Post-poll Brexit poll

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

... and we don't have to send troops in future to the Russian border as part of a Quixotian European army to tilt at windmills.

What? There was a vote to leave NATO as well? I didn't see that coming.

 

[whichphilosophy]

... and we don't have to send troops in future to the Russian border as part of a Quixotian European army to tilt at windmills.

What? There was a vote to leave NATO as well? I didn't see that coming.

No a new European Army

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/plans-to-create-an-eu-army-kept-secret-from-voters/

This has been under the surface for a few years. Hopefully this will not come to fruition as poking the Russian bear will not be particularly constructive when the two sides can work together on more mutual cooperation such as against international terrorism.

 

[jonatha]

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

 

[iolo]

Maybe the Tories will try to weasel a way out of leaving. Such an action could backfire. However the process takes at least 2 or so years.

It takes no more than 2 years once you formally state your intention to leave.

The "leaders" of the Leave party are now hemming and hawing about even getting started.

The rest of the EU isn't going to put up with that for very long. There's nothing they can do to force the UK to invoke Article 50, but they can certainly make things a lot more uncomfortable for the UK while it remains.

And of course, if they ever do start the negotiations, the crooks will have to reveal what all the wicked 'experts' already knew anyway, that you cannot have your cake and eat it. To save the Brexit liars from political annihilation, they will have to go on negotiating for years and years, meanwhile blaming the EU for treating non-members as non-members.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

What? There was a vote to leave NATO as well? I didn't see that coming.

No a new European Army

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/plans-to-create-an-eu-army-kept-secret-from-voters/

This has been under the surface for a few years. Hopefully this will not come to fruition as poking the Russian bear will not be particularly constructive when the two sides can work together on more mutual cooperation such as against international terrorism.

Highly doubtful that it will come to fruition, but whether it does or not, the UK will still be committed to "send troops in future to the Russian border" as a NATO member, if that's deemed necessary. As far as a European army is concerned, I have no doubt that, even if that were to happen, the UK would have opted out, as it did with the Euro, with Schengen, with so many EU programmes. Another scare story.

- - - Updated - - -

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

What a surprise. Johnson helps make the mess, but he doesn't want to clean it up.

 

[whichphilosophy]

No a new European Army

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/plans-to-create-an-eu-army-kept-secret-from-voters/

This has been under the surface for a few years. Hopefully this will not come to fruition as poking the Russian bear will not be particularly constructive when the two sides can work together on more mutual cooperation such as against international terrorism.

Highly doubtful that it will come to fruition, but whether it does or not, the UK will still be committed to "send troops in future to the Russian border" as a NATO member, if that's deemed necessary. As far as a European army is concerned, I have no doubt that, even if that were to happen, the UK would have opted out, as it did with the Euro, with Schengen, with so many EU programmes. Another scare story.

- - - Updated - - -

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

What a surprise. Johnson helps make the mess, but he doesn't want to clean it up.

If the UK did think it was necessary; i.e. a real threat then I am sure it would send troops there. However, there was no loss in opting out of the Euro or Schengen.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

Maybe there wouldn't be a need. I think it's more a bunch of ditherers. The majority of the Tory party wanted to stay in. There was of course a split among the MPs. This was a cross-party issue and one of the problems of being a democracy. Their counterparts are not much better. Then when they get started the haggling over the price of fish will begin. It took the UK long enough to join the common market.

Michael Gove has also expressed a disinterest at becoming PM. However I think if the opportunity does come Boris and or he will jump at the opportunity.
At the same time there will be some positive discussions between the parties.

 

[iolo]

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

Maybe there wouldn't be a need. I think it's more a bunch of ditherers. The majority of the Tory party wanted to stay in. There was of course a split among the MPs. This was a cross-party issue and one of the problems of being a democracy. Their counterparts are not much better. Then when they get started the haggling over the price of fish will begin. It took the UK long enough to join the common market.

Michael Gove has also expressed a disinterest at becoming PM. However I think if the opportunity does come Boris and or he will jump at the opportunity.
At the same time there will be some positive discussions between the parties.

The majority of the tory party want to leave - the majority of tory MPs want to stay. It is much the same with the assassination attempt on Mr Corbyn, who was elected by a vast number of Labour members but is hated by the careerist MPs. People are sick to death of these posturig pillocks.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Maybe there wouldn't be a need. I think it's more a bunch of ditherers. The majority of the Tory party wanted to stay in. There was of course a split among the MPs. This was a cross-party issue and one of the problems of being a democracy. Their counterparts are not much better. Then when they get started the haggling over the price of fish will begin. It took the UK long enough to join the common market.

Michael Gove has also expressed a disinterest at becoming PM. However I think if the opportunity does come Boris and or he will jump at the opportunity.
At the same time there will be some positive discussions between the parties.

The majority of the tory party want to leave - the majority of tory MPs want to stay. It is much the same with the assassination attempt on Mr Corbyn, who was elected by a vast number of Labour members but is hated by the careerist MPs. People are sick to death of these posturig pillocks.

I have the figures here. I don’t have the Tory party membership split but given the voting was so close I am sure you are correct.

It seems illogical to ask Corbyn to resign. Cameron should possible resign because he appointed himself to the helm of the Stay campaign.
In fact it could be said that he was more successful because an even greater percentage of labour voters than Tory voted to remain. So in this sense one can argue he was successful. I'm not saying he's too honest but he should get a spin doctor to do some wording for this.

This was a cross party democratic vote and is the leader of a party of whom most of the MPs wanted to stay. Should they also resign to appease their constituents?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Highly doubtful that it will come to fruition, but whether it does or not, the UK will still be committed to "send troops in future to the Russian border" as a NATO member, if that's deemed necessary. As far as a European army is concerned, I have no doubt that, even if that were to happen, the UK would have opted out, as it did with the Euro, with Schengen, with so many EU programmes. Another scare story.

- - - Updated - - -

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

What a surprise. Johnson helps make the mess, but he doesn't want to clean it up.

If the UK did think it was necessary; i.e. a real threat then I am sure it would send troops there. However, there was no loss in opting out of the Euro or Schengen.

I said nothing about the wisdom or otherwise of opting out of the Euro or Schengen, simply that the European army thing is nothing but a scare story. Even if it is ever a real thing, the UK wouldn't be part of it, in or out of the EU. There's absolutely no appetite for it, either in parliament or in the country. So there's absolutely no need to bring it up in a debate about leaving/staying in the EU, except to scare voters into thinking they'd be forced to join.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Apparenttly, some remainers also had a change of heart so that overall the majority for Brexit would only be reduced by something like half a million votes, not enough to change the result.

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

There's indeed a reservoir of young abstentionists who might be mobilised in a second vote.

One scenario leading to a second vote might be that the economy suffers so much that people, voters and politicians alike, get real scared and throw away any democratic decency. Given the rather longuish delay for designating a new PM the economy has all the time it needs to try to scare people.
EB

 

[Jayjay]

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

There's indeed a reservoir of young abstentionists who might be mobilised in a second vote.

One scenario leading to a second vote might be that the economy suffers so much that people, voters and politicians alike, get real scared and throw away any democratic decency. Given the rather longuish delay for designating a new PM the economy has all the time it needs to try to scare people.
EB

It's been a week since the vote, and it seems that the situation has already stabilized. The London stock market is in the pre-brexit levels in GBP, and it seems that although the currency has taken a bit of a hit but is not in free fall. Besides the slight hike in living expenses can be spun to be EU's fault anyway.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Highly doubtful that it will come to fruition, but whether it does or not, the UK will still be committed to "send troops in future to the Russian border" as a NATO member, if that's deemed necessary. As far as a European army is concerned, I have no doubt that, even if that were to happen, the UK would have opted out, as it did with the Euro, with Schengen, with so many EU programmes. Another scare story.

- - - Updated - - -

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

What a surprise. Johnson helps make the mess, but he doesn't want to clean it up.

If the UK did think it was necessary; i.e. a real threat then I am sure it would send troops there. However, there was no loss in opting out of the Euro or Schengen.

I said nothing about the wisdom or otherwise of opting out of the Euro or Schengen, simply that the European army thing is nothing but a scare story. Even if it is ever a real thing, the UK wouldn't be part of it, in or out of the EU. There's absolutely no appetite for it, either in parliament or in the country. So there's absolutely no need to bring it up in a debate about leaving/staying in the EU, except to scare voters into thinking they'd be forced to join.

Too late for that as the votes have been cast. I'm not so sure it's scare story. The US has one; India and China have one so logically that would be on the cards.

 

[repoman]

I am very fuzzy on details of British politics, but it seems that Corbyn would be one of the few to have the nerve actually pull the trigger on the Brexit and invoke article 50.

I bet Boris wants one of those cushy EU bureaucrat jobs, and Brexit would kill that.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Add to that some of the 28% who didn't vote, and the result might well be overturned in a hypothetical second referendum. I'm sure many of them wouldn't be quite so complacent in that case, having already seen the effects of Thursday's vote.

There's indeed a reservoir of young abstentionists who might be mobilised in a second vote.

One scenario leading to a second vote might be that the economy suffers so much that people, voters and politicians alike, get real scared and throw away any democratic decency. Given the rather longuish delay for designating a new PM the economy has all the time it needs to try to scare people.
EB

72% was a record turnout, so if there is a referendum and less people vote, whoever loses will cry foul.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I am very fuzzy on details of British politics, but it seems that Corbyn would be one of the few to have the nerve actually pull the trigger on the Brexit and invoke article 50.

I bet Boris wants one of those cushy EU bureaucrat jobs, and Brexit would kill that.

Boris is pro BREXIT, but did admit while he is not particularly interested in being leader, just as in a rugby match, if the ball comes his way, he will have no choice but to pick it up. He was a popular entertainer in London as Mayor.

 

[repoman]

So if Brexit fails, Boris will not take an EU job?

 

[whichphilosophy]

So if Brexit fails, Boris will not take an EU job?

Unless he is elected there. Anti Eu candidates do well in such elections.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

It's not that he didn't want but he's got an image problem with the Tory grandies and Michael Gove apparently choose to take advantage of that but he himself has not chance to win. So that leaves essentially May and Fox. I say May. And she has already said leave means leave. God help Britain.

Apparently Gove couldn't get any firm assurance from Boris* that he would give him a job in his government so he ditched** Boris, who was already making a fool of himself.

Things are moving really fast sometimes and don't seem to get any better. I had hoped I could retire in peaceful times. I think the main problem is optimisation makes control more difficult, uncertain and ultimately risky. That would require smarter leaders. They are probably smarter but perhaps not quite enough.
EB


(*) Gove probably doesn't seem smart enough to Boris. Too Little Englander.
(**) Commentators talk rather of backstabbing...

 

[fromderinside]

Boris Johnson says he doesn't want to be PM.

The two top contenders now appear to be Theresa May, who was a remainder, and Michael Gove, who voted to leave.

May says that there can be no going back, but if she wins the job I wonder if she might ultimately decide otherwise.

It's not that he didn't want but he's got an image problem with the Tory grandies and Michael Gove apparently choose to take advantage of that but he himself has not chance to win. So that leaves essentially May and Fox. I say May. And she has already said leave means leave. God help Britain.

Apparently Gove couldn't get any firm assurance from Boris* that he would give him a job in his government so he ditched** Boris, who was already making a fool of himself.

Things are moving really fast sometimes and don't seem to get any better. I had hoped I could retire in peaceful times. I think the main problem is optimisation makes control more difficult, uncertain and ultimately risky. That would require smarter leaders. They are probably smarter but perhaps not quite enough.
EB


(*) Gove probably doesn't seem smart enough to Boris. Too Little Englander.
(**) Commentators talk rather of backstabbing...

I'm pretty sure petitions by Scotland and N. Ireland to break from GB will change any conservative leader's mind about leaving the EU.