Sudan Massacre

[Gospel]

Geez Louise. Where did I ever explicitly say Sudan has no internal history or that Europe did everything? Quote it. You can’t, because I never said it. That claim isn’t coming from my words, it’s coming from how you felt reading my words. Your reply basically agrees with what I said, then invents some wild interpretation just so you can disagree with something I never said. Impressive.

I never claimed you literally wrote “Sudan has no internal history.” I’m saying that when you call it “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and focus on “where the ideology came from” without naming any Sudan-specific dynamics, you effectively make the Europe-origin story do most of the explanatory work. That’s the part I’m disagreeing with.

NHC

The bold and underlined part is mine. If anyone had actually asked me about that instead of arguing against a claim I never made, my responses would’ve covered it.

 

[pood]

I just wonder why a certain someone started this thread. Horrible shit goes on in Sudan. Horrible shit goes on all over the world. There is something new here?

Maybe — let me hazard a haphazard guess — maybe the OP is intended to excuse the atrocities of the West, and specifically the history of slavery and genocicde in the U.S., because, hey, everone does it.

And of course excuse the genocide in Gaza.

Just a guess.

 

[pood]

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee

AmeriKKKa!

 

[NoHolyCows]

Geez Louise. Where did I ever explicitly say Sudan has no internal history or that Europe did everything? Quote it. You can’t, because I never said it. That claim isn’t coming from my words, it’s coming from how you felt reading my words. Your reply basically agrees with what I said, then invents some wild interpretation just so you can disagree with something I never said. Impressive.

I never claimed you literally wrote “Sudan has no internal history.” I’m saying that when you call it “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and focus on “where the ideology came from” without naming any Sudan-specific dynamics, you effectively make the Europe-origin story do most of the explanatory work. That’s the part I’m disagreeing with.

NHC

The bold and underlined part is mine. If anyone had actually asked me about that instead of arguing against a claim I never made, my responses would’ve covered it.

I don’t need to ask you about thoughts you would have added in a different universe, I’m responding to the words you actually put on the page. You framed it as “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and then built your follow-ups around “where that ideology came from.” If the Sudan-specific nuance only exists in a bolded sentence in your head and not in what you wrote, that’s not me inventing a claim, that’s you not saying what you now insist you meant. Readers are allowed to critique the framing you actually gave them, not the invisible footnotes you say you would’ve supplied if only someone had asked the right question.

NHC

 

[TSwizzle]

Just a bunch of Arabs doing what they learned from the “civilized world.” And don’t come at me with “violence is just part of human history”, this isn’t simply that. What’s happening here is the same colonial logic, in Arab uniforms.

Geez Louise. Where did I ever explicitly say Sudan has no internal history or that Europe did everything? Quote it. You can’t, because I never said it. That claim isn’t coming from my words, it’s coming from how you felt reading my words. Your reply basically agrees with what I said, then invents some wild interpretation just so you can disagree with something I never said. Impressive.

When you aren't clear on what part of the "civilized world" these Arabs learned their "ethnic cleansing" from, don't get prissy when you get pressed on it.

 

[pood]

---

To comprehend the history of the American West and all that went on I recommend the late great Cormac McCarthy’s novel Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West.

Based on a true story.

 

[Gospel]

When you aren't clear on what part of the "civilized world" these Arabs learned their "ethnic cleansing" from, don't get prissy when you get pressed on it.

Bruh, learn to read. I’m not getting pressed over which ‘civilized world’ they learned it from, I’m getting pressed over a claim I never even made. I never said Sudanese got no agency or that everything’s Europe’s fault. Y’all arguing with ghosts.

Anyway, to answer the question you didn’t ask, but that I have to pull out of your completely disconnected comment…

I’m not saying Europe invented Sudanese racism. I’m saying modern ethnic cleansing needs modern identity, fixed groups, censuses, borders, population management, eliminationist logic, and those systems didn’t exist anywhere before European modernity made them global. That’s why we don’t see ethnic cleansing before the modern era: the structure literally didn’t exist yet.

Look, I respect the strengths of the European model, but we can’t pretend it didn’t come with serious side effects, including modern identity systems that other groups, like Arab elites in Sudan, now use to justify ethnic cleansing. I mean, get real, Great Britain used this same framework for colonial genocide, and so did Spain, Portugal, Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Russia. The modern identity system Sudan is using didn’t pop out of nowhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TSwizzle]

When you aren't clear on what part of the "civilized world" these Arabs learned their "ethnic cleansing" from, don't get prissy when you get pressed on it.

Bruh, learn to read. I’m not getting pressed over which ‘civilized world’ they learned it from, I’m getting pressed over a claim I never even made. I never said Sudanese got no agency or that everything’s Europe’s fault. Y’all arguing with ghosts.

Anyway, to answer the question you didn’t ask, but that I have to pull out of your completely disconnected comment…

I’m not saying Europe invented Sudanese racism. I’m saying modern ethnic cleansing needs modern identity, fixed groups, censuses, borders, population management, eliminationist logic, and those systems didn’t exist anywhere before European modernity made them global. That’s why we don’t see ethnic cleansing before the modern era: the structure literally didn’t exist yet.

Look, I respect the strengths of the European model, but we can’t pretend it didn’t come with serious side effects, including modern identity systems that other groups, like Arab elites in Sudan, now use to justify ethnic cleansing. I mean, get real, Great Britain used this same framework for colonial genocide, and so did Spain, Portugal, Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Russia. The modern identity system Sudan is using didn’t pop out of nowhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

 

[Gospel]

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

Still not reading, I see. They’re carrying out ethnic cleansing within the modern framework Europeans left behind, the same framework that makes this kind of thing possible in the first place. Jesus Christ. And if you disagree with my argument, just say that. Don’t pull a turd out of your ass and pretend it's mine.

 

[TSwizzle]

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

Still not reading, I see. They’re carrying out ethnic cleansing within the modern framework Europeans left behind, the same framework that makes this kind of thing possible in the first place. Jesus Christ. And if you disagree with my argument, just say that. Don’t pull a turd out of your ass and pretend it's mine.

Who did they learn ethnic cleansing from is what I'm asking.

 

[Gospel]

You framed it as “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and then built your follow-ups around “where that ideology came from.” If the Sudan-specific nuance only exists in a bolded sentence in your head and not in what you wrote, that’s not me inventing a claim,

Let me make this real clear. All I said was the bolded part. So any statement claiming to know ‘what I really meant’ is not mine. Capisce? You could’ve just asked instead of assuming, and when I offer corrections, actually read them and understand the context. I honestly didn’t expect people to twist it the way they did, in my circle, nobody is clueless enough to think that’s what I meant. When I post I don't consider the level of idiocy on this forum prior to posting.

 

[Gospel]

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

Still not reading, I see. They’re carrying out ethnic cleansing within the modern framework Europeans left behind, the same framework that makes this kind of thing possible in the first place. Jesus Christ. And if you disagree with my argument, just say that. Don’t pull a turd out of your ass and pretend it's mine.

Who did they learn ethnic cleansing from is what I'm asking.

Go ask your mama, ’cause my statement sure doesn’t warrant that question, but maybe she’ll entertain it.

 

[TSwizzle]

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

Still not reading, I see. They’re carrying out ethnic cleansing within the modern framework Europeans left behind, the same framework that makes this kind of thing possible in the first place. Jesus Christ. And if you disagree with my argument, just say that. Don’t pull a turd out of your ass and pretend it's mine.

Who did they learn ethnic cleansing from is what I'm asking.

Go ask your mama, ’cause my statement sure doesn’t warrant that question, but maybe she’ll entertain it.

Mama passed away ten years ago so I am asking you. Who did the Sudanese learn ethnic cleansing from?

 

[Elixir]

Go ask your mama, ’cause my statement sure doesn’t warrant that question, but maybe she’ll entertain it.

Anything will suffice if it’s exculpatory to folk who look like Swiz.

My own $0.02 is that there has never been a population group of more than a thousand that didn’t behave exactly the same under the same pressures. Probably extends to invertebrates and right on down to archae.

 

[TSwizzle]

Just a bunch of Arabs doing what they learned from the “civilized world.”

Eh?

And don’t come at me with “violence is just part of human history”, this isn’t simply that. What’s happening here is the same colonial logic, in Arab uniforms.

What?!

Gospel always blames those of European descent for every ill in the World.
Even when it's Arab Sudanese fighting against black Sudanese while being funded by the UAE.

Seems that way.

 

[NoHolyCows]

You framed it as “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and then built your follow-ups around “where that ideology came from.” If the Sudan-specific nuance only exists in a bolded sentence in your head and not in what you wrote, that’s not me inventing a claim,

Let me make this real clear. All I said was the bolded part. So any statement claiming to know ‘what I really meant’ is not mine. Capisce? You could’ve just asked instead of assuming, and when I offer corrections, actually read them and understand the context. I honestly didn’t expect people to twist it the way they did, in my circle, nobody is clueless enough to think that’s what I meant. When I post I don't consider the level of idiocy on this forum prior to posting.

You’re acting like people owe you a mind-reading session instead of taking your own words at face value. You wrote “just a bunch of Arabs…” and “same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” under your name, then built on that with a whole thread about where the ideology came from. Readers are allowed to respond to what you actually published, not to the small bolded slice you now retroactively declare to be the “real” part. If your point depended on nuance you never bothered to say, that’s on how you framed it, not on the “idiocy” of everyone who read exactly what you wrote.

NHC

 

[Elixir]

“Gospel always blames those of European descent for every ill in the World” seems at odds with the Arab uniforms specified.
But those shady Euros will try anything to avoid blame, including putting towels on their heads.

To NHC: I think Gospel’s choice of the qualifying word “colonial” has been taken to mean “white European”, which is unfortunate. It was the logic he described as colonial, and I think it’s more like “human delusion” than “colonial logic” even if colonial refers to the universal proclivity of successful civilizations to “colonize”.

 

[Gospel]

So they learned ethnic cleansing from Europeans.

Still not reading, I see. They’re carrying out ethnic cleansing within the modern framework Europeans left behind, the same framework that makes this kind of thing possible in the first place. Jesus Christ. And if you disagree with my argument, just say that. Don’t pull a turd out of your ass and pretend it's mine.

Who did they learn ethnic cleansing from is what I'm asking.

Go ask your mama, ’cause my statement sure doesn’t warrant that question, but maybe she’ll entertain it.

Mama passed away ten years ago so I am asking you. Who did the Sudanese learn ethnic cleansing from?

My bad about the mother comment, it’s just an idiom where I’m from, not literal. Anyway, my point still stands: the Sudanese didn’t ‘learn’ ethnic cleansing from anyone. They’re operating inside a modern framework that makes this kind of thing possible, and that framework happens to be a European one. That’s all I meant when I said they’re doing what they ‘learned from the civilized world.’ I wasn’t talking about the act of ethnic cleansing itself; people just chose to read it that way. I pit ‘civilized world’ in quotes, because some of the things that come out of that framework, including the capacity for ethnic cleansing, don’t look much more civilized than what came before.

 

[Gospel]

You framed it as “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and then built your follow-ups around “where that ideology came from.” If the Sudan-specific nuance only exists in a bolded sentence in your head and not in what you wrote, that’s not me inventing a claim,

Let me make this real clear. All I said was the bolded part. So any statement claiming to know ‘what I really meant’ is not mine. Capisce? You could’ve just asked instead of assuming, and when I offer corrections, actually read them and understand the context. I honestly didn’t expect people to twist it the way they did, in my circle, nobody is clueless enough to think that’s what I meant. When I post I don't consider the level of idiocy on this forum prior to posting.

You’re acting like people owe you a mind-reading session instead of taking your own words at face value. You wrote “just a bunch of Arabs…” and “same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” under your name, then built on that with a whole thread about where the ideology came from. Readers are allowed to respond to what you actually published, not to the small bolded slice you now retroactively declare to be the “real” part. If your point depended on nuance you never bothered to say, that’s on how you framed it, not on the “idiocy” of everyone who read exactly what you wrote.

NHC

You’re right, nobody owes me mind-reading. But by that same logic, I don’t owe anyone a defense against arguments they manufactured either.

 

[NoHolyCows]

You framed it as “the same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” and then built your follow-ups around “where that ideology came from.” If the Sudan-specific nuance only exists in a bolded sentence in your head and not in what you wrote, that’s not me inventing a claim,

Let me make this real clear. All I said was the bolded part. So any statement claiming to know ‘what I really meant’ is not mine. Capisce? You could’ve just asked instead of assuming, and when I offer corrections, actually read them and understand the context. I honestly didn’t expect people to twist it the way they did, in my circle, nobody is clueless enough to think that’s what I meant. When I post I don't consider the level of idiocy on this forum prior to posting.

You’re acting like people owe you a mind-reading session instead of taking your own words at face value. You wrote “just a bunch of Arabs…” and “same colonial logic in Arab uniforms” under your name, then built on that with a whole thread about where the ideology came from. Readers are allowed to respond to what you actually published, not to the small bolded slice you now retroactively declare to be the “real” part. If your point depended on nuance you never bothered to say, that’s on how you framed it, not on the “idiocy” of everyone who read exactly what you wrote.

NHC

You’re right, nobody owes me mind-reading. But by that same logic, I don’t owe anyone a defense against arguments they manufactured either.

You’ve got it backwards. Nobody asked you to defend something I “manufactured” I’ve been quoting your own lines back at you and pointing out how they actually read: “a bunch of Arabs,” “same colonial logic in Arab uniforms,” followed by a whole riff on where that ideology came from. That is the argument you put into the thread. If, after the fact, you decide you meant something tighter and more nuanced, cool, but that doesn’t magically turn earlier criticism of your published framing into a strawman. It just means your wording didn’t match what you now say you had in mind.

NHC