England headed for A Caliphate

[Bomb#20]

I take my marching orders from George Soros and Greta,

In case I run into one or the other, which one told you to call me a redcap?

 

[TSwizzle]

It’s all kicking off in France as the islamoleftists tear French cities apart.

Violent student unrest intensified across France on Friday as riot police clashed with teenagers in several cities, roughly 400 high schools remained shuttered and authorities said some 2,000 people had been arrested since the protests began — while the government increasingly blamed the country’s hard left.

News

Perhaps France will fall first after all.

 

[Emily Lake]

You know, how you do when you white knight for members of your little faith group.

The "faith group" of... (checks notes)... people who appropriately apply logic and reason.

You mean the group that includes someone who conflates Muslim with Islamist? LMAO.

What portion of Muslims in the world right now would you estimate to be Islamists?

What portion of the Muslims who have entered Europe, Canada, the US, in the last decade would you estimate to be Islamists?

What portion of the unusually high portion of military aged single male Muslims who have entered Europe, Canada, the US, in the last decade would you estimate to be Islamists?

These questions are examples of appropriate applications of logic and reason of examining conflation (saying the concepts are the same)of Muslim with Islamist? Give me a break.

My answer to your questions is I have no clue nor care.

I'm negotiating.

Islamists are a subset of muslims, correct? Referring to Islamists as muslims is accurate, but it can be misleading depending on context.

If, say, 20% of the recent influx are islamists, then I would offer that generalizing to muslims one in five times would be within the bounds of understood language - especially when the caveat that he's talking about islamists, not all muslims has been reiterated multiple times.

You make generalizations on the assumption that your readers understand that you don't literally mean every one. All of us do, it's how language works.

 

[Elixir]

I have no idea if he was an Islamist since we talked about engineering, not politics.

Thank you. That’s my point.

78% of Muslims in the UK are in favor of criminally prosecuting people for cartoons of Muhammad.

Seriously?!? I’m supposed to give a flying fuck about some mythical population thousands of miles from my country, that harbors irrational religious beliefs? Yawn.

I’m more concerned the 87% of rabid Trumpsuckers who want to destroy American democracy, and their oblivious enablers like Derec. Those people can, and it not restrained, will, destroy the USA.

I’d prefer if most Americans were upset about rabid trumpsuckers, as THEY are an ACTUAL IMMINENT EXISTENTIAL THREAT to the country of my home.*
Break out the accusations of jingoism!
I promise I’ll get back in the Othering game as soon as the immediate threat is quashed.

* it is somewhat encouraging that being upset about trump and his suckers, is the apparent trend, Derec and his ilk notwithstanding.

 

[Elixir]

Perhaps France will fall first after all.

Fall? To … France?

“The government blamed the hard left” and idiots assume that the government is troothin’. This is exactly the case right here in my country of birth, where right wing kleptocrats are having a field day at everyone else’s expense.

No fucking chance that it’s true that French high school classes have run-down facilities, are overcrowded, underfunded and inept at delivering an effective education, or that complaining about such things can ever yield positive change …

Letting such conditions persist IS “the fall” of France, Swiz. But thanks for raising the issue.

 

[ZiprHead]

Perhaps France will fall first after all.

Fall? To … France?

“The government blamed the hard left” and idiots assume that the government is troothin’. This is exactly the case right here in my country of birth, where right wing kleptocrats are having a field day at everyone else’s expense.

No fucking chance that it’s true that French high school classes have run-down facilities, are overcrowded, underfunded and inept at delivering an effective education, or that complaining about such things can ever yield positive change …

Letting such conditions persist IS “the fall” of France, Swiz. But thanks for raising the issue.

Since when is protesting about school inadequacies left wing? They also mentioned antisemitism as left wing.

 

[Elixir]

Since when is protesting about school inadequacies left wing?

Right wing authoritarians label all forms of protest as left wing. It’s not a reflex, it’s thought out.

 

[Emily Lake]

Seriously?!? I’m supposed to give a flying fuck about some mythical population thousands of miles from my country, that harbors irrational religious beliefs? Yawn.

Well, you maybe should care about the potential for one of the best armed nuclear powers in the European theatre to fall under the control of religious fundamentalists with the known intent of converting the world by force. It doesn't have to be the only thing you think about, and it doesn't have to be something you think has a high likelihood of happening... but pretending that it's impossible and just made up is kind of irresponsible.

Anyway... what makes you believe that muslims in the US have a materially different view?

Look, I know it's been done to death by Hollywood, but sleeper cells are a real thing. They're not something made up for TV, that you can just brush off as fiction. You might think it's paranoid, fine. It's not like I'm losing sleep over it or anything, it doesn't affect my relationships and interactions with the large number of middle eastern and african colleagues that I have. But seriously, the cold war wasn't that long ago. It's like a whole bunch of you completely forgot that even though we never came to outright war with the USSR, we had many conflicts. And there was a LOT of clandestine intelligence work going on, a lot of spies, and a lot of actual for-realsies Soviet sleeper cells.

It's also a tactic that we absolutely know islamic terrorist organizations use. We 100% know that they will send people in to become regular people until everything is in place for an attack.

So on the one hand, obviously not everyone of middle-eastern descent is a risk - some of them aren't even muslim in the first place! And a frightfully large number of people don't know the difference between a muslim and a sikh. Chances are only a relatively small portion of the people coming in are a risk, and the vast majority are people we'd love to have at our potlucks. Obviously not every muslim. It shouldn't even have to be said more than once... maybe twice for the older folks among us

But it's negligent to not consider the damage that can be done by a small number of people. Pretending that the recent surge of entrants who fit the demographic and religious profile of known terrorist groups in the past endangers a huge number of innocent people.

 

[laughing dog]

You know, how you do when you white knight for members of your little faith group.

The "faith group" of... (checks notes)... people who appropriately apply logic and reason.

You mean the group that includes someone who conflates Muslim with Islamist? LMAO.

What portion of Muslims in the world right now would you estimate to be Islamists?

What portion of the Muslims who have entered Europe, Canada, the US, in the last decade would you estimate to be Islamists?

What portion of the unusually high portion of military aged single male Muslims who have entered Europe, Canada, the US, in the last decade would you estimate to be Islamists?

These questions are examples of appropriate applications of logic and reason of examining conflation (saying the concepts are the same)of Muslim with Islamist? Give me a break.

My answer to your questions is I have no clue nor care.

I'm negotiating.

Islamists are a subset of muslims, correct? Referring to Islamists as muslims is accurate, but it can be misleading depending on context.

If, say, 20% of the recent influx are islamists, then I would offer that generalizing to muslims one in five times would be within the bounds of understood language - especially when the caveat that he's talking about islamists, not all muslims has been reiterated multiple times.

You make generalizations on the assumption that your readers understand that you don't literally mean every one. All of us do, it's how language works.

Offering excuses for someone who knows better is cute but unconvincing especially when “muslim” is shorter to write than “Islamist”. BTW, I am not referring to Bomb#20.

 

[TSwizzle]

There is a sickness in these people

The Metropolitan Police is calling on the organisers of a pro-Palestinian student march planned to take place on the third anniversary of the 7 October attacks on Israel to move the event. Harman said around 300 students were expected to march through central London, from King's College London in the Strand on Wednesday, finishing at University College London in Holborn.

BBC

 

[bilby]

Since when is protesting about school inadequacies left wing? They also mentioned antisemitism as left wing.

You forgot Islam; That's apparently "left wing" too. It seems that the school protestors are all far left wing Muslims. You can tell, because they are terrorists (ie people who don't obey the authorities immediately and without question).

Anyone who questions authority is a terrorist; All terrorists are Muslims; Therefore anyone who questions authority is a Muslim.

It's very simple logic.

 

[bilby]

Well, you maybe should care about the potential for one of the best armed nuclear powers in the European theatre to fall under the control of religious fundamentalists with the known intent of converting the world by force.

Seriously??

You think France is possibly going, in the foreseeable future, to be controlled not only by Muslims, but by Islamic fundamentalists with the intent of converting the world by force?

You might want to seek help with your paranoia. That suggestion is seriously at odds with reality.

I am struggling to think of a less plausible geopolitical scenario than this. It's absurd.

 

[Bomb#20]

I have no idea if he was an Islamist since we talked about engineering, not politics.

Thank you. That’s my point.

What point? How the heck does my not knowing whether my boss favored Sharia support your contention about Derec using "Islamist" to mean "Muslim"?

78% of Muslims in the UK are in favor of criminally prosecuting people for cartoons of Muhammad.

Seriously?!? I’m supposed to give a flying ... about some mythical population thousands of miles from my country, that harbors irrational religious beliefs? Yawn.

[Quickly checks to see if the mods have renamed the thread "America headed for A Caliphate". Nope.]



The population is not mythical, and what the effect on the UK will be of the irrational religious beliefs they harbor is the topic of the thread you're posting in. Nobody said you're supposed to care about them. But if you don't care about them then why are you in this thread and why are you attacking a thread participant over what he said about UK Islamists?

You'd rather have Islamists than people opposed to Islamism. Typical islamoleftist nonsense.

Actually Derec, Great Replacement wackos are wackos by definition. An “Islamist” is just a person whose religion lends to pigeonholing by paranoid western xenophobes such as yourself.

I’m more concerned the 87% of rabid Trumpsuckers who want to destroy American democracy, and their oblivious enablers like Derec. Those people can, and it not restrained, will, destroy the USA.

I’d prefer if most Americans were upset about rabid trumpsuckers, as THEY are an ACTUAL IMMINENT EXISTENTIAL THREAT to the country of my home.*
Break out the accusations of jingoism!
I promise I’ll get back in the Othering game as soon as the immediate threat is quashed.

* it is somewhat encouraging that being upset about trump and his suckers, is the apparent trend,

There are plenty of Trump threads on IIDB. This isn't one of them.

Derec and his ilk notwithstanding.

Incidentally, Derec is a Trump opponent, and "ilk" is a word used entirely for ad hominem arguments.

 

[scombrid]

You seem to have willfully ignored the fact that I pointed out, which is that Western “civilization,” over the centuries, has commited far more atrocities than current Islamic terrorists.

Okay, you're mixing two very different timelines, and staggeringly different cohorts.. I don't think your assertion holds if you make it apples to apples.

If you look at the atrocities committed over, say, the last 1500 years by both european and arabic civilizations, I think arabic atrocities come out the worse.

If you look at atrocities committed by current christian zealots and current islamic zealots, I think islam comes out the worse.

Your comparison only holds when you compare over a thousand years of the very large category of mixed-religion europe, to the very tiny sliver of current islamic terrorists. It's a very poor

Funny it’s Islam versus “the west” but “the west” gets to subdivide all of its wrongs between groups when tallying up the atrocity scorecard. Islam is this singular thing that is trying to replace western civilization. Somehow we are to separate the Spanish and English colonial shenanigans and genocides and treat the non stop warring by the inbred royals Europe all the way into the world wars of the 20th as individual separate things. But Islam is just this one thing.

A thing that just happens to be invading the west to take over.

 

[scombrid]

Well, you maybe should care about the potential for one of the best armed nuclear powers in the European theatre to fall under the control of religious fundamentalists with the known intent of converting the world by force.

Seriously??

You think France is possibly going, in the foreseeable future, to be controlled not only by Muslims, but by Islamic fundamentalists with the intent of converting the world by force?

You might want to seek help with your paranoia. That suggestion is seriously at odds with reality.

I am struggling to think of a less plausible geopolitical scenario than this. It's absurd.

I think they are serious when they write such things. Minnesota, England, France… “they” are super close to taking over and replacing us.

 

[bilby]

Funny it’s Islam versus “the west” but “the west” gets to subdivide all of its wrongs between groups when tallying up the atrocity scorecard. Islam is this singular thing that is trying to replace western civilization. Somehow we are to separate the Spanish and English colonial shenanigans and genocides and treat the non stop warring by the inbred royals Europe all the way into the world wars of the 20th as individual separate things. But Islam is just this one thing.

Yeah, I saw an interesting example of this elsewhere just today - somebody discussing the FlyDubai incident was concerned that Saudi Arabia or the UAE shouldn't lead the air incident investigation, because "given the situation right now in the Gulf", Israel would be unlikely to trust them to be impartial.

I think he was surprised to hear that Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE are all on the same side of "the situation right now in the Gulf", and that Iran has attacked all three nations during the "situation".

 

[bilby]

I think they are serious when they write such things. Minnesota, England, France… “they” are super close to taking over and replacing us.

This seems to be entirely a creation of the news media, particularly (but not limited to) the Murdochs' News Limited and the Rothermeres' DMGT.

One huge problem with our modern society is that popular news media is expensive, and so is dominated by the opinions of a tiny handful of wealthy men whose beliefs (no matter how ugly or absurd) become accepted wisdom; And while fringe news media is cheap, it is dominated by single issue obsessives, whose beliefs are typically absurd, even where they contradict the popular media narratives.

My solution is to generally avoid the news, unless and until a story is raised by people I know - including the posters on this small, but generally above average intelligence, forum.

If a story isn't being discussed here (or other fora I frequent) by posters I have come to trust, and is not being discussed by my workmates, family, or neighbours, then I probably don't need to know or care about it.

I don't need to be the first to know about anything that's not happening in my street, or suburb. I don't need to see any more wounded people or explosions or fires or lucky escapes in distant lands, just because News Limited has footage of those things. I decline to be outraged by people I don't know being cruel or heartless or vicious to other people I don't know - unless I can reasonably intervene, I don't want to know. Indeed, I actively want not to know.

 

[scombrid]

I don’t know all the migrants. I know my in laws. They left Pakistan to get away from the shitstain fundies that England installed. I know the doctors I’ve met and the family that runs the food mart up the street and is sending their kids to Trinity Prep by working 7 days a week in the two stores that they own. They are just sleeper cells though. I understand now. We must treat them all as the terrorists they really are or they are going to replace us.

But then I’m not supposed to consider all Christians to be the same as Pete Hegseth and his pastor Doug. Nor am I to attribute the extra-judicial killings and widespread civilian casualties caused by the US and its allies to be Christian sponsored, even though Pete Hegseth is a white nationalist and the Pentagon Pastor Doug Williams is a very right wing Christian Dominionist.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don’t know all the migrants. {snip} They are just sleeper cells though. I understand now. We must treat them all as the terrorists they really are or they are going to replace us.

Nobody here has said they are all terrorists. Precious few are actual terrorists thankfully. But do not forget and dismiss the atrocities committed by muslims such as the Manchester Arena suicide bombing that killed 22, or the London suicide bombing that killed 50+ or the Madrid train bombings that killed nearly 200 people etc, etc. They do not have to be terrorists to achieve their goal of a caliphate. They just need numbers. And they are really starting to make headway there. Their presence is being felt in local communities and elections. What do you think will happen when the muslim population increases to the point where they outnumber the indigenous population? muslims are not in Europe to assimilate fella. They are coming to Europe to conquer.

 

[bilby]

Precious few are actual terrorists thankfully.

So...

They do not have to be terrorists to achieve their goal of a caliphate. They just need numbers.

... no problem then. Even if we accept your baseless assertion that a caliphate is "their" goal, and not just a goal of the "precious few".

What do you think will happen when the muslim population increases to the point where they outnumber the indigenous population?

I would guess ... nothing much?

What do you think will happen? What basis do you have for thinking that?

muslims are not in Europe to assimilate fella. They are coming to Europe to conquer.

Evidence? (Note that "I am afraid of the scary different people" does not constitute evidence).

Islam is stupid. Christianity is stupid. Christianity has been in charge in England for as long as England has been a country. It is still the established church, and still has its highest officials given seats in government as a matter of right.

If you lived in England 500 years ago, and were the wrong flavour of Christian, or not Christian at all, you might well have been in trouble. But today, you can get away with being an atheist despite England being an explicitly Christian nation, with Anglican Bishops sitting in the House of Lords.

So why would you expect England to go back to a medieval attitude to religion, if the majority belief switched from Chrjstianity to Islam? Most Islamic majority countries don't take a medieval approach - though some do. So what makes England likely to become a fundamentalist theocracy (of any flavour) after a century of declining religiosity?

How would Muslims succeed in implementing fundamentalism, where Christians failed?

What happened to make England regress into a medieval state (apart from Brexit, obviously)?