Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

[ideologyhunter]

Better yet, find a hobby. Petunias are real.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

There you go, speaking in Old English terms. It aooears to give peole a sense of authority and righiusness.

If Jesus freed you from religion why do you call yourself a Gnostic Christian Bishop? You appear ciontradictory.

A quote from Confucius. "Wise is the wise man who gets beyond words of wisdom'.

True freedom is when religion and all that encompasses becomes irrelevant to you.

If you go by the gospels Jesus said if you are a slave be a good one, and a credit to yiuyr master.

He was not about liberation in our modern sense, according to the gospels.

When you start arguing Jesus this and Jesus that you are arguing based on interpretation and filling in the blanks. It is akll illusory and mind created. That might be a Buddhist view, we create our own angels demons, gods, heavens, and hells.

Therre are no contemporaneus accounts of Jesus. Appently he did not refister with the Romans Aany kind of threat. Josephus mentined Jesus but years laterm and like Herodutus as a commentator had no first hand knowledge.

All communcation was delayed and subject to embellishment. Herodtotus the Greek historian was called Herodotus The Liar’ because he reported things he never saw personaly and passed it off as first hand accounts. He took hearsay and presented it as first hand accounts. That was the norm. There were no journalis and biographers.

Your view of Jesus is your own creation. That may be a Buddhist view. We create our own angels, demons, gods, heavens, and hells in our minds. The idea is to get beyond the self delusions and see reality as it is.


True freedom is when religion and all that encompasses becomes irrelevant to you.

If you go by the gospels Jesus said if you are a slave be a good one, and a credit to yiuyr master.

He was not about liberation in our modern sense, according to the gospels.

When you start arguing Jesus this and Jesus that you are arguing based on interpretation and filling in the blanks. It is akll illusory and mind created. That might be a Buddhist view, we create our own angels demons, gods, heavens, and hells.

Therre are no contemporaneus accounts of Jesus. Appently he did not refister with the ROmaNS AS ANY KND OF THREAT. jOSEPHUS MENTIONS HIM, BUT THAT WAS LATER AFTER THE FACT.

aLL COUUNCATION WAS SUBJECTIVE. tHWERE WRER NO JORNALISTS OR BIOGTAPHERS.

yOUR VIEW OF jESUS IS YOUR OWN CREATION NOT BASED O ANY FACTUAL INFORMATION.

I would say it was a combination of both.

As an esoteric ecumenist religion, we are duty to seek the best rules and laws to live by.

As to factual information in any religion, --- other than Gnostic Christianity, that tends to deal only with what can be know as a certainty through gnosis, knowledge or reason, --- there is none.

""He was not about liberation in our modern sense, according to the gospels.""

I see it differently.

For instance, when he said that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath.

I extrapolate from that that he would also say that religions are made for man and not man for religions.

There are a number of such instances.

Do you see that as liberating us from institutionalized religions?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Better yet, find a hobby. Petunias are real.

Atheists are getting know for having better morals than the religious.

They have demonstrated this by starting up atheist churches.

If you have a clue as to why, then come back and apologise as I am trying to do exactly what atheists are doing.

Hint.
Golden Rule and harm reduction to non-believers and believers oppressed by their own religions.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why does it matter if accepting Jesus as messiah is a sin?

The idea that people need messiahs presupposes that they sinned. Pray to Jesus and you can be absolved, regardless of whatever heinous acts you may have committed.

If the religious do not see that sinning to be saved from sin is immoral and downright stupid, then what can I say.

You do have a point that if the theist does not care if he sins, then he cannot say he respects or believes in the god he is abusing.

Regards
DL

 

[Elixir]

Remember, his genocidal, homophobic, and misogynous tendencies are balanced by his racism, egomania problem, and endorsement of chattel slavery.

Balanced???

I would say you are adding to the evil side and no balance is possible.

God I hope you were not putting your examples of evil on the evil side of the balance.

Regards
DL

You must know the reference was to the uniformly evil nature of religious tenets in general.

 

[steve_bank]

The same tired old demonize people to feel superior.'

'You are evil', 'I am a purveyor of f truth and righteousness'.

We have heard it all before. I expect in Gnostic Christianity there is the playing of the martyr and oppressed.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Remember, his genocidal, homophobic, and misogynous tendencies are balanced by his racism, egomania problem, and endorsement of chattel slavery.

Balanced???

I would say you are adding to the evil side and no balance is possible.

God I hope you were not putting your examples of evil on the evil side of the balance.

Regards
DL

You must know the reference was to the uniformly evil nature of religious tenets in general.

I know how a balance works and though I would correct our friend.

As to religions in general, they all have a good and evil side. Just as atheism has. The god religions have just become useless because their tribal affiliations are no longer relevant to a modernized society with social safety nets.

You might remember that when religions first began, they were the only social safety net.

That is why no ancient sage ever badmouthed slavery.

I generally accentuate religious evil, but I do not forget that they were thought of differently at different points in time.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The same tired old demonize people to feel superior.'

'You are evil', 'I am a purveyor of f truth and righteousness'.

We have heard it all before. I expect in Gnostic Christianity there is the playing of the martyr and oppressed.

Actually, the opposite is true.

Seems you do not know much about us. Not surprising. Enlightened Christians who switch are rare.

Regards
DL

 

[Treedbear]

...
The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.
...

I seem to recall it as "When a man was a child he spoke as a child, understood as a child, thought as a child. But when he became a man he put away childish things. For now he sees through a glass and through dark sayings. Now he knows in part. But when he comes before the face of God he will not know in part, but even as he is taught by Him."

It also says to "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." In other words, to listen to what they have to say.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

...
The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.
...

I seem to recall it as "When a man was a child he spoke as a child, understood as a child, thought as a child. But when he became a man he put away childish things. For now he sees through a glass and through dark sayings. Now he knows in part. But when he comes before the face of God he will not know in part, but even as he is taught by Him."

It also says to "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." In other words, to listen to what they have to say.

Thanks much for getting the quote.

On Children.

Sometimes their simplicity trumps our more complex thinking.

I tried that for a situation I was pondering, and the advice had me break some laws, but it was the right thing to do.

I nearly went to jail for18 years.

The law did not want to hear my case and threw it out, after their police charged me.

I fought the law and the law won, but they cheated.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

The bible says a lot of thing. There are 613 dictates or commends that can be pulled out and are on the net. Some bizarre.

Jesus in the gospels clearly upholds the retraction on fornication and divorce. It is one of the few things clearly said by Jesus in the gospels.

Do Gnostic Christians hold to te fornication and divorce restrictions?

Jesus of the gospels is a conservative Jew.

 

[steve_bank]

The same tired old demonize people to feel superior.'

'You are evil', 'I am a purveyor of f truth and righteousness'.

We have heard it all before. I expect in Gnostic Christianity there is the playing of the martyr and oppressed.

Actually, the opposite is true.

Seems you do not know much about us. Not surprising. Enlightened Christians who switch are rare.

Regards
DL

h
I only know what you say. Typical teist diversion and rationalization. You fit the profile of the typical theist posters.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The bible says a lot of thing. There are 613 dictates or commends that can be pulled out and are on the net. Some bizarre.

Jesus in the gospels clearly upholds the retraction on fornication and divorce. It is one of the few things clearly said by Jesus in the gospels.

Do Gnostic Christians hold to te fornication and divorce restrictions?

Jesus of the gospels is a conservative Jew.

First.

I disagree with Jesus retracting divorce. He endorced with his, "in the beginning it was not so".

In the beginning it was let no man put asunder. No divorce for anyone. Just like in heaven.

Matthew 19:8-10 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." 10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

In Gnostic Christianity, love between souls is put above any and all other qualities or faults, be they physical, mental or sexual.

To do as homophobes do and put sex above love, we see as a defect in character and abnormal. It is anti survival of the fittest and they are stupidly complaining about less competition.

Homophobia is un-natural.

So is misogyny but that is another topic.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The same tired old demonize people to feel superior.'

'You are evil', 'I am a purveyor of f truth and righteousness'.

We have heard it all before. I expect in Gnostic Christianity there is the playing of the martyr and oppressed.

Actually, the opposite is true.

Seems you do not know much about us. Not surprising. Enlightened Christians who switch are rare.

Regards
DL

h
I only know what you say. Typical teist diversion and rationalization. You fit the profile of the typical theist posters.

Keep the psychobabble to a minimum if you want to be friends.

I did think you did not know anything about Gnostic Christians.

Thanks for confirming.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

WEeare not here to be friends. The thread is about regions rationalization and I quetion what you say and question what you believe as a follower of Jesus.. Do yiu actualy practice all of what he said?

The meek shall inherit the Earth. If yiour struck, turn the other cheek.

My question is about Christian Gnostic morality derived from faith.

Jesus in the gospels said clearly divorce and fornication are not permitted. What does a Gnostic Christian Bishop say on this moral issue? If you can not respond with other than a typical rationalization then I would say you are just another Christian who picks and chooses what to use from scripture. The Chinese menu approach to bibliv cal morality, pick one from column n A and one from column B...


Evangelicals pick the prohibition against gays from Leviticus and ignore the dietery rules. Dietary rules orthodox Jews still maintain. Keeping kosher. Jesus never renounced Judaism.

Christians rationalize away the biblical diet rules.

Some Christian sects do not allow divorce of fornication. Some are very strict like Jehovah Witness. I knew someone who was expelled for his lifestyle.

In contraindication to the alleged words of Jesus, do Gnostic Christians allow sex outside of marriage? A direct yes-no question without equivocation, bishop. If tat is what you really are.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

WEeare not here to be friends. The thread is about regions rationalization and I quetion what you say and question what you believe as a follower of Jesus.. Do yiu actualy practice all of what he said?

The Gnostic Christian esoteric Jesus? Absolutely.

The Roman created Jesus, son of a demiurge, Yahweh, no way. He is demonstrably immoral.

That is why Gnostic Christians are known as the only good Christians.

The meek shall inherit the Earth. If yiour struck, turn the other cheek.

The first likely has happened and turning the other cheek is to insult the hitter. You likely applied the reverse.

My question is about Christian Gnostic morality derived from faith.

It is not.

Faith without facts, as I tell Christians, is for fools.

Gnosis and logos trumps faith and fools all the time.

Jesus in the gospels said clearly divorce and fornication are not permitted. What does a Gnostic Christian Bishop say on this moral issue?

I say, welcome to the future.

Here, we intelligently put love above a marriage certificate and sex.

FMPOV, love is what should be satisfied ahead of past mistakes or other considerations.

If you can not respond with other than a typical rationalization then I would say you are just another Christian who picks and chooses what to use from scripture. The Chinese menu approach to bibliv cal morality, pick one from column n A and one from column B...


Evangelicals pick the prohibition against gays from Leviticus and ignore the dietery rules. Dietary rules orthodox Jews still maintain. Keeping kosher. Jesus never renounced Judaism.

Christians rationalize away the biblical diet rules.

Some Christian sects do not allow divorce of fornication. Some are very strict like Jehovah Witness. I knew someone who was expelled for his lifestyle.

In contraindication to the alleged words of Jesus, do Gnostic Christians allow sex outside of marriage? A direct yes-no question without equivocation, bishop. If tat is what you really are.

No. My vows and promise included sexual faithfulness.

But I can only speak for what my wife and I expect.

More importantly, is whether or not I have the right to interfere with the happiness levels of others by criticizing who they love or might love?

You might have an open type marriage.

Who am I to tell you and your wife who to socialize with?

Children need protection in sexual matters a lot more than adults.

There is where I start to get in the face of perpetrators.

Regards
DL

 

[Politesse]

Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL

If you're asking seriously, my answer would be no. His murder was certainly a crime, but no living person is responsible for that crime. If, as you claim, personal responsibility is important, then I should think it would be foolish to accept responsibility for a homicide one did not, in fact, commit.

Simply accepting Jesus as a Messiah - a term with more than one meaning, I note - does not mean endorsing his death necessarily, either. Though I do think people carry things past the point of good taste in celebrating his death in many cases. Good Friday was not, in my opinion, actually a very good day, and I've never been sympathetic to the idea that it is or ever was. We should be ashamed, not celebratory, of that aspect of human nature which inevitably discards and sometimes destroys our prophets.

 

[steve_bank]

Okay Gnosytc fair enogh you are very clear.

So, other forms of Christians are fools? The same old religious-philosophical attitude of superiority. As you said previously, Gnotics represent truth, at least as you see it. Just like everybody else.
r
Adhering to writings regardless of whether Jesus was god or not IS morality.

As the saying goes morality is a set of rules, ethics is how you adhere to the rules.

To be honest you just do not appear different than other Christians who have come and gone on the thread.

I have listened to Christians on TV and on radio argue over which is the 'real' Christian.

All that matters is what you do, not what you believe.

I know there is a mystical Christian tradition outside of mainstream Christianity. Over the centuries they were supressed by the Catholics.

More akin to acetisism and eastern proctices.

Thee is a group who lives on the top of a rock in Egypt.

Another open group of monks that has a community that fishes, farms, and makes icons for sale. Popular tourist spot.

I am well aware of the multitude of variations and of mystic traditions.

Modern Chrians do not appear to have anyi uns derstandings what it all means, blind followers and practicers of rituals.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin?

It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat.

I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin.

If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved?

Regards
DL

If you're asking seriously, my answer would be no. His murder was certainly a crime, but no living person is responsible for that crime. If, as you claim, personal responsibility is important, then I should think it would be foolish to accept responsibility for a homicide one did not, in fact, commit.

Simply accepting Jesus as a Messiah - a term with more than one meaning, I note - does not mean endorsing his death necessarily, either. Though I do think people carry things past the point of good taste in celebrating his death in many cases. Good Friday was not, in my opinion, actually a very good day, and I've never been sympathetic to the idea that it is or ever was. We should be ashamed, not celebratory, of that aspect of human nature which inevitably discards and sometimes destroys our prophets.

I was not talking about Jesus and crime.

I was talking the abdication of the punishment due to ones self and putting it on a Messiah.

Jesus said we should pick up our crosses/burdens and follow him. Not dump it all on him the way Christians are doing.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Okay Gnosytc fair enogh you are very clear.

Thanks.

So, other forms of Christians are fools?

The supernatural believers are that for sure, but I talk about their shit morals more than the stupidity of their thinking.

They cannot hide behind a supernatural shield when morals are under discussion.

The same old religious-philosophical attitude of superiority.

Yes. The same thing you just showed. I guess reciprocity is not fair play where you crawl. It is where I live.

As you said previously, Gnotics represent truth, at least as you see it. Just like everybody else.
r

Including you.

Unlike Christians, I do not run from moral discussions.

Adhering to writings regardless of whether Jesus was god or not IS morality.

A fools unqualified statement, given the contradictions put into the more than 1 Jesus in the bible.

As the saying goes morality is a set of rules, ethics is how you adhere to the rules.

To be honest you just do not appear different than other Christians who have come and gone on the thread.

They venerate genocide, homophobia and misogyny.

We fight those and if you are too morally short sighted to see the huge difference, you may as well be a Christian.


I have listened to Christians on TV and on radio argue over which is the 'real' Christian.

All that matters is what you do, not what you believe.

I know there is a mystical Christian tradition outside of mainstream Christianity. Over the centuries they were supressed by the Catholics.

More akin to acetisism and eastern proctices.

Thee is a group who lives on the top of a rock in Egypt.

Another open group of monks that has a community that fishes, farms, and makes icons for sale. Popular tourist spot.

I am well aware of the multitude of variations and of mystic traditions.

Modern Chrians do not appear to have anyi uns derstandings what it all means, blind followers and practicers of rituals.

Did I mention that we are perpetual seekers?

Regards
DL