• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

What provoked the Axial Age?

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 27, 2000
Messages
26,850
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Bellah_RBB.pdf at Cliodynamics by Peter Turchin, a biologist turned historian.

He reviews sociologist Robert Bellah's book Religion in Human Evolution, which he thinks has some important ideas about it.

It is about what provoked the emergence of the Axial Age philosophies and religions. That term was coined by philosopher Karl Jaspers around 1930, who proposed that several revolutionary belief systems emerged around 800 to 200 CE across Eurasia.

Greece: The various philosophers, notably Plato and Aristotle
Israel: Judaism
Persia: Zoroastrianism
India: Upanishads, Jainism, Buddhism
China: Confucianism, Taoism

Peter Turchin proposes that they had emerged as a result of pressure from horse-riding archers from the Great Eurasian Steppe. That's a long belt of grassland and semidesert which extends from east central Europe to northern China. The more settled people had to get better organized to fight them, and that led to Axial-Age religions and philosophies and ideologies.

Not just direct pressure, but also indirect pressure, from the Persians on all these societies but China. The Persians themselves were originally some of these nomads, and when they settled down, they got under pressure from the nomads to their north.


Why that? PT has some interesting arguments about social cohesion in large-scale societies.

Humanity had originated in small-scale societies where everybody had known each other. But we have limits on how many of us we can be familiar with and keep track of. Anthropologist Robin Dunbar has extrapolated brain size and social-group size from our nearest relatives and found that we have an expected size of about 150 ( Dunbar's number, sometimes cited as between 100 and 230). That does not mean that each of us can only keep track of 150 people, only that it's hard to have close relations with more than 150.

With Paleolithic food-collection technology -- foraging -- it was hard for many people to live in one area, so our ancestors were spread out enough to avoid bumping into Dunbar's number too much. But with Neolithic food-collection technology -- agriculture -- many more people could live near each other, in groups much larger than Dunbar's number. How do we keep from fighting each other?

PT proposes that large-scale societies emerged as a result of some earlier small ones conquering others. But how to make such conquests last? Force is not enough, because conquest alone tends to provoke rebellion. So one has to look for some other source of legitimacy.

A common one in early societies was the divinity of monarchs. Kings are gods or descendants of gods or provincial governors of gods. That has worked, but it has limits. One can beat Dunbar's number, but one has difficulty getting much beyond a city-state. An early solution has been to do syncretism like crazy, associating gods worshipped by people in different places. PT did not mention that solution, and PT and RB likely think that Axial Age belief systems were a solution superior to syncretism of localized religions.


A notable feature of Axial-Age belief systems is universality. They feature a universal god or a universal impersonal natural order, though these often coexist with lots of smaller-scale deities. They are also transethnic, going beyond individual localities and individual ethnicities. These features made them convenient for uniting populations over large areas, because they could all acknowledge the same god or the same natural order. Their universality also made it easier for them to spread, since they were not tied to specific localities. They could thus leave Dunbar's number in the dust.


Judaism is an oddity, it must be said. Ancient Israel was originally polytheist and much like its neighbors, and Yahweh, its national god, was originally a rather local one. He could even be stymied by iron chariots (Judges 1:19). But a Yahweh-only faction emerged, demanding worship of this god as the only god, to discourage worshipping the gods of foreigners. King Josiah even tried to make the Jerusalem Temple the only legitimate place for worshipping Yahweh. But then the Babylonian Exile happened. Some of the exiled ones made Yahweh into a universal god, one who could be worshipped anywhere, no matter how far away from Jerusalem one was.

Judaism has remained an ethnic religion to this day, making it only partially Axialized, but some Jewish sects have become transethnic religions and thus fully Axialized: Christianity and Islam.


Turning to those philosophers, their work attracted interest far beyond Greece, and their successors in various places advanced far beyond them. Those successors ended up developing modern science, which is thoroughly Axialized.

Universal impersonal natural order? Check.
Its practice being transethnic? Check.

Strictly speaking, a science of god(s) is not impossible, but god(s) have been unnecessary hypotheses so far. If there were any, they would almost certainly be universal ones and not some deities of a particular group.


Also, some notable social and political ideologies of recent centuries are thoroughly Axialized, like democracy and capitalist libertarianism and Marxism.
 
Gore Vidal wrote a novel about the Axial Age, "Creation". He imagined a Persian-Empire official who wandered to Greece and India and China, learning lots of interesting things on the way. The official was a Zoroastrian, a worshipper of the "Wise Lord" (Ahura Mazda).


Now some chronologies. Here's one for ancient Israel.

  • ~1800 BCE. Hyksos travel from Canaan to the eastern Nile Delta, overrunning it. Remembered as the Israelites going in Egypt?
  • ~1600 BCE? Thera eruption. Refugees from Keftiu (Crete) settle in Egypt. Remembered as the Ten Plagues of Egypt?
  • ~1550 BCE? Ahmose I leads the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt to Canaan. Remembered as the Exodus?
  • ~1500 - 1200 BCE: New Kingdom. Egypt rules Canaan, Lebanon, W Syria. Remembered as subjection to Egypt?
  • ~1200 BCE: Merneptah proclaims among his triumphs that "Israel is destroyed. Its seed is no more."
  • ~1200 BCE: Sea Peoples on the move. They devastate the eastern Mediterranean. Mycenaean Greek and Hittite societies collapse. Egyptians record fighting off the Sea Peoples. Remembered as the disorders in Joshua and Judges?
  • ~1000 BCE: Pig bones start becoming scarce in the Canaanite highlands. Beginning of the Jewish rejection of pork?
  • ~1000 BCE: Kings David and Solomon, though they ruled a much smaller area than the Bible credits them with. Tel Dan: "House of David".
  • 880 BCE: King Omri of the northern kingdom. Assyrians mention the "House of Omri" after that, and the carver of the Mesha Stele mentions a descendant of him.
  • 740 - 722 BCE: Northern kingdom conquered by Assyria. Their ten tribes are assimilated and never heard from again.
  • 701 BCE: Southern kingdom under King Hezekiah survives siege by Assyria.
  • 622 BCE: During King Josiah's reign, high priest Hilkiah "discovered" a "book of the Law" in the Jerusalem Temple. It mandated worshipping YHWH, the One True God, in his One True Temple in the One True Capital City. It was likely an early version of the Book of Deuteronomy.
  • 597 - 586 BCE: Deportation to Babylon. The exiled ones establish worship of YHWH away from the Jerusalem Temple. He is everywhere, and not just in Jerusalem.
  • 539 BCE: King Cyrus of Persia permits exiles to return to their old home. Start of Zoroastrian influence.
  • 332 BCE: Alexander the Great conquers the area.
  • 200 - 100 BCE: Tanakh / Old Testament canonized. The more orthodox Jews resist the Seleucids' efforts to make them assimilate into Greek culture.
  • 167 - 129 BCE: Maccabees / Hasmoneans successfully revolt against the Seleucids and take over the area. Hanukkah commemorates that event.
  • 63 BCE: Roman general Pompey conquers the area, makes it a Roman client state.
  • ~50 CE: Paul pushes a sect that worships the Jewish Messiah as crucified in Heaven. Most other Jews reject it, and it becomes Christianity.
  • 66 - 73 CE: First Jewish revolt against Rome. Brutally crushed.
  • 115 - 117 CE: Second Jewish revolt against Rome. Brutally crushed.
  • 131 - 136 CE: Third Jewish revolt against Rome. Brutally crushed.

Zoroaster was the possibly-legendary founder of Zoroastrianism, which was the official religion of the Persian Empire and its successors until the territory was conquered by Muslim Arabs in 636 CE. Zoroastrians worship a big god, Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who fights an evil quasi-deity, Angra Mainyu or Ahriman, the Destructive Spirit.

Estimates of Zoroaster's dates vary widely, from being a contemporary of King Cyrus to some centuries earlier. I don't want to get into the question of a "historical Zoroaster".
 
More chronology.

The Upanishads ("sitting down near" for a student to receive some esoteric doctrine from a teacher), some Hindu sacred books, had several authors. When they were composed is uncertain, but likely the first millennium BCE.

Jainism has major reformer Vardhamana, better known as Mahavira ("Great Warrior") (599? - 527? BCE)

Buddhism has founder Siddhartha Gautama, better known as the Buddha ("The Awakened / Enlightened One") (563? - 483? BCE)

Confucianism has founder Kong Qiu, better known as Confucius, Kong Fuzi ("Master Kong"), (551? - 479? BCE)

Taoism has founder Li Er, better known as Lao Tzu, Laozi ("Old Master") (~ 550 BCE)

It must be pointed out that these gentlemen were at least half-legendary. I won't get into the historicity question for them. So these dates are roughly when their belief systems emerged with lots of followers.


The Upanishads are best-known for their doctrine of
Atman == Brahman

Atman = individual soul
Brahman = world soul, a big god
So Brahman has multiple personalities, we are some of Brahman's personalities, and the rest of the Universe is a figment of Brahman's imagination.

This weird doctrine is likely derived from mystical experiences, where Real Reality seems like one big unified entity.


The others depart even further from the Abrahamic religions and Zoroastrianism, which feature worshipping a big god who rules the Universe and who created it.

Jainism and Buddhism both agree that we get repeatedly reincarnated, with all the resulting miseries, and they teach what they consider ways to escape being reincarnated again. They also agree that Mahavira and the Buddha had had several predecessors. Jainism teaches that the Universe is eternal and cyclic, and the Buddha famously compared being concerned with the origin of the Universe to being shot with a poisoned arrow and being unwilling to pull it out unless one learns lots of things about the arrow and its shooter.

Jainism and Buddhism also share with Hinduism the idea of karma ("action"). Doing good things gives you good karma, while doing bad things gives you bad karma. That can affect how you are next reincarnated.

Confucianism is concerned with ethics and society. About theological issues, Confucius considered them a low priority, asking "If you do not know about life, how can you know about death?"

Taoism features the Tao, but it's an impersonal force. "The Tao that can be followed is not the eternal Tao".
 
Doesn't Jainism predate the axial age? Oldest continuous religion in the world, innit?
 
As much respect as I have for Robert Bellah, when it comes to Jaspers' idea, throw me into the "skeptical" category! Periodic revolutions are characteristic of normal religious life, not an exception to it, and you could point several moments in history as remarkable "Ages" with a bit of work, especially when your field of view is 800-1000 years wide...
 
Doesn't Jainism predate the axial age? Oldest continuous religion in the world, innit?
Jainism doesn't, because of when Mahavira lived.

Are you thinking of Hinduism?

I might be? I could have this wrong but I could have sworn that Jainism came first between the two and that Hinduism gradually overtook Jainism.
 
Could it be that the efflorescence of such worldviews are the result of human societies reaching certain levels of complexity and size? And then, I would suspect that when complex societies engage in cultural exchange, such exchange might well encourage more radical, and 'axial', responses to new awareness. Just what is it which sets the thinkers of this hypothesized 'Axial Age' apart from what went before? Surely, the world was not bereft of philosophy entirely? If it is the 'universalism' of the messages, then would it not be the marker of the decline of tribalism?
 
Could it be that the efflorescence of such worldviews are the result of human societies reaching certain levels of complexity and size? And then, I would suspect that when complex societies engage in cultural exchange, such exchange might well encourage more radical, and 'axial', responses to new awareness. Just what is it which sets the thinkers of this hypothesized 'Axial Age' apart from what went before? Surely, the world was not bereft of philosophy entirely? If it is the 'universalism' of the messages, then would it not be the marker of the decline of tribalism?

You know the interesting thing is you see the same 'globalist' phenomenon in ants. Ant colonies have gradually learned to work together and now form giant globe spanning colonies that exist underneath the ocean floor.
 
You know the interesting thing is you see the same 'globalist' phenomenon in ants. Ant colonies have gradually learned to work together and now form giant globe spanning colonies that exist underneath the ocean floor.
Underneath the ocean floor? What gives you that idea?
 
Wealth, specialization, civilization, being freed from the land. Until people have time to ponder their existence, they can not develop meaningful ontologies. Contrast some of these 'civilizational' religions with that practiced by North American natives. Natives didn't have an ontology as such, just certain rituals that were tied to their way of life (rite of passage, hunting) etc.

I'd also suspect that population density has something to do with it. A religion can't really.. spread, so to speak, unless there are people to actually convert to the religion.
 
I do not think it is at all true that pre-urban societies aren't capable of complex ontology; someone who feels this way generally has not talked to an actual real live animist about faith matters. I was chatting with one of my students just yesterday about the sweat lodge ceremony as practiced in his home region (the Pine Ridge Reservation), and the symbolism involved in the setting and actions; I would not describe it as any more or less complex than any Christian or Buddhist liturgy, say, that I am familiar with. And as this symbolism was inherent in the way the area was set up, archaeology can confirm that this is not just Settler "contamination".

Lets take a wider and older example: Shamanism, ie Eliade's "archaic techniques of ecstasy". This phenomenon is similar enough around the world that most believe it to have had a single region of origin; it's not just the ecstatic travel itself, but many characteristics connected to it, both practical and mythological/cosmological. When did these ideas spread, and from where? The where is usually assumed to be ancient Siberia. These ideas are already widespread well before the Axial Age, and indeed are old enough that the paucity of the archaeological record around older materials becomes a problem in trying to answer that question. But spread they did, and among peoples that had few of the markers of "complexity" that Europeans look for, not that in fact the forager life is actually all that simple.
 
Well, I dunno about 'being freed from the land', but I suspect that the production of a surplus sure made a lot of things possible, as well as inviting undue interest from the non-agrarian neighbors.

I think that the tension between settled agrarians and semi-nomadic pastoral peoples has been a continuous thing since a surplus became evident. I don't think that was unique to the period under discussion.

Why is this particular 'age' more significant than the one which spawned Gobekli Tepe and the megalithic cultures ten thousand years before?
 
You know the interesting thing is you see the same 'globalist' phenomenon in ants. Ant colonies have gradually learned to work together and now form giant globe spanning colonies that exist underneath the ocean floor.
Underneath the ocean floor? What gives you that idea?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8127000/8127519.stm

Well how else would these globe spanning colonies make sense?

My guess is that they are portmanteau biota. Those separated by large stretches of water got there by colonization via other carriers, likely human.
 
I do not think it is at all true that pre-urban societies aren't capable of complex ontology; someone who feels this way generally has not talked to an actual real live animist about faith matters. I was chatting with one of my students just yesterday about the sweat lodge ceremony as practiced in his home region (the Pine Ridge Reservation), and the symbolism involved in the setting and actions; I would not describe it as any more or less complex than any Christian or Buddhist liturgy, say, that I am familiar with. And as this symbolism was inherent in the way the area was set up, archaeology can confirm that this is not just Settler "contamination".

Lets take a wider and older example: Shamanism, ie Eliade's "archaic techniques of ecstasy". This phenomenon is similar enough around the world that most believe it to have had a single region of origin; it's not just the ecstatic travel itself, but many characteristics connected to it, both practical and mythological/cosmological. When did these ideas spread, and from where? The where is usually assumed to be ancient Siberia. These ideas are already widespread well before the Axial Age, and indeed are old enough that the paucity of the archaeological record around older materials becomes a problem in trying to answer that question. But spread they did, and among peoples that had few of the markers of "complexity" that Europeans look for, not that in fact the forager life is actually all that simple.

At this point we're parsing definitions: what constitutes 'complex'.

If we're contrasting the thought of North American Natives circa 5000 BC with certain Christian sects circa 400 AD there is no comparison. But 'complexity' isn't so much what I was trying to highlight as much as that the degree of specialization is tightly tied to how much of it the society it lives in can support. And so a wealthier society is more likely to host specialized systems of thought. Consider the legal system of Mesopotamia, or the thought of Greek philosophers, the numerous religious sects in Rome.

Further, these societies act as a culture where these philosophies can grow and spread. So it's likely that many of the systems of thought throughout history that still exist today originated in major global centres (China, Rome, India).
 
I do not think it is at all true that pre-urban societies aren't capable of complex ontology; someone who feels this way generally has not talked to an actual real live animist about faith matters. I was chatting with one of my students just yesterday about the sweat lodge ceremony as practiced in his home region (the Pine Ridge Reservation), and the symbolism involved in the setting and actions; I would not describe it as any more or less complex than any Christian or Buddhist liturgy, say, that I am familiar with. And as this symbolism was inherent in the way the area was set up, archaeology can confirm that this is not just Settler "contamination".

Lets take a wider and older example: Shamanism, ie Eliade's "archaic techniques of ecstasy". This phenomenon is similar enough around the world that most believe it to have had a single region of origin; it's not just the ecstatic travel itself, but many characteristics connected to it, both practical and mythological/cosmological. When did these ideas spread, and from where? The where is usually assumed to be ancient Siberia. These ideas are already widespread well before the Axial Age, and indeed are old enough that the paucity of the archaeological record around older materials becomes a problem in trying to answer that question. But spread they did, and among peoples that had few of the markers of "complexity" that Europeans look for, not that in fact the forager life is actually all that simple.

At this point we're parsing definitions: what constitutes 'complex'.

If we're contrasting the thought of North American Natives circa 5000 BC with certain Christian sects circa 400 AD there is no comparison. But 'complexity' isn't so much what I was trying to highlight as much as that the degree of specialization is tightly tied to how much of it the society it lives in can support. And so a wealthier society is more likely to host specialized systems of thought. Consider the legal system of Mesopotamia, or the thought of Greek philosophers, the numerous religious sects in Rome.

Further, these societies act as a culture where these philosophies can grow and spread. So it's likely that many of the systems of thought throughout history that still exist today originated in major global centres (China, Rome, India).

I would propose consulting Tainter.

Tainter, Joseph A. (2003), The Collapse of Complex Societies, New York & Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-38673-X

IIRC, he includes Mayan and Chacoan cultures in his examples. Complex civilizations presumably built upon the same sacred traditions as other native Americans.

Also, while we're at it, we could use some clarity on the usage of 'ontology' ITT. I come from an 'information science' community, where 'ontology' is fancy titling for metadata development and organization; categorization. "A set of concepts and categories in a subject area or domain that shows their properties and the relations between them." I get the impression that it is being used here in a metaphysical context.
 
Last edited:
You know the interesting thing is you see the same 'globalist' phenomenon in ants. Ant colonies have gradually learned to work together and now form giant globe spanning colonies that exist underneath the ocean floor.
Underneath the ocean floor? What gives you that idea?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8127000/8127519.stm

Well how else would these globe spanning colonies make sense?

Titled link: BBC - Earth News - Ant mega-colony takes over world -- There is another hypothesis that makes more sense than living on the ocean floor. That these ants are hitchhikers in cargo shipments and the like.
 
lpetrich said

Strictly speaking, a science of god(s) is not impossible, but god(s) have been unnecessary hypotheses so far.

Getting close with "Before the Big Bang", "Universe vs Multiverses", and "Nature of Time" discussions.
 
Back
Top Bottom