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The emptiness of the term "authoritarian"

PyramidHead

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Marxist-Leninist
One of the most liberating realizations I have come to in the past year or so is that the concept of "authoritarianism" is so vague and nonspecific as to be basically devoid of meaning. People apply it as a way of labeling a type of society they don't like, but this is not a useful way of categorizing societies. Outside of the class interests of the person making the charge of authoritarianism, there is scarcely any difference between the exercise of power in so-called authoritarian nations and the so-called democratic ones. Both are states, and if you don't understand what states are and why they exist, then calling some but not others authoritarian might seem like a valid framework.

However, the state doesn't make sense as an isolated phenomenon, and the application of behaviors such as suppression, coercion, and control cannot be rationalized by appealing to the inner evil of certain human beings (or more troublingly, races or ethnicities of human beings). That's a fairy tale explanation: one day, an evil wizard appeared, and he just wanted to be powerful, so he started doing authoritarianism. The good wizards in the rest of the world didn't like it, so they banded together to stop him, and from then on there was no more authoritarianism. This is the extent of many people's understanding of the second world war, for example, or the government of modern-day China.

The state is a tool for repression and subjugation in all instances, without exception, and before you take me as a libertarian, allow me to elaborate.

i. Societies are organized around producing and distributing the things that everybody needs to survive. Whichever class (and a class is just a functional role relative to the process of production/distribution of social goods) is in control of the levers of production will use the state to dominate and weaken the classes that lack such control. This is not an all-or-nothing process of course, so there will always be allowances and admixtures of greater or lesser freedoms for the non-dominant class, but in general and from far away, the state is always a tool of the dominant economic class in society that manages its ongoing conflict with the other classes.

ii. Under capitalism, the owners of the means of production are a small minority of individuals and corporations who, taken together, extract value from the exploitation of those who work for them, i.e. they pay workers less than the value created through the work they do, and channel the surplus into expansion of the company, profits, dividends for shareholders, and importantly for this discussion, influence in government. The official institutions of the state apparatus, such as the army, the legislature, the law enforcement agencies, the bureaucratic structures, and the elections themselves, only exist because class divisions exist and there needs to be some way of managing the adversarial relationship of the capitalist class to the exploited classes, whom they rely upon but cannot allow to become dominant.

iii. The authority exerted by the state in capitalist society is thus manifested in laws that protect private property, copyright, accumulated wealth, and whatever manifestation of the "general welfare" that is the most palatable to the owners of the means of production. The balance must be struck between controlling the working class so they are constantly compelled to provide their labor, and placating them with occasional concessions so that unrest does not turn into revolt. Again, I'm not just talking about some capitalist societies when I say this: all of them, in all times and places, are exactly as "authoritarian" in this sense, in that the state machine is purely an implement of keeping the workers alive, enthusiastic about working, but ultimately in check.

iv. The situation is no different in examples of societies that have been called "authoritarian" to differentiate them from Western "democracies". In such places, like anywhere, the dominant class in society uses the state to hinder the power and influence of the classes that would threaten its dominance. The reason this looks different in some places is because the capitalist class is not the dominant class in every society, and furthermore, capitalism nonetheless is the world economic system.

These two facts account for the perceived authoritarianism, as a feature that differentiates one place from another, of many non-Western societies such as China today, the Soviet Union in the last century, and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (often referred to by the misnomer of "north" Korea). In some such societies, the conditions of class struggle led to a scenario where the capitalists no longer held the dominant position. As such, the formerly exploited classes became dominant, and used the state to limit and curtail the aspirations of the formerly dominant capitalists. Because the world is still capitalist, however, the methods they used were simply more direct, to meet the constraints placed on them by the reality of global imperialism.

It's much less risky to be a socialist in a capitalist state than the other way around, because individual socialists do not pose a threat to the hegemony of capital as long as basically the entire world and its military force is committed to protecting it. When socialist and communist states impose strict penalties on capitalist behavior, their rationale for doing so reflects the vulnerability of any non-capitalist state in a capitalist world. If the resurgence of rich landlords, finance capitalists, and other elements of the bourgeoisie gets a foothold, they will more easily reclaim the state from the workers by calling upon the allies of capital throughout the world. This is what led to the ultimate dissolution of the USSR over time; from without and from within, capital infiltrated the institutions of power and regained a stronghold that was able to topple the working class from control over the state. It was able to do this with help from the many capitalist powers that had strong interests in seeing the USSR fail, and through the complacency of postwar leaders who took the lack of outright military conflict as a sign of conciliation.

This has not happened in China. After a period of opening up to foreign investment in order to leverage the survival of China as an incentive for capitalists, China has entered a period of renewed socialist development. The government is doing what every government does: applying coercion and pressure to frustrate any attempts at a permanent capitalist resurgence in society. Corruption in business is severely punished. Laws are channeled toward disproportionately harming the rich profiteers who are allowed to thrive in China to grow its productive forces. Foreign policy is not a tool of expanding and taking over other countries, but of building up their economies so they will be on China's side if there is a threat from Western capitalist powers. As such, the government in China enjoys the approval of 70-80% of the 1.3 billion people who live there and vote for representatives in huge, transparent elections. The representatives vote for officials higher in the chain, and the President is appointed democratically by these officials. Intensive polling and surveying feeds into the 5-year plans that China implements to further the transition to socialism.

From the perspective of people living on stolen land run by capitalists, this will look strange and "authoritarian". But it is no more coercive than the use of the state to oppress the masses in a society dominated by capital, and no less democratic either.
 
The term is well defined and quite well laid out in the definitive work on the subject. (Let me know if you need help googling it.)

The fact that it often gets bandied about (much like 'progressive' or 'socialist') doesn't make the term itself bad or useless.
 
Authoritarian simply refers to one who subscribes to the Appeal to Authority fallacy. It instantiates itself whenever something is deemed "right" because of the status of who is behind it. It applies to politics and governments when the only reason for a policy is "because HE said so, therefore it is unquestionably right.
When Nixon said, "If a President does it, it is not illegal by definition", he was being highly Authoritarian.
When Trump says "I have complete immunity", he is being highly Authoritarian.
 
Authoritarian simply refers to one who subscribes to the Appeal to Authority fallacy. It instantiates itself whenever something is deemed "right" because of the status of who is behind it. It applies to politics and governments when the only reason for a policy is "because HE said so, therefore it is unquestionably right.
When Nixon said, "If a President does it, it is not illegal by definition", he was being highly Authoritarian.
When Trump says "I have complete immunity", he is being highly Authoritarian.

That's a different definition than the one I'm talking about in this thread. I'm referring to the "authoritarian regime" moniker that gets thrown around about every country from Syria to Iran to China to Venezuela to Cuba to DPRK to Bolivia. Not coincidentally, all victims of imperial aggression that have undergone revolutions to overthrow or resist occupying forces.
 
There are a number of dimensions to authoritarianism. The unidirectionality of power and influence from the top downward is among them. If those who create and enforce the laws are not subject to influence by those who the laws regulate, then the system is more authoritarian. Another dimension is the method by which the authority get compliance. But these two things are highly related. A byproduct of such a system will be that those at the top do not need to persuade or reason with those lower than them to abide by the rules, b/c those people have no recourse within the system to do anything but obey. So, the authority will tend to just needs to issue commands under threat of violence (similar to what Gun Nut was talking about). This is why democracy tend toward lower authoritarianism and lower use of violent coercion than dictatorships. Democracy provides a mechanism by which rule makers and enforcers can be influenced (and outright eliminated) if they don't convince those being ruled that the rules are in their or the common interests. Another dimension is the sheer number of rules that constrain the actions of people. The more possible actions for which one could be punished by an authority, the more authoritarian the system. Again, this isn't independent of other dimensions, b/c most people prefer not to be constrained unless their is a good reason for it. Thus, democratic influence will tend to limit the number of possible actions that people can be punished by an authority for. Complicating matters is that a democratic majority can and will tend to use its influence only to reduce authoritarianism for the members of that majority, using their majority power to exert authoritarian control over the minority. The natural guard against this is if membership in the "majority" is an ever fluctuating artifact of particular context and issue, where anyone can realistically find themselves in the voting minority group and thus has motive to limit majority power even when they are in the majority. Formal Protections of individual rights (e.g., the US Bill of Rights) are a way of guarding against this type of authoritarian abuse in a democracy.
 
One of the most liberating realizations I have come to in the past year or so is that the concept of "authoritarianism" is so vague and nonspecific as to be basically devoid of meaning. People apply it as a way of labeling a type of society they don't like, but this is not a useful way of categorizing societies. Outside of the class interests of the person making the charge of authoritarianism, there is scarcely any difference between the exercise of power in so-called authoritarian nations and the so-called democratic ones. Both are states, and if you don't understand what states are and why they exist, then calling some but not others authoritarian might seem like a valid framework.

However, the state doesn't make sense as an isolated phenomenon, and the application of behaviors such as suppression, coercion, and control cannot be rationalized by appealing to the inner evil of certain human beings (or more troublingly, races or ethnicities of human beings). That's a fairy tale explanation: one day, an evil wizard appeared, and he just wanted to be powerful, so he started doing authoritarianism. The good wizards in the rest of the world didn't like it, so they banded together to stop him, and from then on there was no more authoritarianism. This is the extent of many people's understanding of the second world war, for example, or the government of modern-day China.

The state is a tool for repression and subjugation in all instances, without exception, and before you take me as a libertarian, allow me to elaborate.

i. Societies are organized around producing and distributing the things that everybody needs to survive. Whichever class (and a class is just a functional role relative to the process of production/distribution of social goods) is in control of the levers of production will use the state to dominate and weaken the classes that lack such control. This is not an all-or-nothing process of course, so there will always be allowances and admixtures of greater or lesser freedoms for the non-dominant class, but in general and from far away, the state is always a tool of the dominant economic class in society that manages its ongoing conflict with the other classes.

ii. Under capitalism, the owners of the means of production are a small minority of individuals and corporations who, taken together, extract value from the exploitation of those who work for them, i.e. they pay workers less than the value created through the work they do, and channel the surplus into expansion of the company, profits, dividends for shareholders, and importantly for this discussion, influence in government. The official institutions of the state apparatus, such as the army, the legislature, the law enforcement agencies, the bureaucratic structures, and the elections themselves, only exist because class divisions exist and there needs to be some way of managing the adversarial relationship of the capitalist class to the exploited classes, whom they rely upon but cannot allow to become dominant.

iii. The authority exerted by the state in capitalist society is thus manifested in laws that protect private property, copyright, accumulated wealth, and whatever manifestation of the "general welfare" that is the most palatable to the owners of the means of production. The balance must be struck between controlling the working class so they are constantly compelled to provide their labor, and placating them with occasional concessions so that unrest does not turn into revolt. Again, I'm not just talking about some capitalist societies when I say this: all of them, in all times and places, are exactly as "authoritarian" in this sense, in that the state machine is purely an implement of keeping the workers alive, enthusiastic about working, but ultimately in check.

iv. The situation is no different in examples of societies that have been called "authoritarian" to differentiate them from Western "democracies". In such places, like anywhere, the dominant class in society uses the state to hinder the power and influence of the classes that would threaten its dominance. The reason this looks different in some places is because the capitalist class is not the dominant class in every society, and furthermore, capitalism nonetheless is the world economic system.

These two facts account for the perceived authoritarianism, as a feature that differentiates one place from another, of many non-Western societies such as China today, the Soviet Union in the last century, and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (often referred to by the misnomer of "north" Korea). In some such societies, the conditions of class struggle led to a scenario where the capitalists no longer held the dominant position. As such, the formerly exploited classes became dominant, and used the state to limit and curtail the aspirations of the formerly dominant capitalists. Because the world is still capitalist, however, the methods they used were simply more direct, to meet the constraints placed on them by the reality of global imperialism.

It's much less risky to be a socialist in a capitalist state than the other way around, because individual socialists do not pose a threat to the hegemony of capital as long as basically the entire world and its military force is committed to protecting it. When socialist and communist states impose strict penalties on capitalist behavior, their rationale for doing so reflects the vulnerability of any non-capitalist state in a capitalist world. If the resurgence of rich landlords, finance capitalists, and other elements of the bourgeoisie gets a foothold, they will more easily reclaim the state from the workers by calling upon the allies of capital throughout the world. This is what led to the ultimate dissolution of the USSR over time; from without and from within, capital infiltrated the institutions of power and regained a stronghold that was able to topple the working class from control over the state. It was able to do this with help from the many capitalist powers that had strong interests in seeing the USSR fail, and through the complacency of postwar leaders who took the lack of outright military conflict as a sign of conciliation.

This has not happened in China. After a period of opening up to foreign investment in order to leverage the survival of China as an incentive for capitalists, China has entered a period of renewed socialist development. The government is doing what every government does: applying coercion and pressure to frustrate any attempts at a permanent capitalist resurgence in society. Corruption in business is severely punished. Laws are channeled toward disproportionately harming the rich profiteers who are allowed to thrive in China to grow its productive forces. Foreign policy is not a tool of expanding and taking over other countries, but of building up their economies so they will be on China's side if there is a threat from Western capitalist powers. As such, the government in China enjoys the approval of 70-80% of the 1.3 billion people who live there and vote for representatives in huge, transparent elections. The representatives vote for officials higher in the chain, and the President is appointed democratically by these officials. Intensive polling and surveying feeds into the 5-year plans that China implements to further the transition to socialism.

From the perspective of people living on stolen land run by capitalists, this will look strange and "authoritarian". But it is no more coercive than the use of the state to oppress the masses in a society dominated by capital, and no less democratic either.

Yea, sorry but I'd ten times rather live in a country dominated by the capitalist pigs than a country controlled by dictators or Socialists! In a capitalist country, I can start a company, start a socialist country, write a book, criticize my government, go on a road trip, and etc. In China, there are no personal civil rights. The government wants your home, they just take it. You have no rights in China. I've seen cops run over people in the street, everyone looks the other way because they have no power. Forget that.
 
It is always good to talk to examples.

I am sure the word was meaningful to the Kurds hit with chemical weapons by Hussein.
I am sure it is meaningful to the democratic resistance in Russia.

etc, amd so on, and so forth.
 
What you still don't get is a no-government scenario is unstable. There will be a source of authority, we should be aiming for as benign an authority as possible.
 
There will be an authority, but checks and balances and accountability to the people can be enforced. That's the best we can do.
 
PyramidHead wants an authoritarian government, but just doesn't like it being called authoritarian.

He is upset that corporate interests have such control over the US... which oddly isn't anything new. Though we are starting to reemerge into the wealth level of the late 19th century moguls.
 
Yea, sorry but I'd ten times rather live in a country dominated by the capitalist pigs than a country controlled by dictators or Socialists! In a capitalist country, I can start a company, start a socialist country, write a book, criticize my government, go on a road trip, and etc. In China, there are no personal civil rights. The government wants your home, they just take it. You have no rights in China. I've seen cops run over people in the street, everyone looks the other way because they have no power. Forget that.

You know precisely nothing about China and get all your information from US state department-funded outlets that have been lying to you for decades
 
Yea, sorry but I'd ten times rather live in a country dominated by the capitalist pigs than a country controlled by dictators or Socialists! In a capitalist country, I can start a company, start a socialist country, write a book, criticize my government, go on a road trip, and etc. In China, there are no personal civil rights. The government wants your home, they just take it. You have no rights in China. I've seen cops run over people in the street, everyone looks the other way because they have no power. Forget that.

You know precisely nothing about China and get all your information from US state department-funded outlets that have been lying to you for decades

State department funded outlets? You don't seem to realize that some of us have actually been out in the world. Note his words: "I've seen". Not "I've read about". I haven't seen anything that bad but it's obvious the police do not feel any need to obey rules. Beware any vehicle with government plates, it's very likely that it's going to be driven aggressively (even compared to the norm there.)

I also have two relatives who are members of the communist party. One of them I knew before he joined--before that time I considered him above average for Chinese drivers, now he's way too aggressive.
 
What you still don't get is a no-government scenario is unstable. There will be a source of authority, we should be aiming for as benign an authority as possible.

You didn't read my post, try again

What you want is a government that does not create any imposition on you. If it's fair then it doesn't create any imposition on anyone. That's no different than no government.

A no-government society rapidly converts to warlordism as people band together for safety.
 
Yea, sorry but I'd ten times rather live in a country dominated by the capitalist pigs than a country controlled by dictators or Socialists! In a capitalist country, I can start a company, start a socialist country, write a book, criticize my government, go on a road trip, and etc. In China, there are no personal civil rights. The government wants your home, they just take it. You have no rights in China. I've seen cops run over people in the street, everyone looks the other way because they have no power. Forget that.

You know precisely nothing about China and get all your information from US state department-funded outlets that have been lying to you for decades

Yea, shit, you caught me! Damn it, I've been exposed! I'm not an expert in China. However, I've spent about 15 weeks travelling in China. Done a lot of business there over the years. I have a partner that lives there. I've adopted two of my daughters from China. Spent a lot of time studying their laws. Talked to their officials. Have several very prominent friends living in Taiwan who are fighting Chinese pressure. Very surprised that you claim that the Chinese has a practicing socialist-Marxist system. So where do you get your information?
 
Yea, sorry but I'd ten times rather live in a country dominated by the capitalist pigs than a country controlled by dictators or Socialists! In a capitalist country, I can start a company, start a socialist country, write a book, criticize my government, go on a road trip, and etc. In China, there are no personal civil rights. The government wants your home, they just take it. You have no rights in China. I've seen cops run over people in the street, everyone looks the other way because they have no power. Forget that.

You know precisely nothing about China and get all your information from US state department-funded outlets that have been lying to you for decades

Yea, shit, you caught me! Damn it, I've been exposed! I'm not an expert in China. However, I've spent about 15 weeks travelling in China. Done a lot of business there over the years. I have a partner that lives there. I've adopted two of my daughters from China. Spent a lot of time studying their laws. Talked to their officials. Have several very prominent friends living in Taiwan who are fighting Chinese pressure. Very surprised that you claim that the Chinese has a practicing socialist-Marxist system. So where do you get your information?

From Chinese news outlets, state pronouncements, Xi's own words, and the fact that Marxism-Leninism is entirely consistent with everything China is doing. Taiwan belongs to China, as does Hong Kong and Tibet. For you to say "there are no personal civil rights" in China is a patent falsehood, and since you spend so much time there, I would wager it's an outright lie. China has a constitution and democratic representation down to the village level, and the government has the approval of a vast majority of the population. Loren will of course claim that this cannot possibly be true, must be a deception, or a meticulously coordinated illusion, because Loren has no problem with the Orientalist trope of Chinese people as untrustworthy and hive-minded.

I get my information from American reporters living and working in China and writing about it for an English-speaking audience, internationally recognized studies and statistics about the nation, and an appreciation of the historical context of China as emerging from centuries of domination by external forces. The Chinese state is indeed authoritarian, and a dictatorship; so is the United States. In the latter, a minority of capitalists administer authority over the vast majority of the population, and conceal this by granting meaningless "civil rights" that do nothing to threaten this state of affairs. In China, the mass of people is represented by an organ within government called the Communist Party. They prosecute and execute corrupt billionaires, massively fund public work projects at home and abroad, run state enterprises for the good of everyone rather than profit, and exert heavy control upon private corporations while still attracting foreign investment. The party is, as far as I am aware, committed to building "socialism with Chinese characteristics", namely the Marxist-Leninist line of developing productive forces while resisting imperialism and maintaining responsiveness to the people.

Chinese people criticize their government every day, in public and in news outlets alike. Any taxi driver will be happy to tell you his grievances with Chinese governance at the local or regional level, or even the national level. What China doesn't tolerate, however, is the spreading of unfounded rumors, the repetition of anti-Chinese propaganda, the slide into sensationalism and fear-mongering, or a needless disruption of stability for no good reason. In this way, they are far superior to America, for instance, where the media is basically a circus with no accountability to anyone except giant corporations and their advertising departments.
 
From Chinese news outlets, state pronouncements, Xi's own words, and the fact that Marxism-Leninism is entirely consistent with everything China is doing. Taiwan belongs to China, as does Hong Kong and Tibet. For you to say "there are no personal civil rights" in China is a patent falsehood, and since you spend so much time there, I would wager it's an outright lie. China has a constitution and democratic representation down to the village level, and the government has the approval of a vast majority of the population. Loren will of course claim that this cannot possibly be true, must be a deception, or a meticulously coordinated illusion, because Loren has no problem with the Orientalist trope of Chinese people as untrustworthy and hive-minded.

Down to the village level, but not very far up. They can vote for low level people in some areas, Xi isn't on the ballot.

I get my information from American reporters living and working in China and writing about it for an English-speaking audience, internationally recognized studies and statistics about the nation, and an appreciation of the historical context of China as emerging from centuries of domination by external forces. The Chinese state is indeed authoritarian, and a dictatorship; so is the United States. In the latter, a minority of capitalists administer authority over the vast majority of the population, and conceal this by granting meaningless "civil rights" that do nothing to threaten this state of affairs. In China, the mass of people is represented by an organ within government called the Communist Party. They prosecute and execute corrupt billionaires, massively fund public work projects at home and abroad, run state enterprises for the good of everyone rather than profit, and exert heavy control upon private corporations while still attracting foreign investment. The party is, as far as I am aware, committed to building "socialism with Chinese characteristics", namely the Marxist-Leninist line of developing productive forces while resisting imperialism and maintaining responsiveness to the people.

In other words, you read what Marxist-Leninists imagine it to be. It's pretty obvious you have never been there.

And note that you say they are democratic and yet turn around and say they are authoritarian. You can't have it both ways.

Chinese people criticize their government every day, in public and in news outlets alike. Any taxi driver will be happy to tell you his grievances with Chinese governance at the local or regional level, or even the national level. What China doesn't tolerate, however, is the spreading of unfounded rumors, the repetition of anti-Chinese propaganda, the slide into sensationalism and fear-mongering, or a needless disruption of stability for no good reason. In this way, they are far superior to America, for instance, where the media is basically a circus with no accountability to anyone except giant corporations and their advertising departments.

Sorry, but I've had too many quick changes of topic when a conversation got into sensitive areas (Always in response to a question from a Chinese person.) I can't address the taxi drivers--I've seen few that had much of anything to say and none at all that spoke more than a few words of English.

As for the "unfounded rumors"--like the doctors that got punished for reporting cases of SARS? (Technically incorrect--it was really the Wuhan-nCoV, it presents much like SARS and is a biological relative.) And anti-Chinese propaganda is whatever the government doesn't want said, the truth doesn't matter. WeChat (their answer to US social media--Facebook and the like are blocked over there) is censored if you registered with a Chinese phone number. It's not so obvious to foreigners as normally it is not censored for accounts registered with foreign phone numbers. Messages China doesn't like simply don't get delivered, whether they are true or not is irrelevant. (It's keyword based, no understanding involved.) Likewise, if you're a foreigner in a high class hotel you likely get uncensored internet so it's not so apparent what's really going on.

As for the media in China, I gave up on reading the newspaper because the news was so obviously being tampered with. Wrongdoing was only reported on if it was too widely known to hide, or if the bad guy was caught. One got no idea of what was going on in the world from reading it.

P.S. I've got a lot more than Harry Bosch's 15 weeks in China.
 
Yea, shit, you caught me! Damn it, I've been exposed! I'm not an expert in China. However, I've spent about 15 weeks travelling in China. Done a lot of business there over the years. I have a partner that lives there. I've adopted two of my daughters from China. Spent a lot of time studying their laws. Talked to their officials. Have several very prominent friends living in Taiwan who are fighting Chinese pressure. Very surprised that you claim that the Chinese has a practicing socialist-Marxist system. So where do you get your information?

From Chinese news outlets, state pronouncements, Xi's own words, and the fact that Marxism-Leninism is entirely consistent with everything China is doing. Taiwan belongs to China, as does Hong Kong and Tibet. For you to say "there are no personal civil rights" in China is a patent falsehood, and since you spend so much time there, I would wager it's an outright lie. China has a constitution and democratic representation down to the village level, and the government has the approval of a vast majority of the population. Loren will of course claim that this cannot possibly be true, must be a deception, or a meticulously coordinated illusion, because Loren has no problem with the Orientalist trope of Chinese people as untrustworthy and hive-minded.

I get my information from American reporters living and working in China and writing about it for an English-speaking audience, internationally recognized studies and statistics about the nation, and an appreciation of the historical context of China as emerging from centuries of domination by external forces. The Chinese state is indeed authoritarian, and a dictatorship; so is the United States. In the latter, a minority of capitalists administer authority over the vast majority of the population, and conceal this by granting meaningless "civil rights" that do nothing to threaten this state of affairs. In China, the mass of people is represented by an organ within government called the Communist Party. They prosecute and execute corrupt billionaires, massively fund public work projects at home and abroad, run state enterprises for the good of everyone rather than profit, and exert heavy control upon private corporations while still attracting foreign investment. The party is, as far as I am aware, committed to building "socialism with Chinese characteristics", namely the Marxist-Leninist line of developing productive forces while resisting imperialism and maintaining responsiveness to the people.

Chinese people criticize their government every day, in public and in news outlets alike. Any taxi driver will be happy to tell you his grievances with Chinese governance at the local or regional level, or even the national level. What China doesn't tolerate, however, is the spreading of unfounded rumors, the repetition of anti-Chinese propaganda, the slide into sensationalism and fear-mongering, or a needless disruption of stability for no good reason. In this way, they are far superior to America, for instance, where the media is basically a circus with no accountability to anyone except giant corporations and their advertising departments.

Clearly you don't much about China. You're making assumptions that aren't based on reality. Why not just leave it at that? Why do you need China to be this mythical paradise?
 
Neither Loren's anecdotes nor Harry's dismissal without rebuttal are admissible in an argument about facts, so my point remains uncontested.
 
Doesn’t China have a social credit system? If your score is too low then you lose rights/privileges? Saying the US and China are similarily authoritarian is ridiculous.
 
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