Nuclear armed rogue state

[blastula]

Trump and the Nuclear Keys - The New York Times

Under the Constitution, no one could veto a bad call by a President Trump. The 90 launch officers who are always on duty in the Great Plains, along with their counterparts in submarines patrolling the oceans, would have no choice but to execute the most morally reprehensible order ever issued in the history of warfare.

 

[DrZoidberg]

And honestly, if you were in a position of power, wouldn't you like to be surrounded by people who both obey, but also think for themselves? To catch you in your moments of weakness. We all have them.

But this is TRUMP. Trump does not care to be challenged.

His entire mentality is that if someone points out a problem, he makes the person go away, then there's no problem.
To him, 'think for yourself,' should be limited to the minions doing the scut work that's necessary to bring his high minded thoughts to fruition... Not to check his spelling or constitutional powers and say 'Wrong.'

You don't get or stay rich unless you learn to listen to experts.

 

[barbos]

The prospect of a first strike by a nuclear armed rogue state has been terrifying the world since the start of the nuclear age, but recent events make such a strike perhaps more likely than ever before.

I seems that there is now a genuine risk that a rogue state, armed with missile launched nuclear weapons, could launch an attack against North Korea.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tillerson-asia-20170317-story.html

But is it? The only point of NK having nukes is to act as a deterrent. If somebody attacks NK, then they can send their nukes. The greater distance they can travel, the greater the deterrence. That's why they're still working on them.

If they'd ever use the nukes they'd lose their trump. They can't use them. So they won't. I don't think we need to worry. Yes, Kim Jong-Un is erratic. But if he was suicidal, I can think of less painful ways to go than also dragging down the free world with him.

I'm convinced that sooner or later somebody in the upper echelons of NK will take out their gun and shoot the incumbent Kim in the head, and that'll be the end of it. Just like that. It can happen any day now. We just have to wait them out. That's not to say that everything will be rosy and amazing at that point. We'll most likely get Libya 2. But I think the end will come from inside.

Then we can worry. Because then the nukes are likely to fall into terrorist hands. That would be bad. Nukes smuggled into a country and blown up on the ground is bad, and also possible to pull off by a small group of terrorists with minimal expertise. That's more likely to happen than any ballistic missile being shot

I think you need to re-read the OP.

The last word in particular.

Yeah, and reading it was unnecessary for me cause I knew what it was going to be about after reading the thread tittle.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Trump and the Nuclear Keys - The New York Times

Under the Constitution, no one could veto a bad call by a President Trump. The 90 launch officers who are always on duty in the Great Plains, along with their counterparts in submarines patrolling the oceans, would have no choice but to execute the most morally reprehensible order ever issued in the history of warfare.

Well, that's not true at all. They would definitely have a choice. It's a choice between executing that reprehensible order and being thrown in jail for life or perhaps be shot for treason, but it's still a choice. They would need to decide to help launch the nuclear strike.

 

[Speakpigeon]

They see it as an iron-clad insurance against regime change they have become convinced will be initiated by the U.S sooner or later, especially by the kind of people currently in office in Washington, who are not going to listen to the Chinese worrying about a North-Korean collapse and ensuing chaos, or to the South-Koreans who are within range of ordinary ordinance coming from the North and who still have sentimental ties to the people there.
EB

Nah. It's a bid to stay relevant and get attention. The world has moved on and North Korea can easily be forgotten. If the sole fat guy in North Korea doesn't continue to stoke imaginary fears of imminent invasion, the raison d'etre of the regime falls away.

There's a bit of that too but recent history includes the U.S. invading Irak on false pretense and Saddam Hussein ending up ignominiously hanged. I'd be worried if I was the North-Korean leader. Of course, crucially, Saddam didn't have nuclear weapons. He in fact didn't have any WMDs but he had a large conventional army with a good deal of experience gained at great human cost against the Iranian troops. And then it took only a few days for the U.S. forces to crush it. That set a bad example in the eyes of people like the then and the current North-Korean leaders.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

I think you need to re-read the OP.

The last word in particular.

Yeah, and reading it was unnecessary for me cause I knew what it was going to be about after reading the thread tittle.

Yeah. And someone had to do this thread! And the title wording was pitch perfect! It's a bit of a tittle-tattle thread but, hey, sometimes it's good to gossip about world leaders.
EB

 

[TV and credit cards]

Trump and the Nuclear Keys - The New York Times

Under the Constitution, no one could veto a bad call by a President Trump. The 90 launch officers who are always on duty in the Great Plains, along with their counterparts in submarines patrolling the oceans, would have no choice but to execute the most morally reprehensible order ever issued in the history of warfare.

Well, that's not true at all. They would definitely have a choice. It's a choice between executing that reprehensible order and being thrown in jail for life or perhaps be shot for treason, but it's still a choice. They would need to decide to help launch the nuclear strike.

Taken in it's proper context, would that really be such a bad deal? Considering who the Commander in Chief is, for me, were I a launch officer, it would be a matter of how blind I am to the current world situation when the order comes down. To stand with your back against the wall with a cigarette in your mouth knowing you correctly defied this lunatic might not be so bad.

 

[Syed]

Nuclear armed rogue state

only one rogue state used nuclear bomb on civilians

guess the name?

 

[bilby]

Nuclear armed rogue state

only one rogue state used nuclear bomb on civilians

guess the name?

See, this is the sort of fool you make of yourself by only reading the title.

Read the OP.

Several times, if necessary.

 

[Keith&Co.]

only one rogue state used nuclear bomb on civilians

guess the name?

See, this is the sort of fool you make of yourself by only reading the title.

Read the OP.

Several times, if necessary.

HE may need some cartoons...

 

[barbos]

Are you all saying that POTUS can simply wake up one day and nuke some random country?
Seems too dangerous even before Trump.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Are you all saying that POTUS can simply wake up one day and nuke some random country?

No, we're saying that legally, he can wake up and nuke any country that's available on the menu. He can be stopped, but stopping him would be mutiny, treason, bad juju, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct unbecoming. And they take away your snazzy hat.

 

[barbos]

Are you all saying that POTUS can simply wake up one day and nuke some random country?

No, we're saying that legally, he can wake up and nuke any country that's available on the menu. He can be stopped, but stopping him would be mutiny, treason, bad juju, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct unbecoming. And they take away your snazzy hat.

I think it's more complicated than that. Watching movies I got impression that you need an agreement from at least two highest rank people.
Planes are flown by 2 pilots, operating red button by one Trump seems highly illogical and inconsistent.

 

[bilby]

No, we're saying that legally, he can wake up and nuke any country that's available on the menu. He can be stopped, but stopping him would be mutiny, treason, bad juju, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct unbecoming. And they take away your snazzy hat.

I think it's more complicated than that. Watching movies I got impression that you need an agreement from at least two highest rank people.
Planes are flown by 2 pilots, operating red button by one Trump seems highly illogical and inconsistent.

According to Wikipedia:

Only the President can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, including the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). While the President does have unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time, the actual procedures and technical systems in place for authorizing the execution of a launch order requires a secondary confirmation under a two-man rule, as the President's order is subject to secondary confirmation by the Secretary of Defense. If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, then the President may in his sole discretion fire the Secretary. The Secretary of Defense has legal authority to approve the order, but cannot veto it.

So in practice, Trump can only order a nuclear strike if his SecDef - Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis - agrees.

And if someone called "Mad Dog" turns out not to be as crazy as his boss, there's nothing to stop Trump from firing him, and appointing a new SecDef who will do as he is told.

So that's not entirely reassuring.

 

[barbos]

I think it's more complicated than that. Watching movies I got impression that you need an agreement from at least two highest rank people.
Planes are flown by 2 pilots, operating red button by one Trump seems highly illogical and inconsistent.

According to Wikipedia:

Only the President can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, including the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). While the President does have unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time, the actual procedures and technical systems in place for authorizing the execution of a launch order requires a secondary confirmation under a two-man rule, as the President's order is subject to secondary confirmation by the Secretary of Defense. If the Secretary of Defense does not concur, then the President may in his sole discretion fire the Secretary. The Secretary of Defense has legal authority to approve the order, but cannot veto it.

So in practice, Trump can only order a nuclear strike if his SecDef - Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis - agrees.

And if someone called "Mad Dog" turns out not to be as crazy as his boss, there's nothing to stop Trump from firing him, and appointing a new SecDef who will do as he is told.

So that's not entirely reassuring.

It's better than nothing but I do miss George W. Bush.

 

[Speakpigeon]

It's better than nothing but I do miss George W. Bush.

Although George W. really made the nest for this cuckoo.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

So in practice, Trump can only order a nuclear strike if his SecDef - Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis - agrees.

And if someone called "Mad Dog" turns out not to be as crazy as his boss, there's nothing to stop Trump from firing him, and appointing a new SecDef who will do as he is told.

So that's not entirely reassuring.

They would not do something like Hiroshima, we can hope, because there would be no military value in that and everybody else would condemn such an action. Instead, they would much more likely target facilities, and not necessarily using a nuclear weapon because they may not need that much destructive power. They would probably do like in Irak with a prolonged campaign of destruction using so-called 'surgical strikes' without actually going in with ground troops at the end. However, even this scenario is not very likely. I guess it's a plausible scenario given the psychological makeup of the main characters but lots of people in the administration would probably advise against it as being too much fraught with uncertainties. What makes it much more likely is that North-Korea is getting apparently very close to effective nuclear dissuasion capability. The Trump administration may want to strike before that happens. Alternatively, they may well have already put the Chinese on notice: take care of him or we'll do it our way. This could be a much better solution, if the Chinese are up to it.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Are you all saying that POTUS can simply wake up one day and nuke some random country?

No, we're saying that legally, he can wake up and nuke any country that's available on the menu. He can be stopped, but stopping him would be mutiny, treason, bad juju, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct unbecoming. And they take away your snazzy hat.

Yeah but America's own film industry is producing countless movies where the hero is just such a guy who doesn't blindly follow orders, put his life in the balance to do the right thing, and comes out OK in the end and he gets to have the nice girl too. Surely, marines watch those films, right?
EB

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's better than nothing but I do miss George W. Bush.

Although George W. really made the nest for this cuckoo.
EB

So did Bush sr as well as Reagan. The Republicans have consistently gone for populistic bullshitters with no plan and less solutions. "Reaganomics", The idea that you don't have to worry about how much you're spending. Just borrow the money you want and let the next sucker pick up the bill. It's funny how Thatcher's quote "the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money". That quote fits Reaganomics equally well.

I'm not saying the Democrat elected have been perfect. But when the conservatives criticise the Demorat presidents it rings a bit hollow, considering the complete arses they've elected.

 

[Speakpigeon]

I think it's more complicated than that. Watching movies I got impression that you need an agreement from at least two highest rank people.
Planes are flown by 2 pilots, operating red button by one Trump seems highly illogical and inconsistent.

So they have to have a second Trump.

I suspect that was the job of the Russians, to manufacture a Trump clone.
EB