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Peak Oil

The fallacy most Peak Oilers make is attributing some sort of doomsday significance to the point where oil production peaks. In reality production peaks when and because there is a reasonable substitute.
Peak oil as originally conceived by Marion King Hubbert was supposed to be a geological imperative - once you produce half the reserves you can't produce at a higher rate than at the peak no matter what. He predicted US peak which actually occurred in 1970 at something less than 10 Mbbl/day. What he got wrong though is extrapolate from a part of global oil supply to the whole. The reason US oil peaked when it did is because there were other plentiful sources of oil (Saudi Arabia was just coming into its own) that US could inexpensively import and so investment in order to keep US production high wasn't practical. However, given that US production has now exceeded this original Hubbert peak some 40 years later shows that it is hardly a strict geological rule but a function of economics.

In a 1976 interview, Hubbert argued that the oil shock would push the peak for crude oil production by ten years, or 1995 + 10:



In 2010, the IEA confirmed this:

"It’s official: Peak oil came in 2006"

http://transitionvoice.com/2010/11/its-official-peak-oil-came-in-2006/

Finally, I think for the U.S., he was referring to conventional production.
 
A lot of it has to do with US shale revolution. US is now past its original peak in 1970. Russia is also producing record amounts and KSA is producing as much as it ever did as well. There is really no entity that can take control of the market to maintain a certain price which means that game theoretically it pays to produce more rather than less.
And then all of a sudden, granted demand is down because of a European slowdown, oil just bottoms out. I don't recall if gasoline was this cheap in the '08 crash.
I think it was $2 for a while then too as a consequence of prices going way too high previously. We didn't have such a surge in prices this time around.
Then again, we had a brief gas shortage here in Atlanta back in 2008 as a result of a hurricane shutting down refineries and the product pipeline supplying us. The problem was exacerbated by our state government threatening to prosecute price gougers which didn't allow for the price at the pump to adjust to realities on the ground. The result was lines at the pump as many people wanted to fill up as soon as they were at 3/4 tank full rather than only fill up when they really needed which would have been the case had the price been allowed to go to $8 or so. Just goes to show that price controls are not a good thing.

From what I read, the "revolution" is actually only a fraction of world production, was enabled only because prices went up, and according to the EIA will peak after only a few years.

In addition, increased production is taking place together with rising capital expenditures.
 
Right. And anyway "Reserves" is a term of art, not a geological fixture. Economically recoverable reserves for a given geology are a function of price and cost, which is a function of technology. Price is a function of demand and supply, which is a function of among other things, the cost and usefulness of substitutes, which is also a function of technology.

Unfortunately, technology has significant limitations. That's why we are resorting to U.S. shale even given "vast" reserves for conventional production.

Also, the law of supply and demand was derailed for several years as global demand kept rising even with a tripling of oil prices.

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dismal, do industry experts have an idea how much oil is in the ground including the stuff that may not be easily recoverable given current technological limitations?

Peak oil involves rate of flow rather than reserves, and the effects driven by demand rate vs. rate of flow. The implication is that the effects of peak oil may take place even before production peaks.

According to the IEA, we will need extensive coordination between economies just to maintain production.

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Agreed. It's not necessarily a matter of running out of supply. We can run out of demand. If need be, the infrastructure for CNG could be built out and we would move toward that. Technological advances do not necessarily have to increase our ability to draw more oil out of the earth more cheaply. Technological advances could and likely will decrease our demand for oil.

I recall stories in years past of how environmentally nasty photographic film was to manufacture and develop. Long before we cleaned up that industry, it was largely replaced.

Actually, if demand drops, then there will be lower invests even for CNG. In addition, CNG has lower energy returns and cannot easily supply petrochemicals. The global economy needs the opposite.

Finally, in capitalist systems, technological improvements do not decrease oil demand but the opposite.
 
All major car companies developed or are developing electric cars and plug in hybrids. There are also successful startups like Tesla. I would say that counts as a change in direction.

There is something ironic to the problem of expensive new extraction techniques boosting US oil production, just as political events trigger an oil price crash. There is still a lot of oil deep under Louisiana, but until prices go back over $85/bbl, we really can't afford to pump it out.
Boosted oil production is one of the reasons for the price crash. There is still a lot of difficult to get oil all over the place actually, which is why we will never run out. Alternatives will get cheaper first, especially if some sort of global carbon tax is introduced.

Electric cars require extensive fossil fuel inputs for mining, manufacturing, and even shipping, and have significant disadvantages over petrol-powered vehicles when it comes to carrying heavy loads, handling inclines and rough roads, etc.

From what I know, the reason for the oil crash is similar to that of 2008-2009, i.e., deflation. That is why key indicators for other commodities, including copper, have been facing similar issues.

Finally, peak oil doesn't refer to running out of oil but rate of flow reaching a peak. According to the IEA, conventional production peaked in 2006. For the EIA, U.S. shale oil (which has low energy returns) is expected to peak by 2020. And in terms of global population, per capita oil production peaked back in 1979:

http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2013/07/peak-oil-what-peak-oil.html

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Limits to Growth is now 43 years old and nothing has been done about it.

Interestingly enough, the findings were vindicated recently:

"Limits to Growth was right. New research shows we're nearing collapse"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/02/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse
 
dismal, do industry experts have an idea how much oil is in the ground including the stuff that may not be easily recoverable given current technological limitations?
It's ultimately a probability game. "Proven reserves" are those reserves that can be economically recovered with a high degree of probability. This graph gives a qualitative illustration of the difference between economically recoverable oil, technically recoverable oil and total oil in place and the variability of each of these estimates with regard to confidence. As you can see, there are a lot of ins, outs and what-have-yous. Change in oil price can shift the green curve back and forth, technological developments can shift the red curve right and in any case all you really have is a pretty wide range of possibilities for each of these.
Petroleum_probabilities.JPG

This table illustrates the wide gap between the proven reserves and technically recoverable reserves for US. The difference is about the factor of 10, which is huge.

Unfortunately, higher prices are needed to get oil that is more difficult to access, and the world economy weakens or crashes when prices go up:

"Our Oil-Constrained Future"

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/our-oil-constrained-future

Meanwhile, marginal costs are rising due to peak oil. More details are given in this lecture:

"Global Oil Market Forecasting: Main Approaches & Key Drivers"

http://energypolicy.columbia.edu/ev...arket-forecasting-main-approaches-key-drivers

(includes presentation in PDF and video)
 
Have to admit I didn't see the price decline coming.

Obviously there is a trade off between cheaper energy and environmental damage as arkirk points out.

Peak Oil was more of a conservative, libertarian concept. For example, Agora Finance has been talking about it for decades. I didn't read the OP that carefully so I'm not sure if that point was brought out.

I tend to view the decline as real, but having no idea that this was going to happen, I'm not expecting people to take me seriously.

Also, I think this makes the Keystone pipeline untenable economically but of course it's the principle of the thing now.

It's actually a scientific fact, and the main reasons include gravity and oil being a limited resource. That's why several oil-producing countries have reached or passed peak production.
 
There is only so high the price can go. As price increases economically recoverable supplies also increase as the demand decreases resulting in a negative feedback loop. Same goes for when the price falls, as it did recently - demand increases because the product is cheaper and higher cost producers slow down production reducing supply. That is why I do not think prices will go much lower than they are now. Neither will we ever see $200/bbl oil but we will likely be as high as $100 by Summer 2016 at the latest.

Discovery of US oil fields peaked around 1930, and production peaked around 1970.
Your article has this chart.
1-us-oil-production-1940-2011-300x300.jpg

It caught just the beginning of the recent increase in US oil production due to the shale revolution. Right now US produces about as much oil as it did at 1971 peak. That is not supposed to happen under Peak Oil theories - once peak is passed the oil production irreversibly declines. But higher prices and technological advances thwarted that.
Furthermore, from your link:
Those in Alaska are near exhaustion, since they peaked in 1988 and are nearly dry now. All these slogans about “Drill, baby, drill” solving our problems are just fantasies. The U.S. oil companies have indeed been drilling as fast as they could everywhere in the U.S., and as the figure shows, getting very little no matter where they look.
The "drill baby drill" refers mostly to opening areas for oil exploration that have been closed for political reasons - to wit US offshore everywhere except western Gulf of Mexico or ANWR. If these areas were opened a couple million bbl/day of production capacity could be added.

Prothero continues on ANWR:
One of the favorite arguments is to drill more in Alaska, especially in the ecologically sensitive Arctic National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR) on the North Slope. The entire issue became a political hot button in the 2008 presidential election, as environmentalists pointed out how much habitat would be destroyed in the short-term search for oil. But the answer is clear, no matter what your politics: such exploration and possible production would be just a drop in the bucket. In 1998, a non-partisan federal agency, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated that there were at best only 16 billion barrels of oil in the ANWR and most of these reserves are prospective resources, not proven resources. Sixteen billion barrels sounds like a lot until you realize that it’s less than 1% of the total world oil consumption each year. The U.S. alone consumes over 20 million barrels of oil per day, so even if every drop of oil were actually extracted from the ANWR, it would at best provide two to three years’ worth of oil for the U.S.—and then it would be exhausted, and what would remain would be an ecological disaster.
There are several whoppers in this paragraph. First, 16 Gbbl would not be "1% of the total world oil consumption each year" - it would be more than a half actually since world uses about 25 Gbbl/year. Don't know how he came up with "1%".
Second, his way of looking at the amount of oil in a field is very weird (although I have come across it before by opponents). Even at half the number cited here ANWR would be bigger than all but perhaps two dozen fields ever discovered. And most oil fields would be much smaller, especially these days when new giant fields are a rarity. You simply do not take recoverable reserves of a field and divide it by total oil consumption and decide that it's not very long so why bother. No oil producing region, no oil company on the face of the Earth ever used such a calculation to determine whether an oil field is worthwhile to extract. I think Prothero should stick to dinosaurs.

World discovery rate peaked in 1965, and has been steeply declining ever since, even though more and more exploration is conducted in the farthest reaches of the globe in the past 47 years. The “peak oil” effect has probably already occurred, and we are likely on the slow downward decline in discoveries of cheap, easy-to-pump oil.
Cheap is relative. In the 90s oil in the $40s looked very expensive. Now, it looks very cheap. We adjusted to the higher price levels relatively well. Yes, the era of cheap oil is over. We will never again see oil in $20s or even $30s but that hasn't spelled a "Collapse" of modern societies.

However, we are still too close to the date to pin it down with any confidence. A date likely somewhere in 2005 - 2010.
I don't see it.
world-oil-production-1965_2010.png


There are no polls that show just how many qualified experts (geologists and geological engineers within and close to the oil industry) accept the concept of peak oil and the end of cheap abundant oil, but a lot of oil experts are on the record as supporting it, including a number of oil geologists and executives. My many friends in the oil business almost all tell me that “peak oil” is widely accepted among their colleagues, and they have long been forced to work with extraordinarily difficult exploration problems because there are no easy oil fields any more.
While it is clear that oil, being a finite resource, cannot grow in production indefinitely I think that Hubbert's concept of an identifiable peak after which production inevitably declines is a rather simplistic one, as can be seen in US reaching the old peak again, 40+ years later. And that with wide swaths of possible production artificially closed off.

DP then mentioned other users of oil: plastics, fertilizers, and pesticides.
Fertilizers (more accurately fixing nitrogen through the Haber-Bosch process) actually uses natural gas rather than oil. But in general various fuels account for vast majority of oil used. More than half is used for gasoline alone.
barrel-of-oil-composition.jpg

If oil were not needed to burn as fuels the very small amount used for other things could be easily met.

He also slammed biofuels as a cure worse than the disease in some ways.
I agree. They are a boondoggle, at least as practiced today. Blame the Iowa caucuses I guess. Using waste biomass is a much more sensible idea.

He concluded by noting Germany's increasing use of wind and solar energy, starting in the 1990's. Such efforts have been bearing fruit, as one can tell from stories in Cleantech News — Solar, Wind, EV News (#1 Source) | CleanTechnica and other places. However, wind and solar energy are mostly for electricity generation, and the fossil fuels for that are mostly coal and natural gas. Also, electric cars aren't very big competition for gasoline ones. Cellulose digestion could make biofuel production more efficient, but its commercialization is only beginning. So there isn't any good substitute for oil, at least not just yet.
It is also a fact that the cost for this German program are very high. Electricity in Germany costs three times of the US price. Germany never made much economic sense as a pioneer solar country given their low insolation.
As to electric cars, they may not be a big competition for ICE cars, but that is changing. Electric cars are definitely coming of age with the latest generation of electric vehicles like Tesla and Nissan Leaf (which I see all the time on Atlanta roads lately). Other manufacturers are bringing their own products as well. Just the other day I saw an all electric Focus at the park I walk my dog at.

I think the U.S. forecast referred to conventional production. The charts today now mix conventional and unconventional production:

"World crude production 2013 without shale oil is back to 2005 levels"

http://crudeoilpeak.info/world-crude-production-2013-without-shale-oil-is-back-to-2005-levels
 
In a 1976 interview, Hubbert argued that the oil shock would push the peak for crude oil production by ten years, or 1995 + 10:
Which would put 2015 ten years even after this adjusted peak. Look at the shape of Hubbard's curve. Oil production figures simply do not fit the decline he predicted.


http://transitionvoice.com/2010/11/its-official-peak-oil-came-in-2006/

Finally, I think for the U.S., he was referring to conventional production.

IEA is only considering conventional oil too. They are also saying that there is a plateau, which is very different than the merciless and steep downward slope of Hubbard's Gaussian graph which fueled the scaremongering of the Peakers.
 
From what I read, the "revolution" is actually only a fraction of world production, was enabled only because prices went up, and according to the EIA will peak after only a few years.

In addition, increased production is taking place together with rising capital expenditures.

Of course it has a lot to do with higher prices. That is the major weakness of Peak Oil alarmism. It's not only that price is a function of supply and demand, but supply and demand are in turn a function of the price. Which means there is a feedback mechanism. Higher price increases available supply by making more of the known oil economical to extract as well as making it more lucrative to look for new oil.
At the same time higher prices lead to reduction in demand - people drive less, buy more fuel efficient cars. If the price increase is large and sudden demand can be destroyed by slowdown in economic activity as happened in 2008. But since then and until recently price has hovered around $100 and the world economy, while not exactly going strong, did not collapse into a Mad Max-like dystopia as many Peak Oilers predicted.
 
Peak oil as originally conceived by Marion King Hubbert was supposed to be a geological imperative - once you produce half the reserves you can't produce at a higher rate than at the peak no matter what. He predicted US peak which actually occurred in 1970 at something less than 10 Mbbl/day. What he got wrong though is extrapolate from a part of global oil supply to the whole. The reason US oil peaked when it did is because there were other plentiful sources of oil (Saudi Arabia was just coming into its own) that US could inexpensively import and so investment in order to keep US production high wasn't practical. However, given that US production has now exceeded this original Hubbert peak some 40 years later shows that it is hardly a strict geological rule but a function of economics.

In a 1976 interview, Hubbert argued that the oil shock would push the peak for crude oil production by ten years, or 1995 + 10:



In 2010, the IEA confirmed this:

"It’s official: Peak oil came in 2006"

http://transitionvoice.com/2010/11/its-official-peak-oil-came-in-2006/

Finally, I think for the U.S., he was referring to conventional production.


What's the rational basis for confining the definition to "conventional" production?
 
The oil industry uses some strange language indeed. They speak of oil they pump out of the ground as recovery. It actually isn't you know...man never had it and lost it, so whatever they're doing isn't recovery...the recovery of which they speak is of their investments in wells and is not an expression of humanity's relation to its environment. Their place in the scheme of things is discovery followed by displacement and relocation in the limited surface environment...in the form of combustion products, chemical residues, plastics, and a lot of crude oil pollution of water and land.

Also, the good doctor's chart bears a strong resemblance to a logarithmic curve. Logarithmic curves do not fit well in limited sized environments.:thinking:
 
Unfortunately, technology has significant limitations.
I do not think we are anywhere close to exhausting the limits when it comes to energy technology.
That's why we are resorting to U.S. shale even given "vast" reserves for conventional production.
US doesn't have vast reserves of conventional production and neither do most places outside the Middle East and there is much evidence those reserve numbers are inflated for political reasons. Like it or not, an increasing share of global oil supply will come from non-conventional sources and conventional but difficult to produce oil like ultra-deepwater or Arctic.

Also, the law of supply and demand was derailed for several years as global demand kept rising even with a tripling of oil prices.
The law of supply and demand wasn't derailed, it was in action. The reason oil prices tripled was precisely because of increased demand which would have been even higher had oil prices not risen so much in response.

Peak oil involves rate of flow rather than reserves, and the effects driven by demand rate vs. rate of flow.
The two are closely related as reserves are linked to total oil that will be recovered and that is simply the time integral of rate.
The implication is that the effects of peak oil may take place even before production peaks.
What kinds of effects? I linked to several old threads from FRDB on peak oil. There were many who believed that we would suffer dire effects by now due to oil peaking - including flying being accessible only to the wealthy. None of it has come to pass.
According to the IEA, we will need extensive coordination between economies just to maintain production.
Not quite sure what you mean here.

Actually, if demand drops, then there will be lower invests even for CNG. In addition, CNG has lower energy returns and cannot easily supply petrochemicals. The global economy needs the opposite.
Finally, in capitalist systems, technological improvements do not decrease oil demand but the opposite.
I don't see that. For example, a widespread adoption of electric cars would seriously depress demand for oil.
 
Electric cars require extensive fossil fuel inputs for mining, manufacturing, and even shipping,
As do conventional cars, but unlike conventional cars electric cars do not necessarily require fossil fuels to operate (however they currently do given electricity mix in most places).

and have significant disadvantages over petrol-powered vehicles when it comes to carrying heavy loads, handling inclines and rough roads, etc.
Electric motors actually have a lot of low-end torque so I do not see them having a disadvantage there at all. Of course a lot depends on the vehicle itself, quite apart from the powertrain. Electric cars have traditionally either been small city cars like the Leaf or sporty cars like Tesla, but that doesn't mean electric motors can't be used in other kinds of vehicles.
Catterpillar's hybrid bulldozer
Wallmart's hybrid truck concept

From what I know, the reason for the oil crash is similar to that of 2008-2009, i.e., deflation. That is why key indicators for other commodities, including copper, have been facing similar issues.
The reason for the oil crash in 2008 was that oil price went to almost $150 which triggered (not caused, there was underlying rot that finally gave way) the worldwide financial/economic crisis. We do not have anything like this now.
The drop in oil prices now has other causes - US shale oil expansion, Canadian oil sands expansions, maturing of Chinese economy, increase in fuel economy of cars, and last but not least the unwillingness of OPEC to prop up the prices via a cutback in production.

Finally, peak oil doesn't refer to running out of oil but rate of flow reaching a peak. According to the IEA, conventional production peaked in 2006. For the EIA, U.S. shale oil (which has low energy returns) is expected to peak by 2020. And in terms of global population, per capita oil production peaked back in 1979:
First of all, I would advise you not to give too much credence to peaker blogs. Second, using less oil per capita is just a testament to increases in energy efficiency over the last 30-40 years. A greater portion of people drive and fly than did in 1979, and yet we use less oil to accomplish that. That's a good thing, not bad.


"Limits to Growth was right. New research shows we're nearing collapse"

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ight-new-research-shows-were-nearing-collapse

If I had a nickel (US 5 cent coin) every time somebody predicted a collapse I could probably corner the world nickel (metal) market. These predictions are nothing new. The FRDB threads from ten years ago, some of which I linked to in the OP, were full of predictions of collapse. As was Michael Ruppert's 2009 film aptly named "Collapse".

None came to pass. It turns out the global economy and human societies are much more resilient than some give it credit.
So why should I give more credence to this Guardian prediction of doom?
 
Hey, Derec, what are your thoughts on the Kerogen in the Green River Formation? The estimate of 3 trillion barrels of oil gets thrown around. It seems like we have the technology to pull it off (maybe not the 3 trillion figure); however, it takes a lot of energy. I would think it's the ideal place to stick a wonderfully clean and safe nuclear plant. We may never need the oil, but we could always use the electricity.
 
Unfortunately, higher prices are needed to get oil that is more difficult to access, and the world economy weakens or crashes when prices go up:
Well economy did work even with $100 oil. And in the future oil will represent a decreasing portion of primary energy (right now oil is at about 1/3). That means that economy will be able to absorb an even higher oil price if necessary.
 
Hey, Derec, what are your thoughts on the Kerogen in the Green River Formation? The estimate of 3 trillion barrels of oil gets thrown around. It seems like we have the technology to pull it off (maybe not the 3 trillion figure); however, it takes a lot of energy. I would think it's the ideal place to stick a wonderfully clean and safe nuclear plant. We may never need the oil, but we could always use the electricity.
Definitely a lot of material but it is a sort of precursor to oil that needs to be converted to oil first. As you said, it takes a lot of energy but if waste heat from a nuke plant can be used so much the better.
On the one hand it proves that we are not facing a future of going back to a pre-industrial way of life due to lack of liquid fuels. On the other hand I hope we will not have to use it because of CO2 emissions.
 
Which would put 2015 ten years even after this adjusted peak. Look at the shape of Hubbard's curve. Oil production figures simply do not fit the decline he predicted.


http://transitionvoice.com/2010/11/its-official-peak-oil-came-in-2006/

Finally, I think for the U.S., he was referring to conventional production.

IEA is only considering conventional oil too. They are also saying that there is a plateau, which is very different than the merciless and steep downward slope of Hubbard's Gaussian graph which fueled the scaremongering of the Peakers.

1995 + 10 is 2005, not 2015.

Also, my understanding is that Hubbert's model involves fixed parameters for production, i.e., economies will move to other sources of energy rather than pay for higher marginal costs, which is the result of peak oil. That's why nuclear power is mentioned.

The problem is that nuclear power cannot ensure the availability of petrochemicals easily, and significant sectors of mining, manufacturing, and even mechanized agriculture are still dependent on fossil fuels. Hence, quantitative easing and resorting to unconventional production.
 
From what I read, the "revolution" is actually only a fraction of world production, was enabled only because prices went up, and according to the EIA will peak after only a few years.

In addition, increased production is taking place together with rising capital expenditures.

Of course it has a lot to do with higher prices. That is the major weakness of Peak Oil alarmism. It's not only that price is a function of supply and demand, but supply and demand are in turn a function of the price. Which means there is a feedback mechanism. Higher price increases available supply by making more of the known oil economical to extract as well as making it more lucrative to look for new oil.
At the same time higher prices lead to reduction in demand - people drive less, buy more fuel efficient cars. If the price increase is large and sudden demand can be destroyed by slowdown in economic activity as happened in 2008. But since then and until recently price has hovered around $100 and the world economy, while not exactly going strong, did not collapse into a Mad Max-like dystopia as many Peak Oilers predicted.

Actually, higher prices due to higher production costs is not the "major weakness" of peak oil but the result of it.

The argument concerning supply and demand is based on the premise that production costs have not gone up. But they have, as explained in Kopits' lecture.

Finally, peak oil refers to the scientific fact that oil production rate will reach a peak. It is not concerned with discussing the result of that.
 
In a 1976 interview, Hubbert argued that the oil shock would push the peak for crude oil production by ten years, or 1995 + 10:



In 2010, the IEA confirmed this:

"It’s official: Peak oil came in 2006"

http://transitionvoice.com/2010/11/its-official-peak-oil-came-in-2006/

Finally, I think for the U.S., he was referring to conventional production.


What's the rational basis for confining the definition to "conventional" production?


From what I remember, it was what Hubbert referred to in his forecast:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak_theory

and it's because for decades conventional production had high energy returns. But when those went down, we started to resort to unconventional production.

Unfortunately, a capitalist global economy needs the opposite.
 
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