Hate is on the rise around the world

[TomC]

Sit down buddy.

If you have nothing to say, it's generally better to say nothing, so that people aren't alerted to the fact that you are incapable of defending your position.

Exactly what is it that distinguishes TS's post in your mind from the almost identical GN post that you "Like"d 34 minutes later?

Their track records.
I commonly disagree with GN, but he does usually explain what he means. TS doesn't often do that, he usually makes unsupported assertions then responds to discussion with dumbassery.
Tom

Your experience doesn't match mine. If you plow through the thread I linked in post #12 you'll see countless examples of GN making unsupported assertions and responding to discussion with dumbassery.

Compare his posts to the posts of
@TSwizzle

That's the comparison I am making.

Maybe your experience is different from mine. But I meant what I said in the post you quoted.
Tom

 

[Bomb#20]

Sit down buddy.

If you have nothing to say, it's generally better to say nothing, so that people aren't alerted to the fact that you are incapable of defending your position.

Exactly what is it that distinguishes TS's post in your mind from the almost identical GN post that you "Like"d 34 minutes later?

I didn't like it, I merely agreed with it;

The emoji you attached was literally the "Like" emoji. And that you agreed with it is an accurate answer to my question, thank you. "Double standard" is the usual explanation when a leftist appears inconsistent.

And the difference is that GN was responding to an attempt to derail discussion into a longstanding hobbyhorse topic, while TS's post was an attempt to avoid further discussion of something he himself raised.

On what planet is bringing up the rise in hate among Islamists a derail in a thread on "Hate is on the rise around the world"?!?

Oh, right. Double standard. Duh.

 

[Bomb#20]

Fake conversation for purpose of clarification:
* Timmy says "3+3=6"
* Bobby says "1+4=6"
* Teacher says "Timmy's right, Bobby's wrong"
* Bob's uncle shows up and complains that Bobby is criticized unfairly: "He gave the same answer, 6, as Timmy gave."

We just saw a variation of this. ...
It's the difference between reality and racist fantasy. Re-read the comment by Bobby's uncle (your metaphier) at the beginning of this post if you really don't get it.

So let me get this straight -- your argument is that the difference between what TS said and what GN said was that in the case of GN saying "Shut the <expletive deleted> up.", he was factually correct?!? Are you really sure that's the metaphor you want to go with?

 

[Derec]

The shooter has been arrested. He is identified only as a white, redneck, Trump supporting Christian nationalist.

Lying for the cause again, Elixir?

"Two unknown suspects with covered faces got out of the vehicle and started firing multiple shots at the vehicle," police said in a statement.
[...]
The details of the attack emerged through security footage that was shared on social media.
It shows a car pulling up and blocking the vehicle in which Hendricks was travelling as it was pulling away from the curb. According to police, the imam was in the back seat.
The angle of CCTV footage reveals what happened from one side of the road - an assailant jumps out of a car, runs to the ambushed vehicle and shoots repeatedly through the back passenger window.

World's 'first openly gay imam' shot dead in South Africa

 

[Swammerdami]

So let me get this straight -- your argument is that the difference between what TS said and what GN said was that in the case of GN saying "Shut the <expletive deleted> up.", he was factually correct?!? Are you really sure that's the metaphor you want to go with?

Wrong. I don't know if you really misunderstood the point or are just pretending to misunderstand. Try again if you wish.

 

[Bomb#20]

Democrats are twice as likely as Republicans are to report having ended a friendship over a political disagreement (20 percent vs. 10 percent). Political liberals are also far more likely than conservatives are to say they are no longer friends with someone due to political differences (28 percent vs. 10 percent, respectively).

Possibly because Republicans are a lot more detached (at least IME). ... The notion that there could be a threat from fascism - or anything on the right - just flat out doesn't register.

And this distinguishes them from progressives, how? It looks to me like the notion that there could be a threat from socialism - or anything on the left - just flat out doesn't register.

At least the conservatives have identified The Enemy Within®!

And? Take a look at PD. About 90% of the threads are devoted to progressives having identified The Enemy Within®!

I have picked out a few well intended (I believe) republicans on FB with whom I cultivate a speaking relationship, and bite my tongue when tempted to tell them they have been fed full of bull..., or to point out factual errors.

Good for you -- people need to get out of their echo chambers. My Republican friends tell me they're biting their tongues constantly too when tempted to tell Democrats they've been fed bull and point out factual errors. It's not worth losing a friend over. Leftists have a well-earned reputation for cutting friends off for heresy.

 

[Derec]

I will add more to this later about the rising levels of hatred toward minorities later,

Why should only hatred against "minorities" matter?

but I'll start out by mentioning one of the most brutal murders against a transperson that I've ever heard about. It happened in New York and five suspects have been arrested. Imo, some of it is due to the political demonization of minorities of all kinds.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/15/us/sam-nordquist-trans-man-murder/index.html

I agree that this is a horrible crime, and that the assailants need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
However, there is no indication that the motive had anything to do with the "political demonization of minorities of all kinds", as no motive has been identified.

Also, I am not a native speaker and might thus be wrong, but would "who" not be correct here?

Five people have been arrested in New York and charged in connection with the disappearance and murder of a 24-year-old transgender man from Minnesota, whom police say was tortured and abused for weeks before his death.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why so much hatred? How did this happen?

I don’t know, maybe you should ask this guy?

A Syrian asylum seeker who viciously stabbed a 14-year-old boy to death and knifed several others was seen 'laughing' as he went on a rampage through an Austrian city. The 23-year-old man, named locally as Ahmad G., allegedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before launching into a vicious attack just before 4pm on Saturday afternoon. Spine-chilling images captured the suspect was seen grinning at police officers while they surrounded him with weapons during his arrest in Villach, near the borders with Italy and Slovenia.

Daily Mail

Ahhh, yes, alt right tabloid media is a big contributor. Good point.

 

[Derec]

I've also read that people at the US border who are asking for asylum are often being treated harshly, being sent back immediately before they even have a chance to be heard. If I can find that article, I'll add it.

This is a very controversial issue, and one that we have discussed before. But briefly, the asylum system is broken. It was meant to facilitate helping people who are being persecuted in their countries of origin. However, illegal migrants figured out they can stay in target counties indefinitely by claiming "asylum". The large number of people is gumming up the works, and even when rejected, it is difficult to deport these people.
I think that even in cases of genuine asylum seekers, most people should be helped by countries in the region, especially when there are cultural, linguistic etc. links between them. This would also cut down on people who want to go to US, or EU, for the benefits and/or money-making opportunities.

The European Ombudsman said Frontex needed clear guidelines for assessing maritime https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/22133/why-do-migrants-from-pakistan-head-to-europe and issuing mayday relays for boats in distress and called for an independent commission of inquiry into deaths in the Mediterranean Sea.

I am all for rescuing people in genuine trouble on the high seas. However, these boast deliberately get into trouble, call for a "rescue" so they get a free trip to Europe. Groups like MSF are not rescuers, they are smugglers facilitating illegal migration. These people should be rescued, yes, but then sent back. That would remove the incentive to make these dangerous trips in the first place. As long as these "rescued" migrants keep getting into Europe this way, more and more millions from Africa, from Bangladesh, from Pakistan etc. will keep trying. Vast majority are not refugees or asylum seekers, they just want more money.

‘If I die, I die’: Pakistan's death-trap route to Europe

“People in our village, and our families, we have seen so many young men attempting to migrate to Europe and successfully repaying the loan,” says Mirza, who himself loaned his nephew 200,000 rupees ($700).
The calculus for those who loan money is simple. Giving cash to somebody to build a house carries a high risk that amid the poverty of Bandli, the recipient won’t be able to repay it.
By contrast, lending money to a young man attempting to reach Europe is a far more promising prospect. Once a villager reaches Europe, he is indebted to those who helped him get there - and often is expected to help the family members of loan-givers also make the journey out of Pakistan.
[...]“Despite all the risks associated with making Dunki, people are willing to put their lives at stake. If they succeed, not only does it bring prosperity to them, but it also helps earn them social clout in the neighbourhood,” Rana says. “People consider it a matter of pride that their family member made it to Europe.”
[...]
A few hundred metres away from Touqeer’s run-down house in Bandli is a two-storey villa, with a Toyota sedan parked outside. Muhammad Yousuf’s house is at an elevation from where the Line of Control, the effective border between Pakistan and India, is visible, with radars marking the tense landscape.
A stream of guests visits the 55-year-old throughout the day, with commiserations. Later in the day, Yousuf sits alone in his drawing room, on a plush faux leather sofa, in a sky-blue shalwar kameez. He starts speaking gently, but then breaks down, sobbing.
What brought his family wealth is today the reason for his grief.
Yousuf owns a crockery business in the village. But it was only when two of his sons settled in Italy, after taking the Dunki route to migrate over the past decade, that the family’s living standards in Bandli improved.
“With my sons sending money from Italy, I was able to build the house, and my own business was doing well, and things were comfortable for us,” Yousuf says. The sons own a grocery store in southern Italy.

Asylum seekers, my ass!

Abuzar decided to change that by trying to reach Europe through Libya, like at least a dozen young men and boys from Talib Sahb who had successfully made that trip in recent months, says Pervaiz. “For the village here, it's been like going to Italy is like going to Lahore. It's been made so easy. They become refugees there, are allowed to work and they send money home.”

"It's easy" because "they become refugees". I.e. they lie about being refugees, and it is almost impossible to deport migrants once that claim is made, no matter how bogus.

But as Pakistan’s economic conditions continue to worsen, for a vast number of men — and they are always men — the lure of Europe far surpasses any risks that they may have to face. Moving within Pakistan, or even Middle Eastern countries, is not considered good enough any more, even if they don’t have to put their lives in peril.
As they see neighbours build new houses, buy big cars and climb the social ladder because members of their families have made it to Europe, the dreams of the next wave of Dunki travellers take firm root — even after losing friends and fellow villagers to boats capsizing in the Mediterranean.

Anything but Europe is "not good enough" because they want to "climb the social ladder", "build new houses" and "buy big cars". Was the asylum system made to be abused like this? Is it really "hatred" to be against this?

 

[Bomb#20]

The thread wasn't meant to be about people simply disliking each other for no apparent reason or for verbally attacking each other online over politics. It was about hate crimes or constantly being discriminated against or verbally attacked primarily in person because of one's ethnicity, belief, sexual orientation, gender ID and things like that.

Why do you believe those are two different things? That's like believing honor killings are a different kind of thing from the constant casual violence against women that's endemic in the Middle East. The sister-murderer and the sister-puncher are not two different species; the former is simply the inevitable three-sigma outlier on the "normal distribution" of culturally-trained misogyny that created a hundred times as many of the latter. The typical hate-crime perpetrator does what he does for exactly the same reason that appears to be the reason you trumped up a baseless charge of "hate" against the so-called "gender-critical" people in the Gender Roles thread last year: because they're your outgroup and you've been heavily exposed to cultural influences that have taught you that you don't have to try to be fair to outgroup members and that when you're unfair to them your ingroup will applaud you for it. A hate-criminal is the inevitable three-sigma outlier of you. So if you don't want hate crime, change the culture -- cultivate a habit of being scrupulously fair to your outgroup, and call people out when they fail to live up to that standard. Think globally, act locally.

 

[Derec]

Or, better yet, we could ask the guys who use THAT single case to impugn Muslims or Arabs generally but remain stubbornly silent when presented with cases like Timothy McVeigh or Marjorie Taylor Greene.

That your examples are a terrorist attack from over 30 years ago and a backbencher congresswoman says a lot.
Why are Leftists so adamant to ignore the fact that so much hatred these days comes from Muslims? It's anathema even to acknowledge.

I mean even when it comes to why so many Arabs backed Trump, Gaza was just one of the reasons. Another was that they did not like Democrats socially liberal policies, esp. around LGBT issues.
A Muslim Mayor Endorses Trump, and a City of Immigrants Finds Itself Undone

[Hamtramck Mayor Amer Ghalib] told The Times that he began turning toward Republicans when, as mayor, he faced bitter division in his city over social issues, mainly over L.G.B.T.Q. rights.
He noted that in 2022, he stood behind conservative Muslim parents who complained about L.G.B.T.Q. books in school libraries. The books, he said, were part of the “gay agenda.”
The Pride flag, Mr. Ghalib said, needed to be taken down in the name of neutrality, so the city could avoid being forced to fly banners from hate groups.

 

[Derec]

Shut the fuck up.

This response exemplifies the level of discourse that I have come to expect from the Left for every criticism of Islam and Islamization.

But it will not do. Take this incident in Athens.
Two Israelis stabbed in Athens; Gaza-born suspect arrested

I think the same goes for the increase in anti-LGBT incidents in Europe, as mention by SoHy in post #6. Disproportionate number of this has been driven by the influx of Muslims into Europe.
Example: Oslo attacks: Pride protesters defy Norway police warnings

 

[TSwizzle]

Why so much hatred? How did this happen?

I don’t know, maybe you should ask this guy?

A Syrian asylum seeker who viciously stabbed a 14-year-old boy to death and knifed several others was seen 'laughing' as he went on a rampage through an Austrian city. The 23-year-old man, named locally as Ahmad G., allegedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before launching into a vicious attack just before 4pm on Saturday afternoon. Spine-chilling images captured the suspect was seen grinning at police officers while they surrounded him with weapons during his arrest in Villach, near the borders with Italy and Slovenia.

Daily Mail

Ahhh, yes, alt right tabloid media is a big contributor. Good point.

If you don’t want to sully your browser with the Daily Mail you can always read about the islamic attack on the leftist, progressive BBC.

BBC

Even Teh Gruaniad covered it.

 

[Derec]

I didn't like it, I merely agreed with it; And the difference is that GN was responding to an attempt to derail

It wasn't an attempt to derail anything. In a thread about hate crimes, I contributed by talking about hate crimes.

Are we only allowed to talk about these matters when there is whitey to blame?

 

[laughing dog]

I didn't like it, I merely agreed with it; And the difference is that GN was responding to an attempt to derail

It wasn't an attempt to derail anything. In a thread about hate crimes, I contributed by talking about hate crimes.

Are we only allowed to talk about these matters when there is whitey to blame?

I’ve been told that is a hateful racist term.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why so much hatred? How did this happen?

I don’t know, maybe you should ask this guy?

A Syrian asylum seeker who viciously stabbed a 14-year-old boy to death and knifed several others was seen 'laughing' as he went on a rampage through an Austrian city. The 23-year-old man, named locally as Ahmad G., allegedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before launching into a vicious attack just before 4pm on Saturday afternoon. Spine-chilling images captured the suspect was seen grinning at police officers while they surrounded him with weapons during his arrest in Villach, near the borders with Italy and Slovenia.

Daily Mail

Ahhh, yes, alt right tabloid media is a big contributor. Good point.

If you don’t want to sully your browser with the Daily Mail you can always read about the islamic attack on the leftist, progressive BBC.

BBC

Even Teh Gruaniad covered it.

The problem is I'm getting old. So I remember Xians blowing up other Xians in England. I remember Xians murdering children in a daycare in Oklahoma City. I remember a Xian bombing the Olympics in Atlanta. Africa is rife of Xians and Muslims murdering each other. And Muslims be murdering other Muslims.

Muslims don't have a monopoly on hate or terror. The alt-right tripe you keep polluting this web board with wants you to think that they do.

 

[unapologetic]

We can blame it on people like Trump in the US, but why is it happening in so many other parts of the world?

Do you see a rise in hatred in China or Russia?
I strongly suspect Chinese or Russian hacktivists of destabilizing rivels, spreading intolerance.

"Ending friendships over political disagreements occurs more among liberal and Democratic-leaning Americans.

I find that surprising. But... I have to admit I do not socialize with sheeple (especially is-lame-icks) or stupid people (conservatives).
All my friends are smarter than me. (or at least better educated) And never talk religion.

simply defining disagreement with themselves as hatred.

I only see christians doing this.

Is it really "hatred" to be against this?

Is it really justified to be against this?

--------------------------------------------
Q:
Is the Daily Mail owned by Rupert Murdock?

 

[TSwizzle]

Muslims don't have a monopoly on hate or terror.

I never said they did.

The alt-right tripe you keep polluting this web board with wants you to think that they do.

I understand. You only want hear about “hate” when it is whitey.

Carry on.

 

[Bomb#20]

The Swizzster had to go all the way to Austria -- home of the famous moustached man -- to come up with an anecdote to impugn Arabs generally.

I take it you're talking about this post:

Why so much hatred? How did this happen?

I don’t know, maybe you should ask this guy?

A Syrian asylum seeker who viciously stabbed a 14-year-old boy to death and knifed several others was seen 'laughing' as he went on a rampage through an Austrian city. The 23-year-old man, named locally as Ahmad G., allegedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before launching into a vicious attack just before 4pm on Saturday afternoon. Spine-chilling images captured the suspect was seen grinning at police officers while they surrounded him with weapons during his arrest in Villach, near the borders with Italy and Slovenia.

Daily Mail

Where do you see the Swizzster impugning Arabs generally? He impugned one specific Arab who very much deserves to be impugned. Why do you think it's okay to trump up a non-fact-based accusation against your political opponent?

 

[southernhybrid]

The thread wasn't meant to be about people simply disliking each other for no apparent reason or for verbally attacking each other online over politics.

Sure I'm just pissed a certain someone decided to make it into a thread about hating the evil Muslims.

My reply wasn't meant to be directed at you. I understand your frustration. The idea of the thread was simply to try to understand why there have been so many hate crimes, discrimination, harassment etc. In real life around the world, it's almost always directed toward minorities, regardless if it's based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender etc. I'm not just thinking of prejudice but taking that bias to an extreme, where the person or group is attacked or discriminated against in the extreme.

I did try to do a little research earlier today regarding why people commit hate crimes. I read that some people feel they have been hurt or attacked by a particular group of people, so they take out their anger on members of that out group. It still doesn't really justify or explain why some people take their hatred to extremes, but it helped me understand the issue a little. I won't give examples because I'm pretty sure I will be misunderstood. In fact, I already regret starting this thread as the purpose has already gone in directions that were never intended. Sure, sometimes a minority will attack a member of the dominant group, but that's a different topic. This was supposed be about the US, Europe and other so called Democratic countries that have at least in modern times been open and accepting to a diverse population. Too bad very few are interested in that topic.