The politics of research: Do you think the following can spur political awareness?

[phands]

Send the email to your friends and family. It is worth the try.

No..it's NOT. It's naive, trite, ineffective spam-filter fodder.

 

[bilby]

No it came out of a stranger's mouth (an obnoxious stranger at that) not from a friend or family member.

And the reason it spread is the one I gave - which remains true EVEN IF you don't like it.

Your grasp on what I am trying to do is severely limited, like shockingly ignorant (you know I don't say this kind of stuff to people often, but this post is up there in worst replies ever).

I can see EXACTLY what you are trying to do; I can see that it is doomed to fail using your current approach; And I even offered some detailed suggestions for an approach that is more likely to work.

And yet you crack the shits because I am not falling over myself to tell you how fantastic your dumb idea is.

It spread because it conformed with people's existing prejudices and desires.

And better medicine doesn't?

Not the way you presented it - as the least interesting thing since boiled cabbage, no. Humans respond to appeals to emotion.

People spread internet memes that they agree with. They do not agree with things because of internet memes.

And who said it was that way? Why waste time with the obvious? Again, how can you have such poor comprehension.

I am telling you it is that way. If you disagree, feel free to take a look for yourself at what is and is not popular, and with whom. This is really simple stuff.

Internet memes are good for bringing to prominence ideas that already exist subconsciously in the target population.

Yes, I know this, which is why I am seeing if people are ready to change the paradigm on how we think about the priority of health and medical research.

Well the answer depends on how you sell the idea. And you completely failed. Everyone hates spam; And boring spam is even worse than the regular kind.

But if you are scared of what people think of you when you have a positive message with good intentions, then clearly this kind of thing is not for you.

This kind of thing is not for ANYONE. It's not a positive message, it's an insipid call do do something poorly defined for an unstated reason. The only positive message in your spam is 'share this spam'.

So reasons like cancer and diabetes aren't stated reasons? Do you know what you are even saying????

Not only do I know; I presented a detailed critique of your suggestion, with annotations. If you can't read it, or refuse to understand it, then there's no helping you.

That's it. I am done here. Thanks for the help bilby. Just kidding, please don't ever comment on anything that I ever say again; it is just too moronic.

There's no need to be quite that hard on yourself. It was pretty moronic, but nothing that would prevent me from commenting on it.

I note your complete failure to address my actual reasoning, which you just discarded as if it never happened.

Interestingly, that tendency not to take note of things we find unpalatable because (despite being true) they cause us to emotionally reject them as they conflict with what we think SHOULD be true, is EXACTLY why your dumb idea is so dumb.

Or rather, not dumb, just oblivious to the audience reaction.

 

[bilby]

Can a moderator please change the thread title to "The politics of research: Do you think the following can spur political awareness? (Only answers in the affirmative please, the OP is hypersensitive to criticism)"

 

[ryan]

People spread internet memes that they agree with. They do not agree with things because of internet memes.

And who said it was that way? Why waste time with the obvious? Again, how can you have such poor comprehension.

I am telling you it is that way. If you disagree, feel free to take a look for yourself at what is and is not popular, and with whom. This is really simple stuff.

Read again what I said after you said, "They do not agree with things because of internet memes". You are giving me a lecture on something I did not say.

You are just babbling unhelpful strawmen.

 

[bilby]

I am telling you it is that way. If you disagree, feel free to take a look for yourself at what is and is not popular, and with whom. This is really simple stuff.

Read again what I said after you said, "They do not agree with things because of internet memes". You are giving me a lecture on something I did not say.

You are just babbling unhelpful strawmen.

Oh for fucks sake. I was RESPONDING to you. My response without the comment that inspired it is bound to appear nonsensical.

"Let's build a wall to keep out Mexicans", that spread. A large fraction of human brains processed that in a favorable way and probably passed it on.

It didn't spread because people were asked to cut and paste stuff into an email and send it to their friends.

It spread because it conformed with people's existing prejudices and desires.

People spread internet memes that they agree with. They do not agree with things because of internet memes.

You presented an alternative meme - and implied that as that meme (Let's build a wall to keep out Mexicans) was effective in spreading, so your proposed spam email would also be effective.

I pointed out that you were wrong to imply this, because your purpose is to 'raise awareness' of medical research, which unlike racist and xenophobic memes, does NOT appeal to an existing but dormant prejudice in a sizeable minority of the population.

Racists are commonplace. People who are yearning for someone to do something about 'them immigrants who are taking our jobs and our women' are, sadly, not scarce. They just needed a snappy slogan they could put on a T-Shirt, and they came crawling out of the woodwork.

You can count the number of people who are yearning for more funding for medical research on the fingers of one foot. And your spam proposal is neither snappy, nor suited to wearing on a T-Shirt. If you want people to start caring, you need to start making them care. And the only way to do that is to appeal to their emotions.

There are whole corporations whose sole product is advertising campaigns. They employ some of the smartest and most intensively trained people on the planet - because getting people to so much as change the brand of dog food they buy is a really difficult thing to do, and takes talent, skill and experience. There are a number of important 'rules' or adages in the advertising business. Your proposal met none of the requirements, and broke several of the cardinal rules. So when you ask "Do you think the following can spur political awareness?", the answer is a resounding NO.

You are guilty (as are we all at one time or another) of assuming that what you are attempting is easy enough that you can have a moderately successful go at it on your first attempt. But it's NOT easy. Changing opinions is HARD. And if you don't make at least some attempt to learn how to do it, before you try to do it in public, you will make a spectacular prat-fall.

Your failure is NOT the fault of those who point out your failure. Being laughed at when you present an epic fail and wait for praise and applause, is not an insult - it is the inevitable consequence of your actions.

 

[ryan]

Oh for fucks sake. I was RESPONDING to you. My response without the comment that inspired it is bound to appear nonsensical.

"Let's build a wall to keep out Mexicans", that spread. A large fraction of human brains processed that in a favorable way and probably passed it on.

It didn't spread because people were asked to cut and paste stuff into an email and send it to their friends.

It spread because it conformed with people's existing prejudices and desires.

People spread internet memes that they agree with. They do not agree with things because of internet memes.

You presented an alternative meme - and implied that as that meme (Let's build a wall to keep out Mexicans) was effective in spreading, so your proposed spam email would also be effective.

I pointed out that you were wrong to imply this, because your purpose is to 'raise awareness' of medical research, which unlike racist and xenophobic memes, does NOT appeal to an existing but dormant prejudice in a sizeable minority of the population.

Racists are commonplace. People who are yearning for someone to do something about 'them immigrants who are taking our jobs and our women' are, sadly, not scarce. They just needed a snappy slogan they could put on a T-Shirt, and they came crawling out of the woodwork.

You can count the number of people who are yearning for more funding for medical research on the fingers of one foot. And your spam proposal is neither snappy, nor suited to wearing on a T-Shirt. If you want people to start caring, you need to start making them care. And the only way to do that is to appeal to their emotions.

There are whole corporations whose sole product is advertising campaigns. They employ some of the smartest and most intensively trained people on the planet - because getting people to so much as change the brand of dog food they buy is a really difficult thing to do, and takes talent, skill and experience. There are a number of important 'rules' or adages in the advertising business. Your proposal met none of the requirements, and broke several of the cardinal rules. So when you ask "Do you think the following can spur political awareness?", the answer is a resounding NO.

You are guilty (as are we all at one time or another) of assuming that what you are attempting is easy enough that you can have a moderately successful go at it on your first attempt. But it's NOT easy. Changing opinions is HARD. And if you don't make at least some attempt to learn how to do it, before you try to do it in public, you will make a spectacular prat-fall.

Your failure is NOT the fault of those who point out your failure. Being laughed at when you present an epic fail and wait for praise and applause, is not an insult - it is the inevitable consequence of your actions.

All it takes is 1 out of a 1000000 to get off his lazy ass and click a few buttons to see what happens. So if it is 0 for 5, I am not worried.

 

[bilby]

All it takes is 1 out of a 1000000 to get off his lazy ass and click a few buttons to see what happens. So if it is 0 for 5, I am not worried.

Sure. If you can get 300 people in the entire USA to spam their friends, the government will ... er ... add 'more' to some medical research budget or other ... perhaps.

If you want more money to be spent on anything by the government, then you will need an actual and actionable request, with dollar figures and specific budgets on it; And you will need a LOT more than 300 members of the public spamming their former friends to get that proposal in front of anyone who has the authority to do anything with it.

Your naivety is astonishing - are you an adult? You have been a member here for a decade, so surely you must be - but your attitude suggests that either you are a wide-eyed pre-teen, or live in some kind of bubble where someone else looks after all of your immediate needs. You seem not to have clue one about how things actually get done.

 

[ryan]

All it takes is 1 out of a 1000000 to get off his lazy ass and click a few buttons to see what happens. So if it is 0 for 5, I am not worried.

Sure. If you can get 300 people in the entire USA to spam their friends, the government will ... er ... add 'more' to some medical research budget or other ... perhaps.

If you want more money to be spent on anything by the government, then you will need an actual and actionable request, with dollar figures and specific budgets on it; And you will need a LOT more than 300 members of the public spamming their former friends to get that proposal in front of anyone who has the authority to do anything with it.

Your naivety is astonishing - are you an adult? You have been a member here for a decade, so surely you must be - but your attitude suggests that either you are a wide-eyed pre-teen, or live in some kind of bubble where someone else looks after all of your immediate needs. You seem not to have clue one about how things actually get done.

I spent 2 years researching how to make this email.

But how can I take your immaturity seriously? You act like a nasty little child, you seem totally incapable of comprehending simple ideas, and you your arrogance and ignorance is at an amazingly high level.

 

[fromderinside]

Try using the following format. Send a letter to the government and to five people to donate a dollar to each of five people on a list you included in your letter and then ask them to send the letter you included taking off your name and adding theirs to the bottom of the list to the government and the four other people they listed. Results should be forthcoming.

 

[phands]

I spent 2 years researching how to make this email.

THIS is all you have after 2 years??????

It's 104 words...that's one word a week.¹

Don't give up your day job.



1. I know, specious metric, but really?

 

[ryan]

Try using the following format. Send a letter to the government and to five people to donate a dollar to each of five people on a list you included in your letter and then ask them to send the letter you included taking off your name and adding theirs to the bottom of the list to the government and the four other people they listed. Results should be forthcoming.

Are you saying to take my name of because I am a Canadian. If so, I want this to stretch to as many countries as possible. If people would just forward the email, loving it or hating it yet still believing in the message, it may just reach everyone one day.

I challenge you or who ever else is reading this to send it to a person or people that they think will send it too. Once it builds up forwarders, people will ttust it and feel more excited about sending it too.

 

[phands]

I challenge you or who ever else is reading this to send it to a person or people that they think will send it too. Once it builds up forwarders, people will ttust it and feel more excited about sending it too.

So, despite 100% negative response, you persist in this quixotic notion.

No one with a triple digit IQ will pass this on, because spamming (which is what this is) is a fast way to get added to spam filters and removed from contact lists.

However, as you will doubtless persist in this tomfoolery, good luck to you....you are doing the fingers in the ears "Lah Lah :Lah, can't hear you" routine, so no amount of the advice you asked for will change anything.

 

[PyramidHead]

Ryan, I know you want the world's nations to get together and collaborate on how to make it so people don't die anymore. But it's not such a simple thing that merely asking them to do so, even if many people do it, is going to help. Your intentions are good, but the premise you're operating under is incredibly naive. For years, you have been coming to this board with one recurring idea: spend as much money as possible on discovering how to live forever. If we spend enough money, scientists will surely figure out how to stop aging and nobody will die anymore. That's just not a reasonable approach. It's not like scientists everywhere are sitting on filing cabinets full of miraculous technologies just waiting for the research funding to come in. Nobody even knows the right place to start, and a lot of people feel (rightly, I might add) that our medical resources should be spent on making our time here less painful and more productive, rather than simply longer. I realize you haven't explicitly said that this is about tackling the problem of death, but that has been your main focus so I'm assuming that's what's really behind all this.

The main problem with the email is that it doesn't deliver any new information, or put any existing information in a better context. Nobody (literally nobody) in the government is unaware that "health and medical research helps keep people healthy and alive by creating better medicine, providing better health studies and advancing surgical technologies and procedures." We're already on-board with the existence of medical science, buddy! That much we all agree on. Yet, knowing this, they have not decided to budget more money for it than they currently are. Why do you think reminding people of something that they already know will change their minds in any way?

If the goal is not just to raise awareness but to get a lot of voices to join in, the problem is that this has already been shown through polling data. This study and others like it demonstrate unequivocally that Americans are in favor of the government spending money on research and think we could be spending more. This isn't news anymore, so adding a chain email to the pile isn't likely to make a difference.

 

[ryan]

Ryan, I know you want the world's nations to get together and collaborate on how to make it so people don't die anymore. But it's not such a simple thing that merely asking them to do so, even if many people do it, is going to help. Your intentions are good, but the premise you're operating under is incredibly naive. For years, you have been coming to this board with one recurring idea: spend as much money as possible on discovering how to live forever. If we spend enough money, scientists will surely figure out how to stop aging and nobody will die anymore. That's just not a reasonable approach. It's not like scientists everywhere are sitting on filing cabinets full of miraculous technologies just waiting for the research funding to come in. Nobody even knows the right place to start, and a lot of people feel (rightly, I might add) that our medical resources should be spent on making our time here less painful and more productive, rather than simply longer. I realize you haven't explicitly said that this is about tackling the problem of death, but that has been your main focus so I'm assuming that's what's really behind all this.

The main problem with the email is that it doesn't deliver any new information, or put any existing information in a better context. Nobody (literally nobody) in the government is unaware that "health and medical research helps keep people healthy and alive by creating better medicine, providing better health studies and advancing surgical technologies and procedures." We're already on-board with the existence of medical science, buddy! That much we all agree on. Yet, knowing this, they have not decided to budget more money for it than they currently are. Why do you think reminding people of something that they already know will change their minds in any way?

If the goal is not just to raise awareness but to get a lot of voices to join in, the problem is that this has already been shown through polling data. This study and others like it demonstrate unequivocally that Americans are in favor of the government spending money on research and think we could be spending more. This isn't news anymore, so adding a chain email to the pile isn't likely to make a difference.

First of all, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your class when critiqueing my posts. People like you DBT, Rousseau, Philos, etc. are why I come back to this forum.

So you are absolitely right. My goal in this life is not to die or to see my loved ones die.

If people would actually quit talking about this email and just send the damn thing without worrying whether or not it will work, then we will find out for sure. There is only one way to find out. Things like memes, spread unexpectedly.

This is a different way of raising awareness. I have never in my life been asked to be a part of a chain email for anything never mind a chain email to help health and lengthen lives