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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

 
 
 
Thomas II said:
The fig tree story is what motivated me to research the Bible...for hidden meaning...I still have a lot of questions...
What is happening in Israel now might be related to this little story after all...
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Bishop Spong discusses the fig tree in some of his books. (He wrote more than a dozen; I've read only one.)

In the synoptic Gospels the triumphant Palm Sunday occurs one week before the Crucifixion. Spong thinks this chronology is wrong, and that the triumphant Palm Sunday coincided with the Feast of Tabernacles in autumn, not in spring. (Sayings cited in the relevant Gospel accounts are associated with the Feast of Tabernacles.) In particular he places the triumphant Palm Sunday several months AFTER the Crucifixion: It is the triumph of the Resurrection which is being celebrated. Simon Peter et al mourned Jesus for some months, then returned to Jerusalem in triumph when they discovered the Resurrection.

(Note that John's Gospel (2:13ff) places the rampage in the Temple immediately after the wedding with wine, early in the ministry rather than a week before the Crucifixion. This further suggests that Mark's chronology is distorted.)

I don't understand what Spong thinks of the fig tree (and he doesn't mention "nodules" as the YouTube does), except that figs WERE in season in the revised Palm Sunday chronology. (But is "not in season" a cryptic clue to the correct chronology? Unlikely?)
 
Swammerdami said:
(But BTW I've never really understood the "Shame of Nakedness", e.g. the story of Ham and Noah. I avoid displaying my own member, but that's for conformity and because it seems pathetic in its non-erect state.)
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When I was in primary school I avoided camps for a while because I heard that sometimes other people could see you having showers. When I had my first manic episode I still had strong inhibitions about being seen in the nude. Later when I was at some markets I was alone with a daughter of my friend's girlfriend. She was maybe 3 and didn't mind being nude. I told her off and she learnt the shame of nakedness.
 
Swammerdami said:
Thomas II said:
The fig tree story is what motivated me to research the Bible...for hidden meaning...I still have a lot of questions...
What is happening in Israel now might be related to this little story after all...
Click to expand...

Bishop Spong discusses the fig tree in some of his books. (He wrote more than a dozen; I've read only one.)

In the synoptic Gospels the triumphant Palm Sunday occurs one week before the Crucifixion. Spong thinks this chronology is wrong, and that the triumphant Palm Sunday coincided with the Feast of Tabernacles in autumn, not in spring. (Sayings cited in the relevant Gospel accounts are associated with the Feast of Tabernacles.) In particular he places the triumphant Palm Sunday several months AFTER the Crucifixion: It is the triumph of the Resurrection which is being celebrated. Simon Peter et al mourned Jesus for some months, then returned to Jerusalem in triumph when they discovered the Resurrection.

(Note that John's Gospel (2:13ff) places the rampage in the Temple immediately after the wedding with wine, early in the ministry rather than a week before the Crucifixion. This further suggests that Mark's chronology is distorted.)

I don't understand what Spong thinks of the fig tree (and he doesn't mention "nodules" as the YouTube does), except that figs WERE in season in the revised Palm Sunday chronology. (But is "not in season" a cryptic clue to the correct chronology? Unlikely?)
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Thomas II said:
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The one thing Jesus had to say about anything culturally analogous to gender transition was Matthew 19:12, in which he said "eunuchs are a thing, let eunuchs be as they are, maybe consider becoming one yourself."

Jesus preached love for the refugee, acceptance of the foreigner, generosity to the poor, forgiveness of debt, treating sex workers like everyone else, and acceptance of the gender-nonconforming.

The modern churches of the US teach hate for the refugee, rejection of the foreigner, enforcement of inescapable debt, 'bootstraps logic', treating sex workers as criminals, rejection of gender-nonconforming persons.

The modern church is as much a church as the DPRK is a democracy for the people.
 
The Law of Moses actually mandated a primitive welfare state, safety net for the poor. You had the right to glean fields when hungry, you could not put your livelyhood up for collateral for a loan, and debts were canceled every 7th year. If you could not pay your debts you could be locked out of your home during the day but had to be allowed back in at night. It really is sad that ancient people saw the wisdom in such things (even other ancient near east societies had similar laws) but we moderns are so smart we have become so dumb.
 
A 600-year-old man with a pronounced alcohol problem. Just who you want for your skipper. "Hold my beer, Shem." (Do Sunday school kids who hear this story get to hear about Noah's supposed age? Makes you wonder. Get 'em when they're young and can be taught nonsense.)
 
Thomas II said:
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The sign makers missed a real stinker in I Corinthians:
"...any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head...For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man was not made from woman, but woman from man."
(I Cor. 11:5-8)
Has anyone told Joyce Meyer or Anne Graham Lotz??
 
If it hadn't already been posted.

Ephesians 5:22-33 - "Wives, be submissive to your own husbands as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head and Savior of the church, which is His body. But as the church submits to Christ, so also let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."
 
DBT said:
If it hadn't already been posted.

Ephesians 5:22-33 - "Wives, be submissive to your own husbands as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head and Savior of the church, which is His body. But as the church submits to Christ, so also let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."
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Is this the "Guess that Movie or TV Line" thread? I'll guess it was spoken by the Jon Hamm character (Sheriff Roy Tillman) in Fargo Season 5.

I'll wait for confirmation from DBT before posting my own challenge.
 
DBT said:
If it hadn't already been posted.

Ephesians 5:22-33 - "Wives, be submissive to your own husbands as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head and Savior of the church, which is His body. But as the church submits to Christ, so also let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."
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A similar part in Ephesians:
Ephesians 6:5-9
5 Slaves, obey your masters here on earth. Respect them and honor them with a heart that is true. Obey them just as you would obey Christ. 6 Don’t obey them only to please them when they are watching. Do it because you are slaves of Christ. Be sure your heart does what God wants. 7 Serve your masters with all your heart. Work as serving the Lord and not as serving people. 8 You know that the Lord will give each person a reward. He will give it to them in keeping with the good they do. It doesn’t matter whether they are a slave or not.

9 Masters, treat your slaves in the same way. When you warn them, don’t be too hard on them. You know that the God who is their Master and yours is in heaven. And he treats everyone the same.
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God, speaking through Paul, is nice in verse 9.
 
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Paul mentions Pontius Pilate exactly once, and that verse confuses me. ("He gave a good testimony before Pontius Pilate" ?)

So I looked at the context and found the whole passage odd. Paul writes "if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content", but apparently owning respectful slaves gives some contentment as well, as we learn in the chapter's very first verse.

Paul argues against arrogance, but the verses I've painted purple ("My way or the high-way") seem a bit arrogant on Paul's part.

Paul's First Epistle to Timothy 6:1-16 said:
All slaves should show full respect for their masters so they will not bring shame on the name of God and his teaching. If the masters are believers, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. Those slaves should work all the harder because their efforts are helping other believers who are well loved. Teach these things, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life. Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions. These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy. Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content. But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things. Pursue righteousness and a godly life, along with faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness. Fight the good fight for the true faith. Hold tightly to the eternal life to which God has called you, which you have declared so well before many witnesses. And I charge you before God, who gives life to all, and before Christ Jesus, who gave a good testimony before Pontius Pilate, that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. For, At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.
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Oof, that underlined verse (6:13) reads a lot better in Koine, but I see why it's a tricky one to translate. If you took it very word for word literally, it comes out like: "and of Christ Jesus that-one-bearing-witness-to before Pontius Pilate the good same-words". The implication is that Jesus, questioned by Pilate, witnessed to that same "gospel" which by Timothy's time was the apocalyptic hope of all Christians. There's an allusion to the previous verse, since the same root word martyron "witness/martyr" in verse 12 is used in the construction of the participle in verse 13 "Christ the one witnessing". My read would be that the message is meant as something like, "you Timothy bore this same message faithfully, that Jesus himself bore to Pilate, and with Christ you'll be rewarded in the coming end times."

It is worth noting that very few scholars see this as a genuine letter of Paul. Unless they're Catholic and can't question the attribution without getting in trouble, of course. These last three, the Pastoral Epistles are letters written to those who are starting to lose hope that Jesus is coming back in their lifetimes.
 

Exodus 34:14
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"Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."

Isn't jealousy a sin, like envy?
 
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