For Christians:If god exists why must you prove it?

[Rhea]

Now you're morphing the thread into a justification of why atheists feel the need to engage in AvT hostility.

On the contrary, it is the same statement, merely clarifying the ways in which Christian incessantly seek to "prove" their religion.

Like, "my religion is true! Isn't it on the wall of the courthouse?"
And "My religion is true! Aren't there multitudes of us? (counting all the ones that I will later claim are not True Christians™, of course)"


The OP says why must you incessantly try to prove your god?
And the follow up posts are why must you incessantly try to prove your god by doing this? And This?

Because you're all like, "wot. We don't. You're the puppet."

 

[steve_bank]

Indeed. A defensive measure of understanding the cult that seeks to continue to oppress us.

If atheists became evangelocal handing out books on the steet and approching people abot atheism and preaching actve efforts to deconvert Christians all hell would break out.

 

[steve_bank]

liom

You cab dance all you like. The question is why try to convert atheists?

You can convert to Judaism The Anerucanized Mulims I have known do not seekto convert.

Without exception when I am interacting with Christians over an extended period I end up with a bible in my face metaphoricaly and actually.

A preacher came up beside me at my facility was I was sinng down,.. Came up behind me and lodly said 'How are you doing'. I turned around and asked if we had met and noticed the bible in hand. He said he was just saying hello, and i said no your are not.

It is commin around here to have self apouinted ministers who come in the facility straeing a conversation on Jesus.

I have had it. I always tried to be respectful. Now I abruptly and forcldully say no thanks. When they continue tp engae and start to lay the Christian make you feel gyulty trip I reat until they get the message.

So, what drives Christians to think they have the right to get in peoples lives?

 

[Tigers!]

Everyone on the planet has heard about your religion. If you weren’t bringing it up in our lives in our laws and in our workplaces, no one would ask you for proof. We wouldn’t care,

Everyone on the planet has heard about your lack of religion. If you weren’t bringing it up in our lives, in our laws and in our workplaces, no one would ask you for lack of proof.
I notice that it doesn't stop you going on and on about it.

 

[Tigers!]

If you are an non-christian why do you keep asking for proof?.

But really, though, wouldn't YOU?

Someone says that unicorns live in their shoes, wouldn't you ask to see?

No probably not. As long as their unicorns don't leave droppings for me to step in they are free to have said unicorns in their shoes.

 

[Tigers!]

Look at the word count in post #34
Decide for yourselves who is putting the most energy into the argumentum ad nauseam claimed by the Op.

How many words have been written and spoken by Christians over the last 20 years repeating the same tired cliches?

Jesus loves me. Jesus is god. God loves me.gays are evil, Jesus loves me... Jesus Jesus Jesus save me. It is a cult. A cult that is driven by a need to prove itself and draw others into the beliefs.

The thing is right now if Christianity disappeared we would not miss it. I expect most of us ngae theists as a matter of understanding the cult that makes us a convenient foil and focal point.

Where would you be without an atheist to confront in an epic battle in god's name? You are on a fantasy adventure. It powers your life. We do not need that.

If I did not have to confront atheists then that would be one less thing in my life to concern myself about.

i have met many atheists who atheism powers their life. Its not just believers.

 

[Keith&Co.]

How the fuck does atheism power your life?

 

[Lion IRC]

How the fuck does atheism power your life?

^This^
Nuff said.
#drop_the_mic

 

[Jobar]

If you believe god exists and have faith in an afterlife, why must you prove it and why get hostile to those who reject it?

The existence of those who do not share the faith puts the faith to question. Other beliefs or points of view imply other possibilities, that one's article of faith may not be true, posing a threat to the faith.

I see the constant evangelizing of most monotheistic beliefs as clear evidence of the deep cognitive dissonance such beliefs engender. If there is no physical basis for such belief, yet believers are taught from childhood that there *must* be a God, then the only confirmation of the belief is words, from other people. So to be entirely comfortable, they must attempt to get all people to say the same words- espouse the same beliefs. The need to constantly reinforce and reaffirm the beliefs, declaring all alternative interpretations anathema and heresy, the subtle or blatant discouraging of difficult or unanswerable questions- all those are exactly what one would expect as consequences of the essentially unverifiable nature of God. Believers have no wordless ground for their belief, and so they must be constantly talking about God, or else he goes away.

 

[Jobar]

In fairness, some of us unbelievers also talk about god(s) quite a lot. For myself, I find the concept an interesting way to approach the largest questions about reality; and given how immersed most of our societies are in some form of theism, defending its antithesis is an effective way of finding interlocutors. Though given how emotionally powerful the topic is to many believers, it's potentially quite dangerous, and only the relative anonymity provided by the internet has made it so popular over the past couple of decades, I think. Still, my years of arguing about Christianity, and religion in general, have taught me quite a lot on a wide range of subjects, and no doubt have made me a more interesting and convincing debater.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I see the constant evangelizing of most monotheistic beliefs as clear evidence of the deep cognitive dissonance such beliefs engender.

Depends. If they're raised in the faith they practice, that's different than converts.

I see converts evangelize veganism, running, NON SMOKING, vaping, flat earth, and wife swapping with the same fervor as the newly fill-in-the-sect Christain. I think that is more of a basic human need to validate the choice one's made, to go all in on a new thing. Not necessarily a dissonance.

 

[steve_bank]

Look at the word count in post #34
Decide for yourselves who is putting the most energy into the argumentum ad nauseam claimed by the Op.

How many words have been written and spoken by Christians over the last 20 years repeating the same tired cliches?

Jesus loves me. Jesus is god. God loves me.gays are evil, Jesus loves me... Jesus Jesus Jesus save me. It is a cult. A cult that is driven by a need to prove itself and draw others into the beliefs.

The thing is right now if Christianity disappeared we would not miss it. I expect most of us ngae theists as a matter of understanding the cult that makes us a convenient foil and focal point.

Where would you be without an atheist to confront in an epic battle in god's name? You are on a fantasy adventure. It powers your life. We do not need that.

If I did not have to confront atheists then that would be one less thing in my life to concern myself about.

i have met many atheists who atheism powers their life. Its not just believers.

Thank you for an early morning laugh. Some atheists are driven, some even extreme. in contesting religion. But there is no atheist ideology. It is a response to an artificial dichotomy created by Christians. You do not believe therefore you are atheist,. I do not believe in unicorns, so I am an aunicrnits?

Atheism is not an ideology. It is not a belief system. It is not a moral code. It is a rejection of Christian assertions.

The atheist response is purely reactionary, a response to the Christian intrusion into our lives and the presumption of the right to get in our faces. Christians can be like used car salesmen.

I have listened to a lot of TV and radio evengelism. I hear it comming from bible meetings in the facility I am in. Rage, anger, hostility directed at unbelievers.


According to Christians there is something inherently wrong with us, It is that to which we respond.

So, the question is what drives Christians to evangelize, convert, and look down on others? The older I get the more ugly Christianity appears.

 

[Angry Floof]

In fairness, some of us unbelievers also talk about god(s) quite a lot. For myself, I find the concept an interesting way to approach the largest questions about reality; and given how immersed most of our societies are in some form of theism, defending its antithesis is an effective way of finding interlocutors.

My thoughts exactly. Metaphorically, gods are useful and represent real human things that we don't have a full language for yet. I think 'demon' is a particularly useful metaphor.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

How the fuck does atheism power your life?

^This^
Nuff said.
#drop_the_mic

Yes, thank you for understanding the point of atheism. Not believing in gods powers one's life about as much as not believing in unicorns does. It says that the god beliefs are false and doesn't offer up any alternatives to fill whatever void it is that theists claim is there with that absence.

That doesn't count as some kind of slam dunk against atheism, it's just a basic understanding of the term.

 

[Angry Floof]

How the fuck does atheism power your life?

^This^
Nuff said.
#drop_the_mic

What Tom Sawyer said. My atheism isn't my identity. It's not a thought in my head until the subject comes up. People who identify so strongly with their ideological group as the most sacred basis of self identity often have a hard time understanding that.

Tell them they are fine without the fear of not believing the correct thoughts about a tyrannical authority figure and they won't believe you, and might even believe you to be under magical evil influence. Attacking the belief is attacking them personally.

But within a belief system that strongly suggests... ahem... I mean indoctrinates the idea that humans are filth and evil or at least some kind of ignorant evil magnet judged as unworthy of anything good like peace and comfort and supernatural love, what else can you reasonably expect from people conditioned to such beliefs, some for their whole lives?

Group identity is a powerful thing.

 

[Keith&Co.]

How the fuck does atheism power your life?

^This^
Nuff said.
#drop_the_mic

Yes, thank you for understanding the point of atheism.

Does Lion actually understand that ^This^ means complete agreement with the ideas expressed by the above (or quoted) post?

 

[Keith&Co.]

My atheism isn't my identity. It's not a thought in my head until the subject comes up. People who identify so strongly with their ideological group as the most sacred basis of self identity often have a hard time understanding that.

Yeah, I mean, I do not have to question my stance on birth control, marijuana, rock music, crystal meth, putting children in cages, racism, or putting parking across three spaces does or does not jive with my atheism. I can determine my moral stance on something without wondering if the nobody in the sky, or nobody's chosen representatives on Earth, have offered prepackaged guidance on the issue. I don't have to keep my atheist devotions in mind before making plans for the weekend or holiday.

It only comes to mind in reaction to something someone else brings up. If there are no interesting threads on faith on the board, I can still read the humor and politics.

 

[Angry Floof]

Yes, thank you for understanding the point of atheism.

Does Lion actually understand that ^This^ means complete agreement with the ideas expressed by the above (or quoted) post?

Is the underlying assumption that atheism is "not powerful" compared to religious ideological drivers? Because that's not actually an insult. Not allowing a group ideological identity to drive your world view is not a weakness. Group identity is always going to be an influence in every human being's world view and behavior, not not everyone is uncomfortable with uncertainty or with our humanness (and each other's).

There are people who won't even examine the idea of humanness being the most important group identity, and all others being secondary or contextual, not the epitome of who and what you are.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, thank you for understanding the point of atheism.

Does Lion actually understand that ^This^ means complete agreement with the ideas expressed by the above (or quoted) post?

Is the underlying assumption that atheism is "not powerful" compared to religious ideological drivers? Because that's not actually an insult. Not allowing a group ideological identity to drive your world view is not a weakness. Group identity is always going to be an influence in every human being's world view and behavior, not not everyone is uncomfortable with uncertainty or with our humanness (and each other's).

There are people who won't even examine the idea of humanness being the most important group identity, and all others being secondary or contextual, not the epitome of who and what you are.

That seems to be a common assumption. The theist position tends to be that their worldview offers something and when you take that away and replace it with an alternative worldview which offers nothing at all, you lose out. That completely overlooks the fact that atheists still end up getting all of those same somethings, but it's just that our atheism isn't involved in how we get it.

 

[Lion IRC]

Yes, thank you for understanding the point of atheism.

Does Lion actually understand that ^This^ means complete agreement with the ideas expressed by the above (or quoted) post?

Yep. I do.

Tigers refers us to purpose-driven atheists who put so much effort into their counter-apologetic proselytising for atheism, that one assumes it's an existential thingy. Such folks can't call themselves 'non stamp collectors' They go to global atheism conferences, promote atheology and actually claim atheism as their worldview. (Michel Onfray, Alain de Botton, PZ Myers, Peter Boghossian...who was that A plusser lady?)

But I fully agree with Keith&Co that atheism doesn't "power your life". It disempowers you.
It reduces your carbon-based, spontaneously occurring, temporary life on this mundane, microscopic spec of dirt called Earth, to (Camusian) absurdity. Atheism = Myth of Sisyphus.

15-20 years ago there was a vociferously strong atheist who happened to be the Undernet IRC channel manager of #Atheism. His username was AlkKey. Over time his atheism (non-stamp collecting) became more and more tentative. He was slowly converting to theism, then monotheism, then biblical theism, then he finally landed on Christianity. Asked why he left atheism, he told many of us that the main reason was because atheism was too limiting - it inhibited his free thought. It was boring and pointless. And he felt that we (humans) were innately, inherently, spiritually, full of more potential than what atheism imposes.