Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Gospel]

MHO, scrap it and start fresh. Honestly, almost anything would be better than a thread built on a front-loaded narrative. Whether I agree with that narrative or not is beside the point, the issue is that it shapes the engagement from the outset, which is clearly what's happening here.

 

[bilby]

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

That's true, but to be fair, Hamas would be too, if only they had the capability.

If Iran wanted to, Israel could have been "dealt with". The Iranian theocracy needs Israel as a "villain". So they really can't wipe out Israel.

If Iran tried it, Tehran would be a smoking radioactive crater. Israel has nuclear weapons, so they can't really wipe out israel.

 

[TomC]

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

That's true, but to be fair, Hamas would be too, if only they had the capability.

If Iran wanted to, Israel could have been "dealt with". The Iranian theocracy needs Israel as a "villain". So they really can't wipe out Israel.

If Iran tried it, Tehran would be a smoking radioactive crater. Israel has nuclear weapons, so they can't really wipe out israel.

Unsurprisingly, Tehran wants nukes too.

And since we Americans have trashed any soft power we might have built on the Obama plan, there's not really a damned thing we can do about it.
Tom

 

[DrZoidberg]

Given that literally no conflict in world history has ever been resolved to the equal satisfaction of both/all combatants

Mo Mowlam managed it in Northern Ireland, though I have no idea how. That conflict looked as entrenched, unsolvable, and intractible as the one between Israel and Palestine; until it didn't.

A big difference between NI and Gaza is that both sides (in the ME) have those who want the extinction of the other. It is extremely hard to end a conflicit when either side seems to want to make the other disappear, one way or another.
NI never had that. They had idiots, fools and knaves but never those who sole reason for existence was the elimination of the other.

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

Netanyahu attempted to displace the Gazans into Egypt, permanently. However, I'm not daft (enough) to suggest that Netanyahu represents the entire or strong majority of the "Israeli side".

That was just one of many suggested solutions to the conflict. Netanyahu isn't on a sacred mission to remove the Palestinians. Its pretty clear that he's laser focused on peace and safety for Israelis. The Palestinians who are Israeli citizens are not a problem. So he leaves them alone.

I now have had a Jewish Israeli and a Palestinian Israeli in my house for a day. There’s been lots of jokes about the other. Jokes both think are very funny. Both have explained about their own sides problems. Which they are both very aware of. Neither of them accused the other side of anything.

Its been a very educational and light hearted day. And we managed to fill a truck with stuff for an art project.

Now we're off to the Swedish woods. Depending on my reception I will maybe be off line for the next three weeks.

 

[Gospel]

Given that literally no conflict in world history has ever been resolved to the equal satisfaction of both/all combatants

Mo Mowlam managed it in Northern Ireland, though I have no idea how. That conflict looked as entrenched, unsolvable, and intractible as the one between Israel and Palestine; until it didn't.

A big difference between NI and Gaza is that both sides (in the ME) have those who want the extinction of the other. It is extremely hard to end a conflicit when either side seems to want to make the other disappear, one way or another.
NI never had that. They had idiots, fools and knaves but never those who sole reason for existence was the elimination of the other.

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

Netanyahu attempted to displace the Gazans into Egypt, permanently. However, I'm not daft (enough) to suggest that Netanyahu represents the entire or strong majority of the "Israeli side".

That was just one of many suggested solutions to the conflict. Netanyahu isn't on a sacred mission to remove the Palestinians. Its pretty clear that he's laser focused on peace and safety for Israelis. The Palestinians who are Israeli citizens are not a problem. So he leaves them alone.

I now have had a Jewish Israeli and a Palestinian Israeli in my house for a day. There’s been lots of jokes about the other. Jokes both think are very funny. Both have explained about their own sides problems. Which they are both very aware of. Neither of them accused the other side of anything.

Its been a very educational and light hearted day. And we managed to fill a truck with stuff for an art project.

Now we're off to the Swedish woods. Depending on my reception I will maybe be off line for the next three weeks.

Sounds great. I’m guessing the conversation went smoothly because you didn’t poison the well by preloading it with accusations of Hamas propaganda.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

That's true, but to be fair, Hamas would be too, if only they had the capability.

If Iran wanted to, Israel could have been "dealt with". The Iranian theocracy needs Israel as a "villain". So they really can't wipe out Israel.

If Iran tried it, Tehran would be a smoking radioactive crater. Israel has nuclear weapons, so they can't really wipe out israel.

Unsurprisingly, Tehran wants nukes too.

1) Tehran had enough nuclear material to make a bomb, I think maybe ten. They hadn't.
2) Why create a bomb? See North Korea. It helps protect from regime change for despots.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Only one side is trying to exterminate the other in the Israel Palestine conflict

Netanyahu attempted to displace the Gazans into Egypt, permanently. However, I'm not daft (enough) to suggest that Netanyahu represents the entire or strong majority of the "Israeli side".

That was just one of many suggested solutions to the conflict.

Mass displacement is a war crime. It isn't extermination, but it is a war crime. He tried, Egypt saw it coming.

Netanyahu isn't on a sacred mission to remove the Palestinians. Its pretty clear that he's laser focused on peace and safety for Israelis.

What he thinks is peace and safety for Israel. Netanyahu is a radical. Radicals rarely understand how to obtain peace and safety. They see right through might. Military might didn't take Jordan and Egypt out of the equation when it came to violence against Israel, shrewd diplomacy did. Diplomacy that Netanyahu is incapable of.

 

[Derec]

Shrewd diplomacy that followed military might. 1967 defeat wasn't enough, as they attacked and tried to exterminate Israel again in 1973. They were defeated through military might. Only then, after being defeated repeatedly though military might were they willing to seek peace.

 

[ZiprHead]

Israeli Settlers Kill American Citizen in Occupied West Bank, Family Says

Sayfollah Musallet was visiting his family in the village of Al-Mazra'a ash-Sharqiya when settlers allegedly beat him unconscious and blocked an ambulance from reaching him for hours.

zeteo.com

Israeli settlers brutalized an American, beating him unconscious and blocking an ambulance from reaching him, according to the victim’s family. The young Palestinian-American was pronounced dead by the time he arrived at a hospital.

Sayfollah Musallet, who was in his 20s, was visiting his family in the Palestinian town of Al-Mazra'a ash-Sharqiya. Two of his cousins, Fatmah Muhammad and another, granted anonymity due to safety concerns, say he had arrived in June. Born in Florida, Musallat grew up in the town of Port Charlotte.

The Israeli military is reportedly investigating the killing.

The State Department and the Israeli military did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

 

[laughing dog]

Wanna bet nothing happens to those peace-loving settlers?

Notice I did not use the incident (which happens multiple times a day) to either promote or justify the bombing of the settlements to eliminate this threat.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wanna bet nothing happens to those peace-loving settlers?

Notice I did not use the incident (which happens multiple times a day) to either promote or justify the bombing of the settlements to eliminate this threat.

Nah. They'll get a slap on the wrist because the guy was a US citizen.

If he was an actual Palestinian Israeli then nothing would happen.

 

[Gospel]

It’s no secret America has a long, troubling history of neglecting its non-white citizens, from the Tuskegee syphilis experiments to the federal response after Hurricane Katrina. And even when white Americans are harmed abroad, like Rachel Corrie, crushed by an Israeli bulldozer while protesting the demolition of Palestinian homes, or Furkan Dogan, a 19-year-old U.S. citizen killed in the 2010 Gaza flotilla raid, justice often takes a back seat to politics, especially when the ally in question is Israel. Turns out, supporting Palestinians is an 'at your own risk' thing for Americans.

 

[Derec]

And even when white Americans are harmed abroad, like Rachel Corrie, crushed by an Israeli bulldozer while protesting the demolition of Palestinian homes,

Those buildings were demolished because buildings close to the border with Egypt were used to hide tunnel entrances. Rachel Corrie was also rabidly anti-Israel and anti-America.

In any case, Rachel Corrie death was due to misadventure - the bulldozer driver did not see her behind the mound of rubble. Note also that these bulldozers have limited visibility due to bulletproof modifications. Still, it reminds me of this exchange from HHGTTG.

“Some factual information for you. Have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?”
“How much?” said Arthur.
“None at all,” said Mr. Prosser

or Furkan Dogan, a 19-year-old U.S. citizen killed in the 2010 Gaza flotilla raid,

He was technically born in the US, but he lived in his native Turkey since he was 2. He also sounded like a fanatic.

It is the last hours to martyrdom, insha'Allah. I am wondering if there is a more beautiful thing. The more beautiful thing is only my mother, but I'm not sure. The comparison is very difficult. Martyrdom or my mother?

It sounds like he planned to get himself killed.

justice often takes a back seat to politics, especially when the ally in question is Israel. Turns out, supporting Palestinians is an 'at your own risk' thing for Americans.

Inserting yourself into a conflict always carries some risk.
And "justice" does not necessarily mean that Israel is at fault.

 

[Derec]

Israeli Settlers Kill American Citizen in Occupied West Bank, Family Says

Sayfollah Musallet was visiting his family in the village of Al-Mazra'a ash-Sharqiya when settlers allegedly beat him unconscious and blocked an ambulance from reaching him for hours.

zeteo.com

Israeli settlers brutalized an American, beating him unconscious and blocking an ambulance from reaching him, according to the victim’s family. The young Palestinian-American was pronounced dead by the time he arrived at a hospital.

If it happened like this, those responsible should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But "according to the victim's family" means we are getting only one side of the story. And Zeteo is Mahdi Hassan's outfit. He is totally anti-Israel, so this is hardly an unbiased source on this matter.

 

[laughing dog]

And even when white Americans are harmed abroad, like Rachel Corrie, crushed by an Israeli bulldozer while protesting the demolition of Palestinian homes,

Those buildings were demolished because buildings close to the border with Egypt were used to hide tunnel entrances. Rachel Corrie was also rabidly anti-Israel and anti-America.

And that explains her death because….?

In any case, Rachel Corrie death was due to misadventure - the bulldozer driver did not see her behind the mound of rubble. Note also that these bulldozers have limited visibility due to bulletproof modifications.

One would think limited visibility would heighten vigilance and precaution, especially with human beings protesting.

or Furkan Dogan, a 19-year-old U.S. citizen killed in the 2010 Gaza flotilla raid,

He was technically born in the US, but he lived in his native Turkey since he was 2. He also sounded like a fanatic.

It is the last hours to martyrdom, insha'Allah. I am wondering if there is a more beautiful thing. The more beautiful thing is only my mother, but I'm not sure. The comparison is very difficult. Martyrdom or my mother?

It sounds like he planned to get himself killed.

So the IDF should oblige because…?

 

[TV and credit cards]

So now the Israelis are bombing Damascus because they're so worried about the Druze. What kind of Barbosian like excuses are there for these Israeli acts of aggression?

Netanyahu is hellbent on making sure Syria doesn't stand a chance.

Following calls in Israel to help Druze in Syria, scores of Israeli Druze broke through the border fence on Wednesday, linking up with Druze on the Syrian side, a Reuters witness said.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the Israeli military was working to save the Druze and urged Israeli Druze citizens not to cross the border. The Israeli military said it was working to safely return civilians who had crossed.
U.S. Syria envoy Tom Barrack, who has praised Syria's new rulers and declared in May that peace was possible between Syria and Israel, condemned violence against civilians in Sweida.
"All parties must step back and engage in meaningful dialogue that leads to a lasting ceasefire. Perpetrators need to be held accountable," he said.

When the US envoy puts out this type of statement it means our side is wrong but we can't flat out say it.

And I'm sure the Israeli Druze had a hell of a time breaking through the border fence. They must have overwhelmed whatever Israeli security forces there were. Twenty dollars and my left nut says there was little if any resistance in crossing the border.

 

[laughing dog]

The UN reports that the proportion of children suffering from malnutrition has almost doubled since March (start of the blockade).

 

[Derec]

So now the Israelis are bombing Damascus because they're so worried about the Druze. What kind of Barbosian like excuses are there for these Israeli acts of aggression?

What kind of excuses are there for the Admiral General Jolani to persecute the Druze in Syria? That's what started all this.

 

[TV and credit cards]

So now the Israelis are bombing Damascus because they're so worried about the Druze. What kind of Barbosian like excuses are there for these Israeli acts of aggression?

What kind of excuses are there for the Admiral General Jolani to persecute the Druze in Syria? That's what started all this.

That's suppose to be justification for Israel sticking their nose in? That's some Putin level stuff.

 

[Arctish]

The historic lands of the Druze people go from southern Syria through Galilee. If you think things are messy now, just wait until their rightwingers come up with a Charter that says Druze have a Right to rule their ancient homeland and start kicking non-Druze out.