel like they've gotten good value for their time and effort.

Investing in property sight unseen is foolish, in my view. It's too easy to oversell something through a slick brochure that's long on promises and short on facts.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I wouldn't want to live in Heaven until I can see it for myself. Inspect the plumbing, check the wiring, talk to reputable inspectors who can assure me the buildings are up to code. I'd also like to talk to current residents, see if they feel like they've gotten good value for their time and effort.

Investing in property sight unseen is foolish, in my view. It's too easy to oversell something through a slick brochure that's long on promises and short on facts.

Yes, but if you were four years old and someone asked you if you wanted to go live at the North Pole with Santa, what would you say?

 

[ideologyhunter]

I wouldn't want to live in Heaven until I can see it for myself. Inspect the plumbing, check the wiring, talk to reputable inspectors who can assure me the buildings are up to code. I'd also like to talk to current residents, see if they feel like they've gotten good value for their time and effort.

Investing in property sight unseen is foolish, in my view. It's too easy to oversell something through a slick brochure that's long on promises and short on facts.

In that case, do what I did: put down a deposit on a timeshare, but make sure you have cancellation privileges. I rent from Oprah, and she aint even dead yet. I got on the Harpo Productions website. The first place I signed up for turned out to be in a real douchebag section -- my neighbors on either side were Henry & Clare Booth Luce and Roy Rogers & Dale Evans -- fuck that. I called Harpo and got a new location -- neighbor on one side is Mahalia Jackson and on the other, Jerry Clower. So that's half wonderful (the Mahalia side.) If you want to be perfectly safe, arrange to pay Harpo from a bequest but add a codicil that they can't unilaterally move in any dead televangelists or anyone who will keep you up all night speaking in tongues. There are good locations still to be rented.

 

[Lion IRC]

If you're in a comatose/unconscious state you don't know whether or not you're "happy".
If you've been annihilated you don't know anything about anything.
If you're drugged/drunk you're not able to think clearly about your state of happiness.
Virtual reality is a nebulous state. It's NOT real - by definition.

These examples are unlike the real conscious awareness of happiness in heaven Learner has described.

 

[Lion IRC]

I would have thought that atheists who boast about their supposedly greater knowledge of the bible wouldn't need to ask Learner what the bible says about heaven.

Yet another example of atheists not knowing much about what it is they say doesn't exist.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Somehow, that's better than knowing the full scoop and all the rules about something that was cooked up in the ancients' imaginations.

 

[Lion IRC]

Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.

 

[Rhea]

I would have thought that atheists who boast about their supposedly greater knowledge of the bible wouldn't need to ask Learner what the bible says about heaven.

Yet another cute dodge to help you theists in your efforts to avoid honesty.

He asks a queston, we all know how many times your people have told us we don’t know how to read the bible. We also know how many different denominations of Christianity tthere are, and how much they disagree, to the point of killing each oher for thousands of years.

So yet another desciple denying Jesus.

Yet another example of atheists not knowing much about what it is they say doesn't exist.

Dood. We said straight up at the very beginning that we don’t know what you are talking about and you’d better explain. Now you try to invent a new dodge by putting on your Self Righteous (tm) cloak and deceitfully pretending that we didn’t say that right at the beginning?

 

[Rhea]

If you're in a comatose/unconscious state you don't know whether or not you're "happy".
If you've been annihilated you don't know anything about anything.
If you're drugged/drunk you're not able to think clearly about your state of happiness.
Virtual reality is a nebulous state. It's NOT real - by definition.

These examples are unlike the real conscious awareness of happiness in heaven Learner has described.

Learner did not describe a consciout state. He described a lack of sadness and a feeling of hapiness.

 

[Rhea]

I would have thought that atheists who boast about their supposedly greater knowledge of the bible wouldn't need to ask Learner what the bible says about heaven.

Yet another example of atheists not knowing much about what it is they say doesn't exist.

Actually, your link comports fairly closely with what we claim to NOT know. For example, these 10, which I must assume are the best verses you have and hence why you shew them, they do not mention “joy.” Not once.

Crazy, isn’t it!

1. + Revelation 4:2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.
3. + Matthew 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
5. + Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
7. + 1 Corinthians 2:9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him."
9. + 2 Peter 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
11. + 1 Corinthians 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
13. + Revelation 21:1-5 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
15. + Hebrews 13:14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.
17. + Hebrews 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
19. + Revelation 22:1-5 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Looks like it says,

• More than anyone has ever imagined. Biggest inauguration ever.
• Be glad now, because you’ll get it later
• No sadness, no tears.
• City
• River in street
• Worship all day
• Mark on forehead.
• Worship all day

And these are the best verses that Lion has brought to bear to show those dumb atheists how little they know.
Also half of these were some guy’s dream, the same guy who dreamed of whores.
I mean, thank you for FINALLY giving some description - not sure why this couldn’t have been done 90 posts ago. So thanks for that.
But this doesn’t really add anything to what made us skeptical in the first place - pig in a poke. No sadness, worship all day, river in the street.


Fo all I know, “no sadness” means not caring that my children are burning in fire. Which doesn’t sound appealing to me.

 

[funinspace]

I would have thought that atheists who boast about their supposedly greater knowledge of the bible wouldn't need to ask Learner what the bible says about heaven.

Yet another example of atheists not knowing much about what it is they say doesn't exist.

I know enough to provide a much clearer context of what your holy book states about 'seeing your loved ones' again in this claimed heaven...but please continue having fun with your strawmen and games...

Basically, as its written and generally understood. There's no more suffering pain, no death or disease, but theres abundance of various things that caters for every need e.g. no more hunger or thirst etc. in the paradise, and not to forget, also seeing your loved ones and above all ... God.

Perhaps do a little survey asking your Christian friends if they generally understand it, at least to some degree, to see if they see it the same way as I described.

According to your Bible, you may 'see your loved ones', but it certainly won't be anything like it was in earthly human form. There is purported to no longer be marriage, and I think it would be safe to assume that there would be no sensuality with said loved one. And without tears or pain, it raises big questions about how this new human form thinks and how much it would have to be changed to deal with those that weren't let in, assuming of course the proponent of heaven also believes in the opposing hell for everybody else. How does one not have pain about a son, daughter, wife, brother, mother, or father that is not there, and therefore in eternal torment? How does this new self exist, and how much changed would your brain/thinking process have to be, to not be disturbed by such?

The NT continues on this rather antiquated and deformed view of human sexuality with its fantasy eternal life theme...

Christian reference on heaven and marriage: https://www.crosswalk.com/family/marriage/will-i-still-be-married-to-my-spouse-in-heaven.html

 

[Lion IRC]

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven...

rejoice
/rɪˈdʒɔɪs/
verb
feel or show great joy or delight.

 

[Lion IRC]

If my loved ones didn't want to be with me in heaven I would respect their wishes.

 

[Rhea]

Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven...

rejoice
/rɪˈdʒɔɪs/
verb
feel or show great joy or delight.

Right - and you notice, as I said, that it says to rejoice NOW because later on something will happen?
All it says about later on is that there will be no sadness. Like if you are aniihhilated later, you won’t be sad. So rejoice and be glad for you will be rewarded with no sadness later!

 

[Rhea]

If my loved ones didn't want to be with me in heaven I would respect their wishes.

I like how you take “didn’t want to be with me,” from “they will burn in torment forever for not knowing what to choose.”

Maybe you’re okay with that for your kids. I would be haunted and destroyed by my kids in torment forever.

 

[funinspace]

If my loved ones didn't want to be with me in heaven I would respect their wishes.

I like how you take “didn’t want to be with me,” from “they will burn in torment forever for not knowing what to choose.”

Maybe you’re okay with that for your kids. I would be haunted and destroyed by my kids in torment forever.

Yeah, fun and games, and a hell of a dodge...

But then, in this new heavenly form, Lion won't be able to give a shit either...so in a twisted way he could be right, if the holy book is on the money.

PS If one wants to promote some notion of a heavenly afterlife, it would be nice if the same person would be forthright about what they think what happens to everyone outside of their party town..per their interpretation of said holy book.

 

[Lion IRC]

If my loved ones didn't want to be with me in heaven I would respect their wishes.

I like how you take “didn’t want to be with me,” from “they will burn in torment forever for not knowing what to choose.”

Maybe you’re okay with that for your kids. I would be haunted and destroyed by my kids in torment forever.

Yeah, fun and games, and a hell of a dodge...

But then, in this new heavenly form, Lion won't be able to give a shit either...so in a twisted way he could be right, if the holy book is on the money.

PS If one wants to promote some notion of a heavenly afterlife, it would be nice if the same person would be forthright about what they think what happens to everyone outside of their party town..per their interpretation of said holy book.

God / The Bible is very clear that each person is judged individually according to their actions and what's in their heart. Only deliberate, wilful, unrepentant sin is punished. (See Romans 2:6)

If someone is honestly ignorant or sincerely mistaken and whose actions show they have the intent in their heart to be a 'good' person, God weighs this up with mercy. He also judges more harshly those who should know better. (See Luke 12:47 James 4:17 John 9:41)

Proverbs 24:12
If you say, “See, we did not know this,”
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his works?

 

[funinspace]

Yeah, fun and games, and a hell of a dodge...

But then, in this new heavenly form, Lion won't be able to give a shit either...so in a twisted way he could be right, if the holy book is on the money.

PS If one wants to promote some notion of a heavenly afterlife, it would be nice if the same person would be forthright about what they think what happens to everyone outside of their party town..per their interpretation of said holy book.

God / The Bible is very clear that each person is judged individually according to their actions and what's in their heart. Only deliberate, wilful, unrepentant sin is punished. (See Romans 2:6)

If someone is honestly ignorant or sincerely mistaken and whose actions show they have the intent in their heart to be a 'good' person, God weighs this up with mercy. He also judges more harshly those who should know better. (See Luke 12:47 James 4:17 John 9:41)

Proverbs 24:12
If you say, “See, we did not know this,”
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his works?

So is that an eternal Auschwitz for the masses (aka billions of people), or what in your POV? I'm not a mind reader, and there are many very real and very different views of what hell is (isn't) and who goes there by dozens of significant Christian sects.

I know most of the verses in the Bible regarding hell. I know what I used to believe. I know what Southern Baptists Convention theology states and what the majority of that group thinks. I know what ELCA theology states and what the majority of that group thinks. What is Lion IRC's theological view? Or are you going to just stick to your word games?

PS This is my last try to get you to communicate rationally. If you persist in your word salad games, I will kick off the dust from my keyboard not not be bothered further...

 

[Rhea]

So what we’ve got here so far is,

• Everyone’s paradise is the same. There are no dissenters to what paradise means.
  
• Which is a throne and 24/7 *worship*
• And we are definitely NOT robots there
• It’s just turns out that after we get our new bodies we all think exactly the same thing.
• And it’s totally not creepy.

 

[Rhea]

You know, I do have a question on this one:

+ 1 Corinthians 2:9 But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him."

Okay, three questions.
1. Where is that written? When Paul says, “as it is written,” I expect to see a verse from earlier in the bible that he’s quoting, yanno? Or is Paul writing it the place “where it is written”?
And
2. If no eye has seen, and no ear heard, then is heaven empty at this point? All the humans that have died before are either not in heaven or are not able to see or hear what’s there?
And
3. If the heart of man has not imagined it - what are you two on about? If no one can even imagine it, wha is up with the dreaming guy in revelations? He’s like, “I know Paul said that God said no one can imagine, but ... hold my beer, mkay?” You sure that is kosher with Yahweh?