Startling new research finds large buildup of heat in the oceans, suggesting a faster rate of global warming

[phands]

This is pretty scary...but will trumpo and the gop do anything? I bet they won't....

The world’s oceans have been soaking up far more excess heat in recent decades than scientists realized, suggesting that Earth could be set to warm even faster than predicted in the years ahead, according to new research published Wednesday.


Over the past quarter-century, Earth’s oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, said Laure Resplandy, a geoscientist at Princeton University who led the startling study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. The difference represents an enormous amount of additional energy, originating from the sun and trapped by Earth’s atmosphere — the yearly amount representing more than eight times the world’s annual energy consumption.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ener...warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e94e27e1332

Link is behind a paywall, so open it in an igognito tab.

 

[repoman]

Reminds me of this lecture:

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is pretty scary...but will trumpo and the gop do anything? I bet they won't....

The world’s oceans have been soaking up far more excess heat in recent decades than scientists realized, suggesting that Earth could be set to warm even faster than predicted in the years ahead, according to new research published Wednesday.


Over the past quarter-century, Earth’s oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, said Laure Resplandy, a geoscientist at Princeton University who led the startling study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. The difference represents an enormous amount of additional energy, originating from the sun and trapped by Earth’s atmosphere — the yearly amount representing more than eight times the world’s annual energy consumption.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ener...warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e94e27e1332

Link is behind a paywall, so open it in an igognito tab.

I know that I'm in the minority here because most people just don't give a damn about the environment anymore. But to me, all other issues are meaningless if we don't figure out how to stop global warming. It doesn't matter if we can lower the cost of prescription drugs, provide free health care and college for everyone, flatten the organizations of large companies, increase min. wage, and etc. All that is meaningless if we can't agree on global warming. And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree that global warming is the biggest threat that we all face, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't also consider other issues that impact most people. Right now, the problem is that most people are so worked up over the crazy things going on in the country and they've put global warming on the back burner, where the heat will continue to bubble up while we're ignoring it. But, you are correct. The climate, especially due to the things that the first world does are speeding things up at a faster rate. Unless we get some leaders who understand the issues and and work to change things, tragedy will come sooner.

Do the older members here remember when Jimmy Carter was president and he had solar panels installed on the roof of the WH? Do you remember him turning down the heat in the WH and encouraging the rest of us to do the same? That man was far ahead of the curve, but people mocked him. Reagan took down the solar panels and that was the end of that. No president since has taken our reliance on carbon based fuels as seriously as Carter did. It's too bad that he wasn't taken more seriously.

 

[phands]

I know that I'm in the minority here because most people just don't give a damn about the environment anymore. But to me, all other issues are meaningless if we don't figure out how to stop global warming. It doesn't matter if we can lower the cost of prescription drugs, provide free health care and college for everyone, flatten the organizations of large companies, increase min. wage, and etc. All that is meaningless if we can't agree on global warming. And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

I don't think you're in the minority here. Most sane and realistic people agree that if we don't handle the climate issue, all else is moot. The exceptions are the usual basket of deplorables - rethuglicans, xtians (especially those who believe the dominion horsecrap) and religionists generally and of course, our small group of masculinazis.

 

[RavenSky]

This is pretty scary...but will trumpo and the gop do anything? I bet they won't....

The world’s oceans have been soaking up far more excess heat in recent decades than scientists realized, suggesting that Earth could be set to warm even faster than predicted in the years ahead, according to new research published Wednesday.


Over the past quarter-century, Earth’s oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, said Laure Resplandy, a geoscientist at Princeton University who led the startling study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. The difference represents an enormous amount of additional energy, originating from the sun and trapped by Earth’s atmosphere — the yearly amount representing more than eight times the world’s annual energy consumption.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ener...warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e94e27e1332

Link is behind a paywall, so open it in an igognito tab.

I know that I'm in the minority here because most people just don't give a damn about the environment anymore. But to me, all other issues are meaningless if we don't figure out how to stop global warming. It doesn't matter if we can lower the cost of prescription drugs, provide free health care and college for everyone, flatten the organizations of large companies, increase min. wage, and etc. All that is meaningless if we can't agree on global warming. And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

I don't think you are in the minority. I agree with you 100%. I do feel like this message is being drowned out in the political chaos, though

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This is pretty scary...but will trumpo and the gop do anything? I bet they won't....

The world’s oceans have been soaking up far more excess heat in recent decades than scientists realized, suggesting that Earth could be set to warm even faster than predicted in the years ahead, according to new research published Wednesday.


Over the past quarter-century, Earth’s oceans have retained 60 percent more heat each year than scientists previously had thought, said Laure Resplandy, a geoscientist at Princeton University who led the startling study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. The difference represents an enormous amount of additional energy, originating from the sun and trapped by Earth’s atmosphere — the yearly amount representing more than eight times the world’s annual energy consumption.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ener...warming/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2e94e27e1332

Link is behind a paywall, so open it in an igognito tab.

I know that I'm in the minority here because most people just don't give a damn about the environment anymore. But to me, all other issues are meaningless if we don't figure out how to stop global warming. It doesn't matter if we can lower the cost of prescription drugs, provide free health care and college for everyone, flatten the organizations of large companies, increase min. wage, and etc. All that is meaningless if we can't agree on global warming. And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

I disagree. Global warming will only be irrevocably damaging in 2040. I don't plan on living into 2040 so it doesn't matter to me at all. What matters right now is social security which I will get in 2038, 2 years before the world ends.

 

[TSwizzle]

I know that I'm in the minority here because most people just don't give a damn about the environment anymore.

I don't think that is true. In my opinion, environmental concerns are separate from the "anthropogenic climate change" hysteria.

But to me, all other issues are meaningless if we don't figure out how to stop global warming.

I am excited to see how the climate should not change for the first time ever !

And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

And some people question the "settled science" dogma.

 

[scombrid]

I've got over 100 years of data for some local weather stations. Our average annual temperature has gone up only about 1 degree F in the period. However, the average daily minimum temperature from June through September was 71 degrees until 1996. There is an obvious oscillation around that mean associated with NAO, AMO, ENSO cycles but then in 1996 the mean shot up to 75 F. We've had more overnights with the temp above 80F in the last 10 years than in the previous 90 combined. This isn't an urban heat island. This is with marine air dominating the weather in the summer. That summer trend is due entirely to oceanic heat. Hot water building up off Florida in summer is why coral is getting boiled in the Keys. That heat buildup is probably due to freshening of the surface of the far north Atlantic. In the winter our air masses are dominated by continental polar and continental arctic air masses. In the wet season maritime subtropical and tropical air masses dominate and dictate our daily temps. Oh, and the temperatures at the 500 millibar level have shot up which inhibits diurnal convection. So we get more humidity at the surface but less rain because our diurnal rain machine that gives us our wet season gets suppressed. We have been having some really long summer droughts in East Coast FL while the CONUS gets drowned.

So what natural geological, astronomical, or other natural change would be causing the oceans to warm as fast as they are at the same time that the mid levels of the troposphere are rapidly warming and capping the summer convection where I live?

How have the corals in the Keys survived millions of years of climate changes but this time it is happening too fast for them to adapt?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

How have the corals in the Keys survived millions of years of climate changes but this time it is happening too fast for them to adapt?

Have you considered arguing with your table instead? You may find it more productive than trying to use facts in a debate with a climate change denier.

 

[repoman]

I've got over 100 years of data for some local weather stations. Our average annual temperature has gone up only about 1 degree F in the period. However, the average daily minimum temperature from June through September was 71 degrees until 1996. There is an obvious oscillation around that mean associated with NAO, AMO, ENSO cycles but then in 1996 the mean shot up to 75 F. We've had more overnights with the temp above 80F in the last 10 years than in the previous 90 combined. This isn't an urban heat island. This is with marine air dominating the weather in the summer. That summer trend is due entirely to oceanic heat. Hot water building up off Florida in summer is why coral is getting boiled in the Keys. That heat buildup is probably due to freshening of the surface of the far north Atlantic. In the winter our air masses are dominated by continental polar and continental arctic air masses. In the wet season maritime subtropical and tropical air masses dominate and dictate our daily temps. Oh, and the temperatures at the 500 millibar level have shot up which inhibits diurnal convection. So we get more humidity at the surface but less rain because our diurnal rain machine that gives us our wet season gets suppressed. We have been having some really long summer droughts in East Coast FL while the CONUS gets drowned.

So what natural geological, astronomical, or other natural change would be causing the oceans to warm as fast as they are at the same time that the mid levels of the troposphere are rapidly warming and capping the summer convection where I live?

How have the corals in the Keys survived millions of years of climate changes but this time it is happening too fast for them to adapt?

The earth has been flooded with CO2 and methane (with also a mild cooling contribution from suspended soot) in an extremely fast manner that is unprecedented except for possibly "Large Igneous Provinces" that erupted in the past.

The heat is being trapped in the atmosphere and is randomly being pushed who knows where, but mostly into the oceans.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't think that is true. In my opinion, environmental concerns are separate from the "anthropogenic climate change" hysteria.



I am excited to see how the climate should not change for the first time ever !

And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

And some people question the "settled science" dogma.

No science is ever “settled”. Science deals in probabilities, not certainties. When the probability of something approaches 100%, then we can regard the science, colloquially, as “settled”. However, there is no reasonable doubt that the global climate is warming. And there is also a clear trail of evidence leading to the conclusion that it’s caused by our greenhouse gas emissions. But we haven't excluded everything. We haven't excluded that Aliens are warming the planet with their ray guns. Should we really wait? Do you have kids? Do you worry about their future?

We have to make decisions based on incomplete information all the time. I just paid my auto insurance (ouch, three teenagers in the home!). What are my odds for using that insurance - 1 in a million? The odds that carbon emissions are leading the way in towards global warming is around 95% (according to most studies that I've seen from scientists). Are you trying to say that we shouldn't buy insurance for that. We should take out insurance when there is even a slight probability that we will need it. Period.

 

[repoman]

It has got to be way more that 95%, probably at least 99.9995%. Hell this global warming train has just started moving, the amount of heating will continue all the way to deep into the ocean. Then it will hit the methane clathrates and it might be PETM part two or Late Permian part two. The sun is stronger than during the Permian, so even less CO2 and methane is needed now to have the same effect. Granted the continent are not in the same place as they were then.

What would it actually take for global warming to be reversed? I mean really reversed, not this wishful thinking handwaving bullshit we are all doing.

Take all of the rocks like olivine and use them for turbo weathering to suck up CO2?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/26/climate/oman-rocks.html

 

[TSwizzle]

No science is ever “settled”. Science deals in probabilities, not certainties.

Al Gore and many others appear to view things differently. They are running around screaming that we only have 12 years (11 years 3 months and two weeks now) to save the planet from climate catastrophe.

However, there is no reasonable doubt that the global climate is warming. And there is also a clear trail of evidence leading to the conclusion that it’s caused by our greenhouse gas emissions.

There is some dispute about that.

 

[repoman]

The current Carbon Dioxide and projected increase is not a threat to warm the planet, it is a guarantee to warm the planet.

The math is really simple on radiative forcing, TSwizzle, what is wrong with your brain?!?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The current Carbon Dioxide and projected increase is not a threat to warm the planet, it is a guarantee to warm the planet.

The math is really simple on radiative forcing, TSwizzle, what is wrong with your brain?!?

What's wrong with his brain is political ideology getting in the way of accepting reality.

 

[Jarhyn]

I don't think that is true. In my opinion, environmental concerns are separate from the "anthropogenic climate change" hysteria.



I am excited to see how the climate should not change for the first time ever !

And the great threat to the environment is the republican party who believes that it's all a hoax.

And some people question the "settled science" dogma.

No science is ever “settled”. Science deals in probabilities, not certainties. When the probability of something approaches 100%, then we can regard the science, colloquially, as “settled”. However, there is no reasonable doubt that the global climate is warming. And there is also a clear trail of evidence leading to the conclusion that it’s caused by our greenhouse gas emissions. But we haven't excluded everything. We haven't excluded that Aliens are warming the planet with their ray guns. Should we really wait? Do you have kids? Do you worry about their future?

We have to make decisions based on incomplete information all the time. I just paid my auto insurance (ouch, three teenagers in the home!). What are my odds for using that insurance - 1 in a million? The odds that carbon emissions are leading the way in towards global warming is around 95% (according to most studies that I've seen from scientists). Are you trying to say that we shouldn't buy insurance for that. We should take out insurance when there is even a slight probability that we will need it. Period.

Yeah, for instance, I worry fairly frequently that there will inevitably be a warming effect even I we start to recapture our atmospheric carbon pollution, purely from the fact that the human activity of taking energy that is not heat, converting it to electricity, and ultimately creating waste heat as a result, well, makes sunlight (in addition to all the energy stored on geological timeframes) turn efficiently into heat rather than being reflected or lost to other forms of energy storage, at least in the short term, and even more so if we start capturing solar in space.

Even though I know this is orders of magnitude less than the effect of captured heat from greenhouse gasses

 

[repoman]

It should be called something like "global set point change", or "global thermostat change".

It will only warm until the temperature matches the effect from the added carbon dioxide and methane.

 

[bilby]

No science is ever “settled”. Science deals in probabilities, not certainties.

Al Gore and many others appear to view things differently. They are running around screaming that we only have 12 years (11 years 3 months and two weeks now) to save the planet from climate catastrophe.

However, there is no reasonable doubt that the global climate is warming. And there is also a clear trail of evidence leading to the conclusion that it’s caused by our greenhouse gas emissions.

There is some dispute about that.

There's also some dispute about the shape of the Earth.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No science is ever “settled”. Science deals in probabilities, not certainties.

Al Gore and many others appear to view things differently. They are running around screaming that we only have 12 years (11 years 3 months and two weeks now) to save the planet from climate catastrophe.

And they should shut up, they're doing the planet a major disservice. There's no magical threshold at 12 years. IIRC this is the point beyond which it will be impossible to avoid 2C of warming--but that's an arbitrary threshold, not a tipping point. The more CO2 the worse it gets. Tipping points only occur from secondary effects--I'm aware of two but we don't have adequate data to predict when either will occur:

1) The oceanic conveyor. Shut that down and we get major cold in Europe. (The heat stays in the tropics instead.) Major local problems.

2) Methane hydrate. As it warms (or as the pressure on it lowers--the Deepwater Horizon disaster was due to methane hydrate) it release methane. This will cause temperatures to rise even more than the IPCC predictions but we don't have enough data to say how much (note that this lack of data means it's not included in the IPCC predictions.) If the feedback ratio ever goes above 1 we are in for some very hot times indeed. This point would certainly be a tipping point.

However, there is no reasonable doubt that the global climate is warming. And there is also a clear trail of evidence leading to the conclusion that it’s caused by our greenhouse gas emissions.

There is some dispute about that.

Lots of bogus stuff from the deniers, not any reasonable objection.