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What is the true word of God?

DLH

Theoretical Skeptic
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Skeptics often ask believers how they know that the Bible is, in fact, the true and only word of Jehovah God. How do we know it isn't the Dhammapada, the Kojiki, or any other sacred text? It's a valid question, but it can also be applied to skeptics. How do they know these texts aren't divine? The solution is both simple and obvious, yet not commonly practiced: one should read and research. Seek the answer. What one would discover is that the Bible stands out in numerous ways, including its assertions of divine inspiration and historical authenticity.​
 
The same logic applies in reverse. If reading and researching can prove the Bible’s divine origin, then reading and researching other religious texts should, by the same standard, reveal their truth as well. Yet billions of people across history have read their own sacred texts and found them just as divinely inspired.

First of all, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see you here.

It isn't about proving. There is a common misconception that in faith and even in science, proof is vital. There is no such thing in proof in science or faith. Only in math and logic. There is also a misconception that sacred texts and quasi-sacred texts there is always divine inspiration. More often than not there isn't. Originally Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and Taoism didn't have texts that claimed divine inspiration, and arguably Neither did Hinduism. That leaves the Abrahamic. I say arguably because in Hinduism and Scientology belief in a deity is left up to the individual. Even in the Abrahamic, often the individual doesn't believe in a deity but only participates in them for cultural, traditional or other interests.

But still, of the billions of people across history who have read their own preferred texts - the decision is up to them, as it should be. The concept of a one true religion is absurd because there has never been a religion true to even its own teachings. They are always syncretistic. They intermingle and become conflated one with the other.

Every major religious text makes claims of divine origin. The Quran asserts it is the final revelation from God. The Bhagavad Gita presents Krishna as the supreme deity. The Tripitaka records the words of the Buddha as ultimate wisdom. If divine inspiration is measured by internal claims and historical details, then all these texts must be equally valid—or the method itself is flawed.

Muslims seem to think the Quran is divinely inspired, but some time ago, if I recall, in the case of the best online translation I could find the translators didn't agree with its divine inspiration. That may have been an anomaly. Presenting Krishna as the supreme deity doesn't necessarily equate with claims of divine inspiration, but like I said, that, like everything else is arguable and subjective. Religion isn't my primary interest, by the way. Atheists often know more about the subject than me. my primary interest is the Bible, so take this with a grain of salt. I once translated the Quran myself from archaic English to modern with notes on Islamic specific terms and I wouldn't think it made the claim. Buddha allegedly said there is no god and while I can see your point, but I don't think that would be divine inspiration.

The truth is, belief in a sacred text comes down to faith, culture, and personal experience. If historical authenticity alone determined divine truth, then all historically verified texts would be considered sacred. But no one worships Tacitus or Herodotus.

Excellent points, I agree with that.

Reading and researching are essential, but they do not lead to one inevitable conclusion. If they did, all sincere seekers would arrive at the same truth, yet history shows otherwise. Faith is not proof, and claiming the Bible “stands out” is subjective—it depends on who is reading and what they are seeking.

Sure. Thanks for your thoughtful response.
 
You asked a question and I answered it.​

No, you didn't. You pasted a link to someone else's answers.
No offense, but I'm not really interested in your obsession with the Bible.​

None taken, I totally get it and good on you, but then why are you talking about it with me now?
It's obviously mythology to me.​

Well, it is by definition mythology. Myth being "a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon and typically involving supernatural beings or events." and ology being "the study of." Mythology.
I studied it throughout my childhood. Then I studied the holy books of other religions. Some were a lot nicer than the Bible but eventually I realized they were all based on myths.​

The Gospel of Buddha? The Analects? Menciaus? The Tao Te Ching? The Chuang Tzu - yeah, I could see that. Li Ehr? Nihongi and Kojiki. Yeah. The Pirke Avot? I can see some where you would think that, and of them more obvious than others, though some not so much. Maybe you just don't give a shit, you know? If that's the case you don't have to feel empty or guilty about that.
It caused me a lot of emotional stress to think that a supposedly all loving god could be so cruel as Bible god.​

Where in the Bible does it say God is all loving. He hates lots of things. I think maybe you've heard that somewhere else and read it into the Bible? I consider myself very fortunate to have been raised in an unbelieving family.
You think the Bible has a lot truth in it. I do not.​

No offense, but don't tell me what I think.
Actually based on your posts, it's puzzling what you really believe.​


When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Desmond Tutu

The Bible is fallible. The inspired word of Jehovah God is infallible, but the Bible itself is an imperfect translation of that. Thus, if you have a good reference Bible, at Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4, John 7:53-8:11, and 1 John 5:7, it will indicate that these verses did not appear in earlier manuscripts; they are spurious, added later.

The Bible also warns readers to test rather than just believe even the inspired expression (some translations read "spirit") because there are many false teachings or expressions (1 John 4:1-3).

At 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, where the KJV uses the term "a strong delusion," other translations use "working of error" (ASV), "a misleading influence, a working of error" (AMP), and "fooled into believing a lie" (CEV). The question arises: what does this mean?

In a basic sense, it means God will allow them to believe whatever they want, which in this case, was a lie. This was similarly seen with King Ahab at 1 Kings 22:1-38 and 2 Chronicles 18. If one prefers the lie, there is nothing God can do to change that except hold you accountable for it. Note that other translations use the term "judged" rather than "damned" as the KJV does. Also, where most translations, including the KJV, use "found pleasure" in unrighteousness, the Greek literally means "having thought well." This implies that they have given it thought and intellectually strive to reach the conclusion they desire.

This is a fundamental problem with both believers and unbelievers. Believers want to adhere to the traditions of their denomination, while unbelievers often seek the worst possible alternative. What, then, is the meaning of the Bible? What is it really all about? It can be summed up simply as the vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

The tree of the knowledge of good and bad represented, to Adam and Eve, Jehovah God's sovereignty—his right, as our creator, to decide for us what was good and what was bad until we, like children, matured enough to make those decisions within the parameters of that sovereignty. Knowledge here refers to the experience gained. Good and bad were defined by Jehovah and were initially very straightforward: fill the earth and subdue it (good), do not touch or eat from the tree (bad). The knowledge Adam and Eve acquired was the decision to decide for themselves what was good and what was bad, which is why they suddenly considered nudity to be bad (Genesis 2:25; 3:6-11).

The footnote to Genesis 2:17 in the 1966 Jerusalem Bible explains this well: "This knowledge is a privilege which God reserves to himself and which man, by sinning, is to lay hands on, Genesis 3:5, 22. Hence, it does not mean omniscience, which fallen man does not possess; nor is it moral discrimination, for unfallen man already had it and God could not refuse it to a rational being. It is the power of deciding for himself what is good and what is evil and of acting accordingly, a claim to complete moral independence by which man refuses to recognize his status as a created being. The first sin was an attack on God's sovereignty, a sin of pride."

God created Michael first. Then, Michael, as Jehovah's master worker, created everything through Jehovah's Holy Spirit or active force (Proverbs 8:22-31; Colossians 1:15-17; John 8:23; 17:5). The word "Holy" means sacred or belonging to God. "Spirit" refers to an invisible active force, like wind or breath, which, though unseen, produces visible results. Thus, the Holy Spirit is God's active force, invisible to us. The first thing Michael created, through Jehovah's Holy Spirit, was the spiritual heavens, followed by spirit beings or angels (Job 38:4-7). Then came the physical heavens or universe, including Earth, stars, sun, and moon, and finally everything on Earth, culminating with Adam and Eve.

The angels existed for a long time before man was created and had time to mature, learning what was good and bad from their creator (Genesis 1:26; 3:22). Being created perfect is analogous to being born a baby—perfect in potential and innocence but not in capability.

By the time man was created, the angels had likely reached their potential. On the seventh day, when creation was complete, God "rested," not because He was tired but because He set aside a period for humanity to mature, just as the angels had. When this maturity is accomplished, we can, as the Bible says, enter into God's Day of rest. This seventh "day" or period of creation continues to this day. The knowledge of good and bad is the ultimate possession of this maturity, predicated on acknowledging Jehovah's rightful sovereignty (Psalm 95:11; Isaiah 40:28; John 5:17; Romans 8:22; Hebrews 4:1-5).

Once Adam rejected this concept by deciding for himself what was good and bad before maturing, Jehovah had to shorten his life from eternal to mortal. This was necessary because if he and his offspring lived forever under those conditions, they would never achieve maturity, potentially leading to endless chaos and destruction.

Satan, therefore, charged Jehovah with withholding knowledge from mankind, knowing this was untrue but aiming to seize control over Jehovah's sovereignty, even if it meant destroying everything. Like a jealous child breaking a toy so no one else can have it.

However, justice is paramount to Jehovah. You cannot simply dismiss a crime due to its consequences. He allowed Satan's accusations to be tried as in a court, with stipulations that:

1. He would not allow this process to prevent His original purpose for angels and mankind from being fulfilled beyond what was necessary to establish His defense—that they should live forever in peace, in heaven and on earth respectively.
2. Justice would be served.

Immediately after Adam's sin, Jehovah set in motion a plan where:

1. He selected a group of people.
2. Formed a nation for those people.
3. Demonstrated what was happening by establishing a law they could not keep due to their imperfection or immaturity.
4. Provided a way out through a Messiah or Christ, namely Michael, who volunteered out of love for mankind and His father's purpose. Michael came to earth as Jesus the Christ.

From Jehovah's perspective, the life He created is sacred, belonging to Him. According to the Bible, our soul is our life, represented by our blood, hence blood is sacred. To kill someone, or take their soul, requires the payment of the killer's own soul because it is taking something sacred to Jehovah. The blood sacrifices were symbolic of respect for or acknowledgment of this sacred life. For example, if a person was found murdered and the killer was unknown, they had to sacrifice a bull, spilling its blood on the ground as a symbolic acknowledgment of God's possession of sacred life, a gesture of justice (Deuteronomy 21:1-9).

Since we inherited sin through Adam, only the blood of a sinless man could pay the price for Adam's sin, which had been perfect until he sinned.

Sure, there are some good morality lessons in parts of it, but most of them are human universals found in all known cultures going back long before the Bible was put together. Anyway, that's probably all I have to say.​

Well, I don't agree with a lot of it but I do appreciate hearing from other people with differing beliefs.​
 
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The same logic applies in reverse. If reading and researching can prove the Bible’s divine origin, then reading and researching other religious texts should, by the same standard, reveal their truth as well. Yet billions of people across history have read their own sacred texts and found them just as divinely inspired.

First of all, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see you here.

It isn't about proving. There is a common misconception that in faith and even in science, proof is vital. There is no such thing in proof in science or faith. Only in math and logic. There is also a misconception that sacred texts and quasi-sacred texts there is always divine inspiration. More often than not there isn't. Originally Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and Taoism didn't have texts that claimed divine inspiration, and arguably Neither did Hinduism. That leaves the Abrahamic. I say arguably because in Hinduism and Scientology belief in a deity is left up to the individual. Even in the Abrahamic, often the individual doesn't believe in a deity but only participates in them for cultural, traditional or other interests.

But still, of the billions of people across history who have read their own preferred texts - the decision is up to them, as it should be. The concept of a one true religion is absurd because there has never been a religion true to even its own teachings. They are always syncretistic. They intermingle and become conflated one with the other.

Every major religious text makes claims of divine origin. The Quran asserts it is the final revelation from God. The Bhagavad Gita presents Krishna as the supreme deity. The Tripitaka records the words of the Buddha as ultimate wisdom. If divine inspiration is measured by internal claims and historical details, then all these texts must be equally valid—or the method itself is flawed.

Muslims seem to think the Quran is divinely inspired, but some time ago, if I recall, in the case of the best online translation I could find the translators didn't agree with its divine inspiration. That may have been an anomaly. Presenting Krishna as the supreme deity doesn't necessarily equate with claims of divine inspiration, but like I said, that, like everything else is arguable and subjective. Religion isn't my primary interest, by the way. Atheists often know more about the subject than me. my primary interest is the Bible, so take this with a grain of salt. I once translated the Quran myself from archaic English to modern with notes on Islamic specific terms and I wouldn't think it made the claim. Buddha allegedly said there is no god and while I can see your point, but I don't think that would be divine inspiration.

The truth is, belief in a sacred text comes down to faith, culture, and personal experience. If historical authenticity alone determined divine truth, then all historically verified texts would be considered sacred. But no one worships Tacitus or Herodotus.

Excellent points, I agree with that.

Reading and researching are essential, but they do not lead to one inevitable conclusion. If they did, all sincere seekers would arrive at the same truth, yet history shows otherwise. Faith is not proof, and claiming the Bible “stands out” is subjective—it depends on who is reading and what they are seeking.

Sure. Thanks for your thoughtful response.
Your argument is built on a series of logical errors, misconceptions, and contradictions. You claim that proof exists only in mathematics and logic, yet this is an example of a false equivalence fallacy—conflating proof in formal logic with the overwhelming evidence that supports scientific and historical knowledge. Science does not deal in absolute proof in the mathematical sense, but it provides rigorous, evidence-based conclusions that allow us to predict and manipulate reality with extraordinary precision. If proof did not exist in science, technology would not function, vaccines would not be effective, and spacecraft could not navigate the solar system with pinpoint accuracy. Saying “science has no proof” is akin to saying engineering is a matter of faith—this non sequitur collapses under scrutiny.

Your assertion that divine inspiration is rare among religions is a hasty generalization fallacy. You cherry-pick religions like Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism—traditions that do not emphasize divine revelation—while ignoring the fact that many of the world’s major religions, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism, explicitly claim divine inspiration for their sacred texts. The Vedas are considered Śruti (revealed knowledge), the Quran is regarded as the literal word of God, and the Bible states its divine origin in multiple passages, such as 2 Timothy 3:16. The presence of some non-theistic traditions does not negate the widespread claim of divine revelation in the world’s major faiths.

Your argument that all religions are syncretic and therefore none can be true commits a non sequitur fallacy—the conclusion does not logically follow from the premise. The fact that religions influence one another does not mean that they are all equally false or lack objective truth. Mathematics has also evolved through cultural borrowing, yet no one argues that because algebra came from the Arabs and calculus from Newton and Leibniz, mathematics itself is invalid. Development and adaptation do not negate truth; they merely show that human understanding refines itself over time.

Furthermore, you contradict yourself by saying that religion is not your primary interest while admitting that you translated the Quran yourself. This is a self-contradiction—one cannot claim indifference while engaging in a highly specialized religious study. You also state that atheists often know more about religion than you do, yet you position yourself as a commentator on the subject. If you acknowledge that others know more than you, then why assert conclusions about religious inspiration, proof, and historical validity? This selective skepticism exposes the special pleading fallacy, where you impose different standards of evidence depending on whether they support your argument.

Your argument that no religion has been “true to its own teachings” and therefore no religion can be true is a category error. Religions do not claim that their followers will always perfectly adhere to their doctrines; they claim to offer divine truth. The existence of hypocrisy, doctrinal evolution, or human misinterpretation does not invalidate a religion’s fundamental claims any more than mathematical errors invalidate mathematics. A mathematical equation remains true even if misunderstood. Likewise, religious deviations do not disprove the possibility of absolute religious truth.

Additionally, you commit a red herring fallacy by mentioning that some Quran translators did not personally believe in its divine inspiration. This is irrelevant to whether the Quran itself claims divine origin. The fact that individuals hold differing opinions does not change what the text states. If disagreement alone invalidated truth, then no historical or scientific fact would stand, since scholars frequently debate interpretations in all fields.

Your argument is riddled with logical fallacies—false equivalences, non sequiturs, hasty generalizations, self-contradictions, red herrings, and special pleading. Science provides demonstrable knowledge, religious texts do claim divine inspiration, and syncretism does not negate truth. The possibility of one true religion remains entirely coherent. Therefore, your position is not just refutable—it is fundamentally flawed.

NHC
 
There's something deeply ironic about dissing on syncretism in a thread about the Word of God, the Λόγος τοῦ Θεοῦ - a philosophical concept that Christians blatantly "borrowed" from Platonism in the earliest days of their very syncretic faith. If Christianity wasn't syncretic, they'd all still be Jews.
 
Skeptics often ask believers how they know that the Bible is, in fact, the true and only word of Jehovah God. How do we know it isn't the Dhammapada, the Kojiki, or any other sacred text? It's a valid question, but it can also be applied to skeptics. How do they know these texts aren't divine? The solution is both simple and obvious, yet not commonly practiced: one should read and research. Seek the answer. What one would discover is that the Bible stands out in numerous ways, including its assertions of divine inspiration and historical authenticity.​
What you wrote about the Bible makes me laugh - because all I see is a King, Dictator
Ancient people living under Kings, Dictators envisioned an afterworld that was similar to the life they had back then
A King, Dictator like Putin "God" sits on his THRONE, Heaven is his KINGDOM & only those who profess to blindly believe,
Support, submit, beg, obey & sing his praises are allowed in, the rest, the vast majority of humanity - entire families, women,
children, even babies to be callously dumped into Hell!
For the vast majority of humanity it will be like being Jews in a Nazi afterworld!
"Divine Inspiration" indeed!
.
Take the Terminology - "Commandments, Submit(Islam means submission), beg, obey, judge, wrath, punish, forgive, Fear" - ALL
Slave/Servant words!
But that was life back then - these were not democracies - one must obey the King, Dictator or else!
Like living in Russia or North Korea today!
And so these simple innocent people created God and religions that fit their way of life back then
What is shocking is to understand that WE, the so-called far more educated, intelligent, armed with far more knowledge,
blindly follow their views of God!
 
There's something deeply ironic about dissing on syncretism in a thread about the Word of God, the Λόγος τοῦ Θεοῦ - a philosophical concept that Christians blatantly "borrowed" from Platonism in the earliest days of their very syncretic faith. If Christianity wasn't syncretic, they'd all still be Jews.

They were still Jews.
 
There's something deeply ironic about dissing on syncretism in a thread about the Word of God, the Λόγος τοῦ Θεοῦ - a philosophical concept that Christians blatantly "borrowed" from Platonism in the earliest days of their very syncretic faith. If Christianity wasn't syncretic, they'd all still be Jews.

They were still Jews.
Very few Christians now consider themselves Jewish, and those that do, you know what they do? Rather tellingly? They scrub the faith of all the Greek influenced stuff....
 
There's something deeply ironic about dissing on syncretism in a thread about the Word of God, the Λόγος τοῦ Θεοῦ - a philosophical concept that Christians blatantly "borrowed" from Platonism in the earliest days of their very syncretic faith. If Christianity wasn't syncretic, they'd all still be Jews.

They were still Jews.
Very few Christians now consider themselves Jewish, and those that do, you know what they do? Rather tellingly? They scrub the faith of all the Greek influenced stuff....
Christianity is similar to Islam - A Master/Slave religion
Get down on our knees, beg, grovel, blindly obey and be rewarded
The goal is the reward - Heaven - the easy lazy life - pleasures of the flesh
.
Judaism esp the Reform Judaism is a Teacher/Student faith - similar to Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism
The tell is the multiplicity of prophets or Teachers
A slave may serve only One Master but in life we have many a Teacher
Many Prophets/Teachers in Judaism, Sikhism
The many Gods in Hinduism are our Teachers - God Krishna openly tells us - "I will only advice, instruct but I will not interfere
The fight is yours, you must fight the good fight"
Buddhism fails in this regard but clearly the Buddha was a Teacher
He clearly states, "Do not follow me, follow my teachings"
.
Whereas in a Master/Slave religion one must follow the Master - Morals, values are unimportant
"Good works won't get you into Heaven"
One must believe, obey, submit to the Master & only then is he pleased
.
How does one please a Teacher? Thru Works - something Reform Judaism stresses
Make the Teacher go, "That's my Boy/Girl!" with Pride!
That is the goal
Very different religions
 
Very few Christians now consider themselves Jewish, and those that do, you know what they do? Rather tellingly? They scrub the faith of all the Greek influenced stuff....

Well, for sure. Pentecost 33 CE signified God's favor switching from the Jews, who rejected the Messiah, to the Christians. The first Christians were Jews. 3 years later (36 CE) that was extended to the gentiles. First with Cornelius and his family. The Jews had been corrupted by various pagan influences, especially after Alexander in 32 BCE and then the same for the Christians with Constantine in 325 CE.
 
Very few Christians now consider themselves Jewish, and those that do, you know what they do? Rather tellingly? They scrub the faith of all the Greek influenced stuff....

Well, for sure. Pentecost 33 CE signified God's favor switching from the Jews, who rejected the Messiah, to the Christians. The first Christians were Jews. 3 years later (36 CE) that was extended to the gentiles. First with Cornelius and his family. The Jews had been corrupted by various pagan influences, especially after Alexander in 32 BCE and then the same for the Christians with Constantine in 325 CE.
Well, all I can say is y'all sure aren't embarassed to "add to scripture" when you think it will justify some form of bigotry or other! Acts says nothing about God's favor "switching" between religions at Pentecost. If anything, Pentecost looks more like an open invitation to widen the gate of those allowed into the Kingdom of God, not kick anyone out of it. Let alone on the basis of supposed impurity. I think Jesus would be embarassed by all this fascist nonsense, by all accounts he took people as they came regardless of background. Do you never actually read the book you cram down everyone's throat? You do not give the impression of being very familiar with its contents for one who has supposedly studied it for so long, if you don't know basic facts like what did or did not occur in one of its principal historical books. And how can you Witness to that you do not understand? You are unprepared for your labors.
 
Sir, I'm sorry I said I think we should ignore you.

Awww. That's so sweet of you.

That was wrong of me.

Was it? Why did you do it? Because I'm not an alleged Holocaust denier, or because someone given that charge shouldn't be ignored?

But you actually remind me of myself, nearly twenty years ago, right after I joined. I came as an atheist, sober minded, serious. After my marriage fell apart I began to drink again, and used certain mind altering drugs to feel better. Fast forward, I was eventually diagnosed with depression, severe anxiety, and personality disorders, namely bi-polar.

Anyway, during periods of chemically induced derangement, I began to have religious mania. I devoured Spinoza, felt I had been selected by God personally, ultimately thought I was a Christian, then went so whacky I remember believing I was some sort of messianic figure. It's all documented here, and on the archive site.

I am not saying I believe you are deranged or using chemicals, or are mentally ill.

Wait a minute - I better write this down. Not a Holocaust denier, deranged, using chemicals or mentally ill. Got it. Thanks. And you? See bold in your quote above.

But you do seem to be on a mission. Your threads look impressive, your site is impressive, at least visually.

Do you feel bullet proof? That you have been chosen to do a task of some kind, an important thing?

Bullet proof? Except for my ear? Important task?

You a gamer? Me neither but I love a few old Play Station games. Grand Theft Auto and God of War. I've mentioned those before. There's this scene in the video game God of War II where our intrepid hero, not unlike our current leader, the great orange one, was stripped of all of his power - like an avatar - and limps pathetically before the watchful eye of all of his soldiers. It makes you feel for the guy, you know? To see him lose all he had worked for.

Oxford: avatar - a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher; an incarnation, embodiment, or manifestation of a person or idea: an icon or figure representing a particular person in video games, internet forums, etc.:

Imagine someone in the creative portion of video game manufacturing created this God, which the player used in a figurative sense to more or less go on all sorts of missions - important things - playing God, if you will, sees the hero, in a figurative sense himself, stripped of his avatar. Humiliated, defeated. Under the watchful eye of who? The game manufacturer, the audience, the consumer?

What is the difference between CARM and IIDB? You aren't there?

Democracy. Dumcrazy.

Another scene in another God of War game. Kratos is on a fool's errand. Again. Never, never learn. Never, never change. Kratos the fool among mortals and gods! Forever, ever cursed, forever, ever doomed. Consumed by vengeance to his last breath. The Spartan lights the way to dusty death.



Vengeance, WAB, belongs to God.
 
DLH was set on his life path by Yahweh when he was born to be on this forum to do battle with atheists in the name of god almighty. A man on a holy mission, a holy warrior in the service of a god.

Like the Jesuits and the Knights Templar, stamping out the irreligious infidels.
 
DLH was set on his life path by Yahweh when he was born to be on this forum to do battle with atheists in the name of god almighty. A man on a holy mission, a holy warrior in the service of a god.

Like the Jesuits and the Knights Templar, stamping out the irreligious infidels.

I realize you were talking about things we don't perceive, but I don't think we perceive the spiritual aspect of our universe the same. It's like kung fu. It's everything.



The Pharisees criticized Jesus and his disciples for not washing their hands before eating. The Hebrew idea of a hand was what we would call the hand and wrist. From the tips of the fingers to just above the wrist. The law of Moses instructed to wash the "hand" before eating, which Jesus and his disciples did, but the Pharisees, in self-righteousness which they had such a proclivity for, extended this up to past the elbows. That way, they reasoned, you were sure to do it right. A modern-day skeptic, not knowing any better, will say Jesus sinned.

Just as the modern-day believer will think that since Jesus said to turn the other cheek, he was teaching passivism. But what he was really commenting on was a custom among the Jews at that time, to slap the face of anyone who in the slightest manner, insulted them. He was really saying not to be provoked by trivial conflict.

There is a type of manuscript that was read in the temple. These are notoriously inaccurate manuscripts. The scholars used accurate scrolls but, in the temple, the inaccurate ones were kept and read. From a strictly academic sense these are useless, but in a cultural sense they are invaluable because they contain notes and addendums which give a great deal of insight into what the people did, as opposed to just thought.

I once saw a documentary on one of the world's leading ichthyologists who had been trained and practiced for years in his field. He went to the Amazon to live with the primitive people there. They were fishermen. He learned more in a year there than he ever had as a scientist. I learned more about the Bible, religion, God, myself and even people arguing with atheists than I did in years of intense Biblical and theological study.

Today the solar day is divided into two periods of 12 hours each. Anti and post meridian. The ancient Hebrews had a much different perspective. Though their day went from sunset to sunset they still referred to the morning as the beginning of the day, meaning daylight hours and night as the ending of that same period. They also broke up the day into more parts than we do. Day and night were only a fourth of a day to them. So, the word translated as day, like I said, is used various ways like ours is used meaning from a few hours to time indefinite. Including but not limited to the 24-hour period.

Skeptics have such a hard time with this, even though the English word day is used exactly in the same way, because tradition holds that the universe was created in six literal days. It wasn't. This can be established through several ways, including the comparison I used. In my day we worked the day shift 6 days a week. There day is used to describe a few hours (daylight) many years (my day) and the solar day of 24 hours. (See Genesis Chapter 1)

It is also evident by the fact that the scripture (you so diligently neglected) says God created the universe in 6 days (periods of indeterminant time) but it also says 1 day (as a whole period) AND it also says that the 7th day began immediately after Adam and Eve were created and continues, according to David and hundreds of years later Paul, in their day. The seventh day of creation continues to this day. Add to this the fact that it also uses day in the manner I've suggested for various periods of time. If I say Adam's day, I don't mean Adam lived 24 hours.

God said in that day Adam would die. Sin equals death. Dying takes a long time.
Hollyweird's depiction of "The Dark Ages" really isn't a very accurate one. The dark ages were really a criticism of the unavailability of literature. Under the influence of Hollyweird we see the dark ages more like Monty Python's Holy Grail. "Bring out your dead." If you lived in the dark ages, we reason, you probably didn't live past 40. No, if you lived to be 90 and had two siblings that died you had the life expectancy of 40. Even if you were 90.

The Europeans lived in filth. But like the hippies in the 1960s and the woke crowd of today it was only a small pocket of the world at large. A distraction. White noise. Normal life goes on all around it. The Europeans lived with domestic animals who shat in their water and slept in their homes. They eventually became immune. T and B - the memory cells. When they went to the Americas, they decimated the population who had a different culture. Not so many domestic animals. They were hunters. So, as I mentioned in another post, "science" thinks David was wrong when he wrote in Psalms that the life expectancy was 70 or 80 years. They assumed the dark ages were bad so David's time had to be worse.

But science really doesn't say that. People say that in the name of science. Science makes you smart, religion makes you dumb. Best side with science. Except science becomes just another ideology like religion.

So, your senses may be the only way you can examine but there are aspects of your surroundings that your senses can't detect and examine. Your senses could act as a blinder. That's how I look at believers and unbelievers. They, as Agent K said, think they have a good bead on things.



Professor F. F. Bruce:
“For Cæsar’s Gallic War (composed between 58 and 50 B.C.) there are several extant MSS, but only nine or ten are good, and the oldest is some 900 years later than Cæsar’s day.

“Of the 142 books of the Roman history of Livy (59 B.C.-A.D. 17), only 35 survive; these are known to us from not more than twenty MSS of any consequence, only one of which, and that containing fragments of Books III-VI, is as old as the fourth century.

“Of the fourteen books of the Histories of Tacitus (c. A.D. 100) only four and a half survive; of the sixteen books of his Annals, ten survive in full and two in part. The text of these extant portions of his two great historical works depends entirely on two MSS, one of the ninth century and one of the eleventh. . . .

“The History of Thucydides (c. 460-400 B.C.) is known to us from eight MSS, the earliest belonging to c. A.D. 900, and a few papyrus scraps, belonging to about the beginning of the Christian era.

“The same is true of the History of Herodotus (c. 488-428 B.C.). Yet no classical scholar would listen to an argument that the authenticity of Herodotus or Thucydides is in doubt because the earliest MSS of their works which are of any use to us are over 1,300 years later than the originals.”—The Books and the Parchments, page 180.
 
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