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Liberals are exactly as bad!

 
 
 
Underseer said:
See? The Nazis are the innocent victims and those liberals are the badguys because they inflict violence on people just because they call for the extermination of all Jews, which proves that they are attacking our free speech! [/satire]
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Antifas who engage in political violence are just as bad as any other group who engages in political violence. And the video does not even show the other side engaging in any violence.

Note also that just because Antifas in this case went after a guy with fucking Nazi insignia does not mean they will not go after other groups they disapprove of. They view everybody to the right of them as more or less fascist and fair game. They have a long history in Europe attacking people who are decidedly not Nazis.

I saw an old cartoon in a history textbook once that I can't find. It showed Nazi and communist mobs marching through streets followed by an ambulance with a swastika and hammer and sickle symbol, respectively. The caption read something about each group being asked to supply their own ambulance because of many injuries during their rallies.
 
It seems like the question really boils down to whether you believe there are acceptable justifications for violence. You can't really sort out who is "worse" or "just as bad" until you determine whether there is an acceptable use of force and under what conditions it's necessary.
 
Very rarely do groups like this rise without backing by powerful and monied people. Do we know who are backing these folks derec? Has anyone high up in antifa defected and shared the goods about their backers?
 
BH said:
Very rarely do groups like this rise without backing by powerful and monied people. Do we know who are backing these folks derec? Has anyone high up in antifa defected and shared the goods about their backers?
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Are you saying Antifa doesn't exist? Admittedly, they seem like a joke; complete idiots. They're lefties, after all. But they do exist.

 
Derec said:
Underseer said:
See? The Nazis are the innocent victims and those liberals are the badguys because they inflict violence on people just because they call for the extermination of all Jews, which proves that they are attacking our free speech! [/satire]
Click to expand...
Antifas who engage in political violence are just as bad as any other group who engages in political violence. And the video does not even show the other side engaging in any violence.

Note also that just because Antifas in this case went after a guy with fucking Nazi insignia does not mean they will not go after other groups they disapprove of. They view everybody to the right of them as more or less fascist and fair game. They have a long history in Europe attacking people who are decidedly not Nazis.

I saw an old cartoon in a history textbook once that I can't find. It showed Nazi and communist mobs marching through streets followed by an ambulance with a swastika and hammer and sickle symbol, respectively. The caption read something about each group being asked to supply their own ambulance because of many injuries during their rallies.
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Oh yes, those anti-fascists are terrible, terrible, violent people, unlike those patriotic right wingers who drive cars into crowds of people and beat teachers into the hospital with metal rods. See, someone else punching being wrong makes you not wrong, therefor you are totally justified in defending Nazis with flaccid tu quoque fallacies.

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Trausti said:
BH said:
Very rarely do groups like this rise without backing by powerful and monied people. Do we know who are backing these folks derec? Has anyone high up in antifa defected and shared the goods about their backers?
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Are you saying Antifa doesn't exist? Admittedly, they seem like a joke; complete idiots. They're lefties, after all. But they do exist.

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Oh, yes. Antifa exists. They break windows and sometimes even kick over garbage cans, which is exactly as bad as driving cars into crowds of people, therefore it is totally reasonable to defend Nazis.

But we must be very careful to make a strong distinction between people who defend Nazis with bad logic, and people who are Nazis. Because that is totally different. Like the very important difference between people who defend pedophiles and pedophiles.
 
There are many Nazis but very few Hitlers and the time in which Hitler arose.

Those were extraordinarily bad times. The Great Depression. Germany had lost the war and was hit with huge reparations.

Things were extraordinarily bad.

If that were to happen in the US then a Hitler could easily arise.

For now all we will get are clowns spewing hate with a few dangerous followers.
 
Right wing groups, fascists, PYLs, have never been the movement for peace, love, and understanding. They see these things as weaknesses and leads them to underestimate those who oppose them. They are truly surprised when they face real opposition. When the opposition meets their violence with violence, it's a shock to the system.

There's a fundamental difference which our home grown fascists and supremacists fail to grasp. Non-violent civil disobedience is how the left deals with unjust government practices and policies. It's a way to force government to live up to its principles and ideals. The fascists think they will get the same treatment and this makes them bold. No one wants the right to live up to their principles and ideals. It's a serious mistake on their part.
 
Every year the ninja outfit wearing Black Bloc comes to Seattle. I've seen them on the street. They have homemade weapons and use Molotov Cocktails. They try and provoke police violence.

They used to cause a lot of damage and trouble. The Seattle police developed tactics to limit their actions without excessive force.

Liberals now seem to routinely resort to vigilante mob rule tactics using social media against anyone contrary to an ideology. God forbid you make an offhand remark deemed racist. The thought police is coming from the left not right.

The far left and right are equally harmful.
 
I condemn this act of violence. It is destructive and unjust. I also condemn the publicity it has received and any glorification of real violence. This is stupid.
 
Trausti said:
Are you saying Antifa doesn't exist? Admittedly, they seem like a joke; complete idiots. They're lefties, after all. But they do exist.
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They definitely do exist, and have for decades, but this chick is parody.
 
Underseer said:
Oh yes, those anti-fascists are terrible, terrible, violent people, unlike those patriotic right wingers who drive cars into crowds of people and beat teachers into the hospital with metal rods. See, someone else punching being wrong makes you not wrong, therefor you are totally justified in defending Nazis with flaccid tu quoque fallacies.
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Nobody is defending Nazis. But Nazis being bad guys doesn't make Antifas not the bad guys. You can have two horrible sides be in conflict with one another. Best the rest of us can hope for is that they damage each other enough that they are not a threat to anybody else.

But we must be very careful to make a strong distinction between people who defend Nazis with bad logic, and people who are Nazis. Because that is totally different.
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What would be totally different is you comprehending some English. Nobody is defending Nazis here.

Like the very important difference between people who defend pedophiles and pedophiles.
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What would also be completely different is you not using the word "pedophilia" (I doubt you even now know what it means) in a thread.
 
Derec said:
Nobody is defending Nazis. But Nazis being bad guys doesn't make Antifas not the bad guys. You can have two horrible sides be in conflict with one another. Best the rest of us can hope for is that they damage each other enough that they are not a threat to anybody else.
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Nazis favor genocide, Antifas does not. They are not the same. When one writes "two horrible sides" one is equating one side with the other.
 
laughing dog said:
Nazis favor genocide, Antifas does not. They are not the same. When one writes "two horrible sides" one is equating one side with the other.
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There are degrees of horribleness. Does the victim in the OP case favor genocide? I don't know. But I know that his assailant favors violence against people he disagrees with. And that's horrible. That leads to the gulag.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
Nazis favor genocide, Antifas does not. They are not the same. When one writes "two horrible sides" one is equating one side with the other.
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There are degrees of horribleness. Does the victim in the OP case favor genocide? I don't know. But I know that his assailant favors violence against people he disagrees with.
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As do Nazis. And when one writes "two horrible sides", one is not differentiating between degrees of horribleness.
 
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