When did God create the Angels?

[skepticalbip]

To make the KJV of that passage (Psalms 104;4) even more confusing, the Torah version it was translated from reads;

דעֹשֶׂ֣ה מַלְאָכָ֣יו רוּח֑וֹת מְ֜שָֽׁרֲתָ֗יו אֵ֣שׁ לֹהֵֽט: (He makes winds His messengers, burning fire His ministers.)

The KJV translation of this is; "Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire."

 

[skepticalbip]

For a certain definition of "more detailed."

Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.

You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.

 

[James Brown]

You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.

Christians say Jehovah was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This makes Jews roll their eyes.

 

[Rhea]

For a certain definition of "more detailed."

Tigers!, that is what you call detailed?
It doesn't even say he created them, only that he makes their spirits.

I feel like it kind of doesn't provide any detail or even a clear case of "created," or when.

You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

No, I could not determine that. Because the Angels could have been created by a previous being. Or they could have been caused simultaneously to god. Or they could have "always existed" like God is supposed to have. "Heavens" are not angels, heaven is a place.

 

[Learner]

You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.

Also to Rheas post above.

There's tons of indications other than what I've previously mentioned e.g. "Sons" of God , There is only "one" God , There is "no other" but the "Father" in heaven etc.. to point out the few, off the top of my head. Angels have the image of God and man shall have the image of God. In "their" likeness shall man be.

 

[steve_bank]

Interesting thought. In the OT heaven seems to be a diverse community of beings. Satan even rebelled. From that perspective it appears more like Greek mythology. Gods and lessor beings living in a community.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.

 

[Kharakov]

Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.

Who? It was the angles of interaction among all possible paths and leverage points that created God. Not angels. Angles.

ANNNN GULLs.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Has anyone considered that maybe the angels created God?

It would give an answer to the First Cause problem, where theists are asked that if God created the universe, who created God? The answer is that the angels created him and the theist position becomes very logical consistent.

Who? It was the angles of interaction among all possible paths and leverage points that created God. Not angels. Angles.

ANNNN GULLs.

And angles were created by Gabriel and Michael when they first invented pool and wanted to have a way for the balls to bounce of the sides.

It's angels all the way down.

 

[Kharakov]

You just wanted to say balls.

Lol. Steve Colbert said "and the magic 8ball says try again later" when I clicked back into FB from this thread (it paused the video when I opened this thread). Wait. You're a denizen of the net.


Balls.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

You mean you couldn't determine that, when its written, that God created the "heavens and earth" , being the Alpha and the Omega and there being no mention of angels having that ability to create or do such things? You don't have to be a believer to figure out, at the least, the gist of the theme .

No mention that the angels did create such things doesn't mean that the angels didn't have the power. It could be that they didn't choose to. It, however, still leaves the question of who god was talking to when he used pronouns like "we" and "our" while he was doing his creation schtick.

His lout sons

6:1-2
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Anyway, all this is moot if you live in one of the 25 Stand Your Ground states. If an angel gets in your house, you can shoot the damn thing. Say Whaaat? Say Hell yes. If some glowing jackass gets in my house I'm assuming it's someone high on some new drug that's stronger than fentanyl. And out comes Polly Jo (my shotgun.)

 

[Rhea]

His lout sons

6:1-2
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Now wait a second. Plot hole. Doesn’t it later say god only had the one son?

Does that mean Jesus fathered all the human children afer that generation? Which would make him his own great-great (60x) grandfather?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

His lout sons

6:1-2
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Now wait a second. Plot hole. Doesn’t it later say god only had the one son?

Does that mean Jesus fathered all the human children afer that generation? Which would make him his own great-great (60x) grandfather?

There was an ancient idea, that irritated the orthodox to no end, that Satan and Jesus were brothers.

 

[DBT]

I think Morman's believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

 

[ideologyhunter]

It's hard to know what Mormons believe, because some of their recent presidents have refused to affirm some of the old beliefs in interviews. Brigham Young gave extensive sermons on some themes that, for a variety of reasons, have been either discarded by the church of put into a sort of twilight where talk is discouraged. Examples: Adam is God; God was a man who rose to a deified state; there will forever be a blood curse on interracial marriage. Churches run by 'prophets' and 'revelators' tend toward kookiness.