Venezuela's president admits economy has failed

[angelo]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

The American economy is doing just fine since Trump took over a lackluster one under Obama.

 

[untermensche]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

 

[angelo]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

Obama had eight years at the helm. Apart from some good speeches he delivered little else. The economy stagnated!

 

[ZiprHead]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

Obama had eight years at the helm. Apart from some good speeches he delivered little else. The economy stagnated!

 

[untermensche]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

Obama had eight years at the helm. Apart from some good speeches he delivered little else. The economy stagnated!

He inherited a total disaster and got the economy moving again.

Trump is in the process of wrecking it again.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

Obama had eight years at the helm. Apart from some good speeches he delivered little else. The economy stagnated!

It typically takes 15 to 30 years before an economic reform shows up in the numbers. Reagan laid the foundation for the 2008 mess.

There's also a hell of a lot of random. The recovery after 2008 was to a large extent due to the fracking boom, and cheap oil. That's thanks to no politician. The economic boom under Clinton had to do with the Internet, and only Internet. He had absolutely nothing to do with that. Yet, gets the credit.

 

[dismal]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

 

[untermensche]

Yes Reagan started it but both Clinton and Bush the lesser put gasoline on the fire.

Clinton oversaw a bubble false expansion just like GW.

Trump giving away as much as he can to the rich will create a false bubble economy as well.

But you can only go to that well so many times.

 

[untermensche]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

No collapse under Chavez.

Totally different policies in action.

Maybe the words were close.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

Raising tariff's to "protect" the economy is mercantilism. That's the stuff that Adam Smith was arguing against in his Wealth of Nations. Today we know that if somebody has tariffs and we don't, we're still better off than if we'd also have tariffs. The only country we are hurting with tariffs is our own. We have known it's dumb for hundreds of years now. That's a long time. I was about to say that Trump is a moron. But that's not really news, is it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

The American economy is doing just fine since Trump took over a lackluster one under Obama.

Trump got elected in 2016. He became president in January 2017. But the 2017 was an Obama budget year. Fiscal year starts in OctobeObama inherited, not an economy, but a smoking crater. Which he managed to dig us out from the Bush/GOP era failed economy. The economy so far has only had 11 months of Trump budget. Which is going to raise deficits to the $1 trillion dollar a year level, and he has started a trade war that nobody knows where it will lead to. Giving Trump credit for anything is simply wrong. We got this good economy in great part due to Obama. Who worked hard to fill the smoking crater Bush left us with little help from the useless GOP. Who gives us disasters like Kansas and Louisiana et al.

In the last two years of Obama's presidency, we had a pretty good economy. Trump get no credit for any of that. The stupid bastard is now claiming we will see GNP growth of 8% -9%. So we need not worry about his massive deficits. No competent economists will agree that Trump's stupid policies will do that. Just remember that when it all starts to drag us down to Bush level badness again.

 

[dismal]

If they stop doing those things many of their problems will instantly go away.

Instantly? I guess you think that if Trump gets Kim Jong Un to step down, North Korea would instantly be just like South Korea but with more statues?

Some things can happen instantly. 1,000,000% Inflation can be ended instantly. You just stop printing money. If you can't credibly do that, an option is to dollarize. It's unofficially and illegally happening already, by this account:

The warping effects of bogus exchange rates can also be ended instantly. Just float the exchange rate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9b7348cd87d_story.html?utm_term=.09fdfd737c65

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Venezuela used to have industries like "farming" and "cement" and "beer brewing". Not so much anymore. As the predictable result of deliberate policy changes made by the Chavez/Maduro regime. The things that happened are exactly what the economic texts predict will happen when you fix prices too low, set exchange rates unrealistically, threaten and carry out nationalizations, and print craptons of currency to pay for things you can't produce enough to afford. It's bizarre to me that people cite dependence on oil as the problem when they pretty much destroyed the productive capacity of everything. Including oil.

Could you please teach these 'lessons learned' to the current president of the US because he is dangerously close to doing the same thing.

aa

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

"Having done" /= "Close to doing"

He is a proponent for policies that are going to cause massive trade imbalances while simultaneously increasing our debt. Inflation is coming and we already have a monopoly on foreign exchange (albeit temporary for now).

So if you are saying that 'were Trump a dictator like Chavez, we'd already be Venezuela' - I'd agree.
If you are saying that 'however, because we are a democracy we won't end up like Venezuela because congress can check the president's more stupid policies' - I'd say that's optimistic under the current congress.
If you are saying that 'Trump would never go down this path to where we end up like Venezuela because he's too clever' - I'd say that's delusion.

aa

 

[dismal]

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

"Having done" /= "Close to doing"

He is a proponent for policies that are going to cause massive trade imbalances while simultaneously increasing our debt. Inflation is coming and we already have a monopoly on foreign exchange (albeit temporary for now).

So if you are saying that 'were Trump a dictator like Chavez, we'd already be Venezuela' - I'd agree.
If you are saying that 'however, because we are a democracy we won't end up like Venezuela because congress can check the president's more stupid policies' - I'd say that's optimistic under the current congress.
If you are saying that 'Trump would never go down this path to where we end up like Venezuela because he's too clever' - I'd say that's delusion.

aa

He is not close to, nor even talking about, doing anything like:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

And I have noted even when tariffs are being discussed his people will say things like "we believe in free trade, these tariffs are intended to address the unfair trade practices of our trading partners."

 

[angelo]

The US economy does not shift in one year.

It shifts slowly.

What Trump has done to the economy has yet to be seen.

And throwing money out to the rich and calling it "the economy" is an old trick.

The people are suffering more but the economy is great.

Because there is no connection between the two ideas.

Obama had eight years at the helm. Apart from some good speeches he delivered little else. The economy stagnated!

It typically takes 15 to 30 years before an economic reform shows up in the numbers. Reagan laid the foundation for the 2008 mess.

There's also a hell of a lot of random. The recovery after 2008 was to a large extent due to the fracking boom, and cheap oil. That's thanks to no politician. The economic boom under Clinton had to do with the Internet, and only Internet. He had absolutely nothing to do with that. Yet, gets the credit.

My apologies, but I thought Al Gore was responsible for the internet!

 

[angelo]

I can't recall Trump having done any of these things:

Don't nationalize various industry sectors, don't appropriate hundreds of businesses, don't send troops into the street to control prices, don't fix prices on various goods, and don't impose a monopoly on foreign exchange.

Also, stop printing so much money.

He has tried to raise tariffs, which I agree won't help our standard of living, but that's a far cry from the policies that destroyed a nation's productive capacity unleashed by Chavez/Maduro.

"Having done" /= "Close to doing"

He is a proponent for policies that are going to cause massive trade imbalances while simultaneously increasing our debt. Inflation is coming and we already have a monopoly on foreign exchange (albeit temporary for now).

So if you are saying that 'were Trump a dictator like Chavez, we'd already be Venezuela' - I'd agree.
If you are saying that 'however, because we are a democracy we won't end up like Venezuela because congress can check the president's more stupid policies' - I'd say that's optimistic under the current congress.
If you are saying that 'Trump would never go down this path to where we end up like Venezuela because he's too clever' - I'd say that's delusion.

aa

Yet unemployment is at it's lowest level since 2000. Lowering corporate taxes has already produced results in some companies remaining in America instead of setting up in lower taxing overseas countries thereby employing more Americans. All this because of Trump's policies. Actions where Obama delivered nothing but empty promises. Not to mention the ultimate betrayal of America of all time in apologizing to little more than terrorist for perceived mistaken American past policies. Bowing to the mullahs of these rogue states was the ultimate cringe worthy act of any American president in history.

 

[untermensche]

If they stop doing those things many of their problems will instantly go away.

Instantly? I guess you think that if Trump gets Kim Jong Un to step down, North Korea would instantly be just like South Korea but with more statues?

Some things can happen instantly. 1,000,000% Inflation can be ended instantly. You just stop printing money. If you can't credibly do that, an option is to dollarize. It's unofficially and illegally happening already, by this account:

The warping effects of bogus exchange rates can also be ended instantly. Just float the exchange rate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9b7348cd87d_story.html?utm_term=.09fdfd737c65

Armchair jockeys.

They can fix anything except those capitalist shitholes all over the place where millions suffer from malnutrition.

The system in the US runs because it is a tree with many roots. It is hard to kill entirely.

Nobody really understands it.

It can collapse moments after the so-called experts talk about how secured it is.

I've seen it several times.

It runs in spite of what the insane on the right say about the economy and human nature.

The insane on the right are the last to recognize a bubble.

They are living on another planet.

 

[ZiprHead]

Some things can happen instantly. 1,000,000% Inflation can be ended instantly. You just stop printing money. If you can't credibly do that, an option is to dollarize. It's unofficially and illegally happening already, by this account:

The warping effects of bogus exchange rates can also be ended instantly. Just float the exchange rate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9b7348cd87d_story.html?utm_term=.09fdfd737c65

Armchair jockeys.

They can fix anything except those capitalist shitholes all over the place where millions suffer from malnutrition.

The system in the US runs because it is a tree with many roots. It is hard to kill entirely.

Nobody really understands it.

It can collapse moments after the so-called experts talk about how secured it is.

I've seen it several times.

It runs in spite of what the insane on the right say about the economy and human nature.

The insane on the right are the last to recognize a bubble.

They are living on another planet.

You'll not be getting a response from dismal for a while. He's on a "vacation".

 

[untermensche]

That's too bad.

Freedom of speech is messy.

To allow it gets messy.

Because we are apes not robots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yet unemployment is at it's lowest level since 2000. Lowering corporate taxes has already produced results in some companies remaining in America instead of setting up in lower taxing overseas countries thereby employing more Americans. All this because of Trump's policies. Actions where Obama delivered nothing but empty promises. Not to mention the ultimate betrayal of America of all time in apologizing to little more than terrorist for perceived mistaken American past policies. Bowing to the mullahs of these rogue states was the ultimate cringe worthy act of any American president in history.

Is unemployment really that low, though? We don't see the wage pressure that should result.

Rather, I think unemployment is "low" because of the gig economy. People are "employed" at things like Uber and Lyft even though they don't make much that way. Such we'll-take-most-everyone "jobs" drive down the unemployment rate without having the economic benefit of a traditional job.

There's also the proliferation of part-time jobs to avoid paying benefits.