Split Is Fetterman's aphasia relevant to his being a Senator?

[Metaphor]

STAFF NOTICE
This thread is a split from

2022 Midterm Elections - Results and Post Mortem

And, we are off. First results are in for 2022. Guam Elects First Republican House Delegate Since 1993 Bellwether or fluke? We shall know soon. Note that the delegate from Guam is non-voting and that other offices, such as governor and the local legislature stayed safely in Democrats' hands.

iidb.org

Focusing on John Fetterman’s stroke symptoms

==============================

Very happy for Fetterman. Would have been too dispiriting if he lost over a disability irrelevant to the job. And really, fuck "Dr." Oz, what a dehumanizing, ugly campaign that fraud ran.

What?

Not being able to follow ordinary speech without seeing it written down is 'irrelevant' to the job of a politician?

Are you serious?

 

[blastula]

Very happy for Fetterman. Would have been too dispiriting if he lost over a disability irrelevant to the job. And really, fuck "Dr." Oz, what a dehumanizing, ugly campaign that fraud ran.

What?

Not being able to follow ordinary speech without seeing it written down is 'irrelevant' to the job of a politician?

Are you serious?

Yes, of course. Why would there be a problem with disabled people using accommodations???

 

[Metaphor]

Very happy for Fetterman. Would have been too dispiriting if he lost over a disability irrelevant to the job. And really, fuck "Dr." Oz, what a dehumanizing, ugly campaign that fraud ran.

What?

Not being able to follow ordinary speech without seeing it written down is 'irrelevant' to the job of a politician?

Are you serious?

Yes, of course. Why would there be a problem with disabled people using accommodations???

Why did you ask a question that has no relationship to what I said?

Fetterman's disability is not irrelevant to the job. If it were irrelevant, he wouldn't need accommodations. Do you know what the business of a Senator includes? Part of it is real-time speech processing of speech other people make in the Senate.

 

[repoman]

Very happy for Fetterman. Would have been too dispiriting if he lost over a disability irrelevant to the job. And really, fuck "Dr." Oz, what a dehumanizing, ugly campaign that fraud ran.

What?

Not being able to follow ordinary speech without seeing it written down is 'irrelevant' to the job of a politician?

Are you serious?

Yes, of course. Why would there be a problem with disabled people using accommodations???

The more important the job, the less something like this should be tolerated.

But that is what you get when there is a scumbag, conman carpetbagger running against a guy who has unfortunately had what should be a disqualifying stroke. Without that stroke, Oz might have been blown out.

Some sort of accommodation should have been made to get a replacement to run in Fetterman's place. Chosen in part at least by Fetterman.

 

[Rhea]

Accommodations make it irrelevant. You may be aware that someone who is deaf can make a fine senator.

Also, he is recovering and it will become less of a problem over time.

 

[Metaphor]

Accommodations make it irrelevant. You may be aware that someone who is deaf can make a fine senator.

Fetterman's problem is not sensory, but cognitive.

Also, he is recovering and it will become less of a problem over time.

That may be, but to describe it as 'irrelevant' is false. It seems to me also speculation without evidence that it will become better over time.

 

[Metaphor]

Since Metaphor doesn't understand what an accommodation is for,

I know what it's for.

You don't understand why what you said was, plainly speaking, ludicrous. A cognitive deficit where you cannot process ordinary speech is plainly relevant to the job of a senator. Whether and how much it can be mitigated with accommodations is a separate question.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

What kind of accommodations should we make should a paraplegic want to be the center for the Lakers?

 

[Metaphor]

Accommodations make it irrelevant. You may be aware that someone who is deaf can make a fine senator.

Fetterman's problem is not sensory, but cognitive.

His doctors said his cognition is fine.

Did you watch Fetterman in the debate? His responses were not the responses of a man whose cognition was fine.

Also, he is recovering and it will become less of a problem over time.

That may be, but to describe it as 'irrelevant' is false. It seems to me also speculation without evidence that it will become better over time.

His doctors also said he will get better over time.

I hope he does. Because he is a Senator now and Senators need to be able to follow conversations and debates in real-time.

 

[Metaphor]

Accommodations make it irrelevant. You may be aware that someone who is deaf can make a fine senator.

Fetterman's problem is not sensory, but cognitive.

Same effect, though.

No, it's not.

A person who was hard of hearing or deaf would need to rely on either a hearing aid (in which case I would say the accommodation mitigates the deficit 100%), or, if in the Senate, rely on a device that generates real-time captions/subtitles for everything that is said in close to real time. I don't know if the American Senate is set up for that, nor do I know that the automated tech is there (I've had Microsoft Teams meetings with good real-time captioning but it isn't anything I would rely on as an official transcript).

But Fetterman has said he needs captioning to follow conversations, even with a single questioner (e.g. when he was interviewed). And, he needs things written down because of his cognitive/processing deficits, not a sensory deficit. Sometimes cognitive deficits are very narrow and specific, but often they are general. Whatever the deficit is that is causing him difficulty in processing speech might also cause other problems.

 

[Copernicus]

How a person responds while under pressure in a debate and how that person decides to cast a vote on a bill are two different things. Fetterman will continue to recover and improve, and he will likely make an effective senator for the state of Pennsylvania, which he knows very well. Oz would just have been another vote for MAGA obstructionism and collecting money from rich Republican donors rather than TV audiences.

 

[Metaphor]

How a person responds while under pressure in a debate and how that person decides to cast a vote on a bill are two different things.

It isn't just televised debates, which are certainly high stress events for any participant (except perhaps seasoned politicians who have perfected their talking points).

When a bill is debated in the Senate, multiple speakers speak for it and against it. If you can't understand /process what is being said to you, that is a deficit in your ability to be a Senator.

Fetterman needed captioning when he had a one-on-one interview.

I started with one response - that it was ludicrous to say a demonstrated cognitive deficit had 'no impact' on his ability to be a Senator. I can't help but feel I am getting hyperpartisan pushback against what seems like an obvious statement.

Fetterman will continue to recover and improve, and he will likely make an effective senator for the state of Pennsylvania, which he knows very well. Oz would just have been another vote for MAGA obstructionism and collecting money from rich Republican donors rather than TV audiences.

I said nothing about Oz.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It likely will impact his ability as a Senator, compared to if he had not had a stroke.

Doesn’t mean he’ll be a bad Senator or worse than the alternative.

Some Senators are exhibiting cognitive decline simply from age and may not necessarily participate in debates as well as they could before or even as well as Fetterman may, even having had a stroke.

Not exactly sure what you’re arguing about.

 

[Patooka]

If being shit in a debate and stumbling over sentences actually disqualifies you in US politics Katie Porter would probably be the only one left in the House and Senate. My partner is an occupational therapist and my Dad had a stroke in 2011. I can find plenty of people who have had strokes who can tell you to go fuck yourself if you're going to peddle your ablest crap.

 

[Metaphor]

It likely will impact his ability as a Senator, compared to if he had not had a stroke.

Doesn’t mean he’ll be a bad Senator or worse than the alternative.

Some Senators are exhibiting cognitive decline simply from age and may not necessarily participate in debates as well as they could before or even as well as Fetterman may, even having had a stroke.

Not exactly sure what you’re arguing about.

I'm making the what I thought was obvious assertion that a cognitive deficit of the kind Fetterman has will negatively affect his Senate duties, challenging blastula's statement:

Would have been too dispiriting if he lost over a disability irrelevant to the job.

The disability is not irrelevant.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If being shit in a debate and stumbling over sentences actually disqualifies you in US politics Katie Porter would probably be the only one left in the House and Senate. My partner is an occupational therapist and my Dad had a stroke in 2011. I can find plenty of people who have had strokes who can tell you to go fuck yourself if you're going to peddle your ablest crap.

My own father had multiple strokes and died from one in 2013. I have seen exactly what strokes can do. He never told me to go "fuck myself" though.

It astonishes me - truly - that it is considered 'ableist' to say a cognitive deficit that negatively affects the ability to follow and process speech will negatively impact performance as a Senator.

You can't dismiss reality by labelling everything you don't like an '-ism'.

I tend to agree with you. And Herschel Walker’s brain damage and personality disorders will negatively affect his ability to perform as a Senator effectively. And Trump’s narcissistic personality disorder obviously impacted his performance as President.

 

[Patooka]

It astonishes me - truly - that it is considered 'ableist' to say a cognitive deficit that negatively affects the ability to follow and process speech will negatively impact performance as a Senator.

Fetterman can perform the tasks a senator does and, more importantly, he was fucking voted in. Not only is you premise completely asinine, that you think Fetterman is unique with being bad at answering questions, speaking or debating shows how truely ignorant you are of contemporary US politics.

 

[Metaphor]

It astonishes me - truly - that it is considered 'ableist' to say a cognitive deficit that negatively affects the ability to follow and process speech will negatively impact performance as a Senator.

Fetterman can perform the tasks a senator does and, more importantly, he was fucking voted in. Not only is you premise completely asinine, that you think Fetterman is unique with being bad at answering questions, speaking or debating shows how truely ignorant you are of contemporary US politics.

I never said any of that. This is not even a straw man of what I said. It's complete fantasy.

 

[Copernicus]

How a person responds while under pressure in a debate and how that person decides to cast a vote on a bill are two different things.

It isn't just televised debates, which are certainly high stress events for any participant (except perhaps seasoned politicians who have perfected their talking points).

When a bill is debated in the Senate, multiple speakers speak for it and against it. If you can't understand /process what is being said to you, that is a deficit in your ability to be a Senator.

You have a seriously outmoded idea of how business is conducted in the US Congress, where most seats often sit empty while speeches are given. Back in the 18th century, that idea made much more sense. Nowadays, most business is conducted independently of public debates on the floor, which those in office use primarily for public posturing. Fetterman can give such speeches, and he can read the ones that his colleagues give and have published in the public record.

Fetterman needed captioning when he had a one-on-one interview.

I started with one response - that it was ludicrous to say a demonstrated cognitive deficit had 'no impact' on his ability to be a Senator. I can't help but feel I am getting hyperpartisan pushback against what seems like an obvious statement.

Fetterman will continue to recover and improve, and he will likely make an effective senator for the state of Pennsylvania, which he knows very well. Oz would just have been another vote for MAGA obstructionism and collecting money from rich Republican donors rather than TV audiences.

I said nothing about Oz.

I know that you said nothing about Oz, but he was the only practical alternative choice to Fetterman. As for his so-called "cognitive deficit", all we know is that he suffered brain damage from the stroke. Many current politicians have suffered strokes and other causes of brain damage--Biden being an excellent example--and have fully recovered from them. If Fetterman's doctors think that he will recover, then I would say that they probably know a good deal more about the kind of brain damage he suffered and his ability to recover from it. In a relatively young man--Fetterman is 53 years old--the brain is still flexible enough to wire around damaged areas. His problems are fairly mild disturbances in perception and motor skills. Those will improve over time, unless he suffers another stroke.

 

[Metaphor]

How a person responds while under pressure in a debate and how that person decides to cast a vote on a bill are two different things.

It isn't just televised debates, which are certainly high stress events for any participant (except perhaps seasoned politicians who have perfected their talking points).

When a bill is debated in the Senate, multiple speakers speak for it and against it. If you can't understand /process what is being said to you, that is a deficit in your ability to be a Senator.

You have a seriously outmoded idea of how business is conducted in the US Congress, where most seats often sit empty while speeches are given. Back in the 18th century, that idea made much more sense. Nowadays, most business is conducted independently of public debates on the floor, which those in office use primarily for public posturing. Fetterman can give such speeches, and he can read the ones that his colleagues give and have published in the public record.

Understanding debate on the Senate floor was an example. Really, processing speech is a fundamental aspect of almost any job.

Fetterman needed captioning when he had a one-on-one interview.

I started with one response - that it was ludicrous to say a demonstrated cognitive deficit had 'no impact' on his ability to be a Senator. I can't help but feel I am getting hyperpartisan pushback against what seems like an obvious statement.

Fetterman will continue to recover and improve, and he will likely make an effective senator for the state of Pennsylvania, which he knows very well. Oz would just have been another vote for MAGA obstructionism and collecting money from rich Republican donors rather than TV audiences.

I said nothing about Oz.

I know that you said nothing about Oz, but he was the only practical alternative choice to Fetterman. As for his so-called "cognitive deficit", all we know is that he suffered brain damage from the stroke.

Calling it 'so-called' and putting it in inverted commas doesn't change the reality.