Venezuela's president admits economy has failed

[Loren Pechtel]

Freedom fighters attack enemy military/government. Terrorists attack enemy civilians.

So you admit you were wrong?

Huh? I was showing the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

And Iran is backing them because of the ancient Sunni/Shia conflict.

 

[untermensche]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

 

[Trausti]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

Which is why socialism in Venezuela has failed.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Freedom fighters attack enemy military/government. Terrorists attack enemy civilians.

So you admit you were wrong?

Huh? I was showing the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

And Iran is backing them because of the ancient Sunni/Shia conflict.

What? You failed to do that you mean?

Iran and the Houthi's are theologically on opposite sides.

The Houthis are Zaidayya. Its neither Shia nor Sunni. They are closer to Shia Islam in teaching. If we follow the logic of historical theological divides they should hate the Shias more. Which is accurate.

Iran supporting the Houthis makes no theological sense. Because the choice isn't guided by religion.

If religion is a factor Qatar should be helping the Saudis against the Houthis.

I fail to see how religion is at all a factor in this war. I think it's a red herring. It's all about power

 

[Derec]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

You sound like Stan/Loretta.

Always harping on "oppression".

 

[untermensche]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

Which is why socialism in Venezuela has failed.

Talk about an insane non sequitur.

Venezuela has been a capitalist nation for a long time.

It is still a capitalist nation.

What has failed in Venezuela is an attempt to make capitalism a decent system that takes care of all the citizens.

That seems to be impossible.

 

[untermensche]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

You sound like Stan/Loretta.

Oppression is when some foreign power does not allow you to have an airport, or an open water port.

Oppression is when some foreign power sends troops into your lands continually at will.

Oppression is when some foreign power steals your lands, throws your people off their lands and kills anyone that tries to stop them.

To not see the constant oppression of the Palestinians is a special kind of blindness.

One must usually have a brain injury or be an American to have it.

 

[angelo]

A freedom fighter and muslim/Islam are not compatible. Could you name one Islamic freedom fighter? Just one will do!

Saladin?

Sounds no different to any other Islamic warlord to me! You call that a " freedom fighter?"

 

[angelo]

Supporters of oppression always want to limit the options of the oppressed.

If you oppress you bring violence upon yourself and the civilians around you.

The oppression is the root cause of the whole problem.

Which is why socialism in Venezuela has failed.

Talk about an insane non sequitur.

Venezuela has been a capitalist nation for a long time.

It is still a capitalist nation.

What has failed in Venezuela is an attempt to make capitalism a decent system that takes care of all the citizens.

That seems to be impossible.

By the socialist government of Chavez taking over all private local as well as multinational corporations? Do you even know the meaning of socialism and the difference between it and private equity?

 

[untermensche]

Talk about an insane non sequitur.

Venezuela has been a capitalist nation for a long time.

It is still a capitalist nation.

What has failed in Venezuela is an attempt to make capitalism a decent system that takes care of all the citizens.

That seems to be impossible.

By the socialist government of Chavez taking over all private local as well as multinational corporations? Do you even know the meaning of socialism and the difference between it and private equity?

You are living in a dream world.

Venezuela did nationalize a handful of businesses. Some oil businesses and some businesses dealing with food production and other things. But it did not take anything. It paid for what it nationalized.

But the majority of businesses in Venezuela are individually owned, still today.

It is a regulated capitalist economy.

That has failed.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

They nationalized all the biggest businesses. They didn't bother to nationalize the mom-and-pops. You even endorsed the ides of businesses of that small size without employees to exploit, but suddenly they count as capitalism.

Does that mean you endorsed capitalism?

 

[untermensche]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Chavez was a crook and a cleptocrat who justified his power grabs with that he through some bones to the poor.

You really need to see the cracks in his Gloria

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Talk about an insane non sequitur.

Venezuela has been a capitalist nation for a long time.

It is still a capitalist nation.

What has failed in Venezuela is an attempt to make capitalism a decent system that takes care of all the citizens.

That seems to be impossible.

By the socialist government of Chavez taking over all private local as well as multinational corporations? Do you even know the meaning of socialism and the difference between it and private equity?

You are living in a dream world.

Venezuela did nationalize a handful of businesses. Some oil businesses and some businesses dealing with food production and other things. But it did not take anything. It paid for what it nationalized.

But the majority of businesses in Venezuela are individually owned, still today.

It is a regulated capitalist economy.

That has failed.

The nationalized a lot of big businesses. They couldn't comply with his impossible demands, he nationalized, they still couldn't comply. The total number isn't that important because the damage was done by taking out the big ones. A bunch of small ones still in private hands isn't enough to keep the market working.

- - - Updated - - -

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Reality prevented it. Nationalizing a business doesn't make 2 + 2 = 5.

 

[Axulus]

You are living in a dream world.

Venezuela did nationalize a handful of businesses. Some oil businesses and some businesses dealing with food production and other things. But it did not take anything. It paid for what it nationalized.

But the majority of businesses in Venezuela are individually owned, still today.

It is a regulated capitalist economy.

That has failed.

The nationalized a lot of big businesses. They couldn't comply with his impossible demands, he nationalized, they still couldn't comply. The total number isn't that important because the damage was done by taking out the big ones. A bunch of small ones still in private hands isn't enough to keep the market working.

- - - Updated - - -

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

Reality prevented it. Nationalizing a business doesn't make 2 + 2 = 5.

Beyond the nationalizations, Venezuela prevented the Mom and Pops from importing necessary goods to keep their businesses functioning (via currency controls) and also forced many of them to set prices below cost, resulting in decimation of that part of the economy as well.

 

[untermensche]

So we all admit there were many privately owned businesses, many moms and pops too.

Capitalism.

Nationalization of resources is called fairness, not socialism.

Socialism is nationalization of everything.

Some people actually believe that is what happened in Venezuela.

A few things were nationalized.

Like food production so more than the rich could eat.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So we all admit there were many privately owned businesses, many moms and pops too.

Capitalism.

Nationalization of resources is called fairness, not socialism.

Socialism is nationalization of everything.

Some people actually believe that is what happened in Venezuela.

A few things were nationalized.

Like food production so more than the rich could eat.

Sure there were plenty of mom & pop businesses--they simply weren't big enough to keep the country working.

 

[untermensche]

So we all admit there were many privately owned businesses, many moms and pops too.

Capitalism.

Nationalization of resources is called fairness, not socialism.

Socialism is nationalization of everything.

Some people actually believe that is what happened in Venezuela.

A few things were nationalized.

Like food production so more than the rich could eat.

Sure there were plenty of mom & pop businesses--they simply weren't big enough to keep the country working.

How many are there and how many does it take to keep the country working?

 

[angelo]

That is muddled nonsense.

The capitalists in Venezuela didn't by magic disappear because natural resources were nationalized as they should be.

What Chavez did was try to make a capitalist nation responsive to the needs of all citizens.

But capitalists resisted that and did everything they could to prevent it.

What Chavez and most other socialist ideologies like the Soviet Union did, or tried to do, was reward the bums and freeloaders by taking wealth away from those who actually got off their arses worked their butts off, or risked everything to get to where they were living comfortable lives by sheer hard work and distribute it so all could live in equal poverty.

 

[untermensche]

The biggest theft is capitalist theft from workers.

It is a system specifically set up to steal from workers. Thus the need for top down rigid dictatorships.

Over the last decades corporate profits have soared. Executive salaries and perks have increased incredibly. And in no connection to performance.

But workers have stagnated and declined.

A few have done very well by stealing from others.