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Does Hell Exist?

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A Response to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) - Does Hell Exist?

The answer to the question is no. Hell as most people know it is a Christian adoption of pagan mythology, and isn't a Biblical teaching. The skeptic points out three possible interpretations. Those that don't go to heaven are tormented forever in hell; Those that don't go to heaven, just die; and Everyone goes to heaven after they die. None of these are correct Biblical teachings. The Bible teaches that a few people go to heaven to judge and rule with Christ Jesus, the rest of the people who have ever (or will ever have) lived will either live forever in paradise Earth or suffer everlasting destruction. Not a literal torment, as in hell, but a simple death.​

SAB: Yes, God tortures some people forever after they die.

No. Not literally. The Greek basanizo or related terms, can mean being restrained, as in Matthew 18:34 where the tormentors are jailers. (See Revelation reference below in this section #2) In modern colloquialism it is similar to telling someone if they jump off a cliff, they'll be sorry, not meaning sorry in a literal sense because they'll be dead. Romans 6:7. (Compare Translations) The wages of sin are death.

Daniel 12:2 doesn't convey the idea of hell. The meek shall inherit the earth and the disobedient will be destroyed.

Matthew 13:41-42 is a parable about the harvesting of crops after the weeds have been burned, beginning in verse 39. Jesus compares the disobedient to the weeds that would have been thrown into the fire and burned so that the crop may live. Fire was, in Bible times, the most thorough means of destruction.

Matthew 18:8-9 is a reference to Gehenna. Gehenna was a literal place which came to represent spiritual destruction. A figurative everlasting fire.

Matthew 22:1-14, the illustration of the marriage feast, is actually a pretty good account of Christianity. The King (God) invites his subjects (Jews) to the marriage feast of his son (Christ) and bride to be (anointed 144, 000) but they refuse. The first call went out from 29 - 33 CE during missionary work of Jesus' disciples (the King's slaves). The second call began at the wedding dinner (Pentecost 33 CE) and continued to 36 CE but still the subjects refused and even began to kill the slaves of the King. He became enraged and his armies destroyed them (70 CE). Since the subjects of the King had refused, he sent his slaves outside of the city (Jerusalem) to gather any who would attend (Gentiles) beginning in 36 CE. First the Roman army officer Cornelius and his family and continuing to this day. The man without the wedding garment is the apostate, who will be removed and thrown into the darkness. Which brings us to the next verse given by the skeptic:

Matthew 25:41, 46 - Verse 41 is a reference to the lake of fire which is symbolic of everlasting destruction and verse 46 is interesting in that the KJV uses the term everlasting punishment, or in other translations, cutting off. From the Greek kolasin, which literally means "lopping off or pruning."

Mark 9:43-48 is a reference to Gehenna, mentioned above. Gehenna was a literal place which came to represent spiritual destruction. A figurative everlasting fire.

Luke 16:22-24 is the illustration of Lazarus and the rich man. It isn't a literal/historical account. Jesus would later say that no man had ascended to heaven. (John 3:13)

John 5:28-29 in the KJV is a pretty poor translation. Compare John 5:29. Damnation comes from the Greek anastasin kriseos and the Latin resurrectionem iudicii, far more accurately translated as "judgment" or "resurrection to judgment." It is a reference to the resurrection of the unrighteous. (Acts 24:15) Those who have not been given the opportunity to know Jehovah God, though unrighteous, will be resurrected and given the opportunity to do so.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 deals with the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction of the disobedient.

Revelation 14:10-11; 20:10; Revelation 20:14-15 indicates that the wicked are tormented, from the Greek basanizo or related terms, which can mean being restrained, as in Matthew 18:34 where the "tormentors" are "jailers."

SAB: No, those that don't go to heaven, just die.

This is actually the closest interpretation to the truth according to the Bible. If it were reworded to say those that don't go to heaven or live forever on earth just die it would be correct.

Deuteronomy 29:20 - The book of God's remembrance is used throughout scripture to symbolize him taking note of those who are righteous and those who are not. The righteous to live and the unrighteous to die. This doesn't indicate that the righteous go to heaven or the unrighteous to hell, but that the meek shall inherit the Earth and live forever upon it and the unrighteous will suffer everlasting destruction. Death.

Psalm 1:4-6 - Interesting because the Hebrew word here translated as wind is the Hebrew ruach, which can also be translated as spirit. Not that this implies some spiritual connotation - quite the contrast - ruach simply means any invisible active force like breath, wind, or spirit. Like chaff, the thin covering on wheat and barley which is blown away with the wind after harvest the ungodly will be "blown away" in the end. Useless to a perfect creation without sin.

Psalm 34:16 - Interesting that the "remembrance" being removed can also be translated as the "mention" of them being removed. They are no longer remembered or talked about. Dissolved along with their sin.

Psalm 37:1-2; 37:20 refers to the corrupt evildoers who, through injustice and malice advance while the righteous gain nothing through wrongdoing. Those who rape, murder, steal, cheat and lie to get what they want corrupt the system, or world. Their demise would cease this destructive pattern.

Psalm 69:28 again refers to the book of life, those noted by God as deserving of life in a perfected heaven and earth, free from sin.

Proverbs 10:25 is a variation of both the chaff in the wind and the end of sin, death and destruction. The results of sin may seem like a storm now, but there are better days ahead.

Proverbs 24:20 reflects the sentiment in some verses mentioned earlier. Not only will the wicked be destroyed but the illumination of their works will be a thing of the past. Their corrupt system ended along with its effects.

Obadiah 1:16 - Again, the remembrance and mention of them will be no more. Forgotten.

Romans 6:21, 23 indicate an end to sin, which is disobedience to Jehovah, the creator, and brings death. These are interesting scriptures in the context of a discussion about hell, because if the wages of sin are death, then at death the debt of sin is paid in full. To suffer beyond that in a literal fiery torment would be overcharging. Romans 6:7 makes it clear when it says: "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin."

1 Corinthians 3:17 - It is important to realize what exactly is meant here by the "temple" or "church" of God. It isn't, of course, a building which houses a congregation. It is the congregation itself. The people. As 1 Corinthians 3:9, 16 indicates. In addition to persecutors this may also apply to apostate Christianity who spiritually destroy God's true congregation.

2 Corinthians 2:15-16 - The Roman soldiers would parade victorious through the city of Rome and burn incense in the altars, perfuming the air. To the Romans it was a sweet smell representing honor, promotion and riches. But to their captives it represented the unpleasant reminder that they would be executed at the end of the parade. Likewise, to those who accepted the Christian message and those who reject the message.

Galatians 6:8 - The indulgence of sinful human desires corrupts one in a way that leads to death.

Philippians 3:18-19 - These verses properly convey the idea that the sinful will be destroyed, but don't imply that the righteous will all go to heaven. On an unrelated note, the KJV uses the word cross where torture stake or pole should have been used. Jesus didn't die on a cross.

James 1:15 - A sinful nature leads to destruction and death. Through sin we all die, but if, during a brief life in faith, we avoid a sinful nature which corrupts the spirit as well as the flesh and so there is the hope of a resurrection to eternal life without sin rather than eternal destruction.

James 4:12 - Not everyone agrees with the morality dictated by the lawgiver, whether God or man, but as men we have no authority to question the morality of God. We may still not agree, but God the lawgiver has the authority to judge.

James 5:20 - Interesting because some Christians think that being "saved" is predestined, but this verse along with others considered in this article indicate that the sinful can turn back from destructive ways, and the righteous can turn to sinful ways.

SAB: No, everyone goes to heaven after they die.

1 Corinthians 15:12 - This chapter isn't dealing with mankind in general, but rather only those who have "fallen asleep in death in union with Christ." 1 Corinthians 15:18.

1 Timothy 4:10 - Christ gave himself a corresponding ransom for all, but not all will accept it. 1 Timothy 4:10 points this out. Paul said that Jesus was a savior for all men, potentially, but specifically for the faithful.

1 John 2:2 - "Our sins" refers to the sins of the anointed Christians (144, 000) like John himself, who would judge in heaven with Christ, but also the people of the world who have the possibility of resurrection to everlasting life in paradise earth.

SAB: No, everyone dies. There is no heaven or hell.

Put simply, the Biblical words heaven and hell mean, respectively, high and grave.

Joshua 23:14 - Joshua was dying with the hope of resurrection. God is in hell in the sense that his attention is fixed upon the grave to resurrect the faithful. Like Joshua. (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Amos 9:1-2 Compare; Proverbs 15:11; Psalm 139:8 Compare)

Job 7:9; 14:10-14; 20:7 - At Job 7:9 Job may have been referring to the permanence of death in this world or he might have been pointing out that resurrection was out of his control. At Job 14:10 there is some variation between the Masoretic Hebrew texts and the Septuagint. The former says "Where is he?" and the latter says "he is no more." Compare Job 14:10. But, interestingly, at Job 20:7 there is no such variation. One thing is sure, Job believed in the possibility of resurrection. (Job 14:13-15)

Psalm 6:5; 31:17; Psalm 88:5; 115:17; Ecclesiastes 3:19-21; Ecclesiastes 9:2-6; Isaiah 38:18 all have to do with death and the grave. In the case of hell, it is really easy to sort the theological - the pagan influenced apostate Christian doctrine - from the scriptural truth.

First, the wages of sin are death, not a literal torment in hell. (Romans 6:7) The soul is mortal/destructable so it can't be tortured literally forever in hell. (Ezekiel 18:4 compare; Matthew 10:28) The Biblical soul is the life/blood of any breathing animal or human. The Hebrew word translated soul literally means "breather." The immaterial soul of pagan origin, (Socrates/Plato) as well as spirit creatures - Satan and his demons - wouldn't be harmed by literal fire. (Exodus 3:2) Hell and death are thrown into the figurative lake of fire which is symbolic of everlasting destruction. Meaning they are no more. Destroyed. (Revelation 20:14) The meek inherit everlasting life on earth. (Psalm 37:11; Matthew 5:5)
 

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As far as putting you on "ignore," nah...I'm having too much fun with you. Back in the day when the "God Squad" knocked on my door, I used to enjoy getting them to leave on their own account. It was fun, but as I got older I just stopped answering the door.

But if you're gonna keep knocking, I'm gonna have some fun with you.

Okay. Cool. I will just put you on ignore. Stop, so to speak, answering the door.

My having fun with you was okay like your having fun with them. Gotta play fair on my playground.
 
We're living in it, and it's created by stupidity and ignorance. Oh yeah and greed.
 
We're living in it, and it's created by stupidity and ignorance. Oh yeah and greed.
Mostly by God, AKA Jehovah.

Jehovah makes us stupid and ignorant. If we were smart enough to realize why high quality morality would result in the best lives for all of us, we would live that way. But Jehovah doesn't make humans that way.

Either Jehovah is not very smart, powerful, benevolent, or He just doesn't exist (aside from the fictional character type in the scriptures).

I find the latter more compelling. Bible Believer God, AKA Jehovah, is a god image created in the image of the theists who want to believe in a God who agrees with them about everything that they think is important.
Tom
 
You're confusing the pagan hell with the old English word hell and the Biblical sheol and hades. The old English word hell, the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades mean grave. It would be foolish to think graves don't exist. The distinction of the pagan hell which was adopted by the apostate church and the Biblical hell.

Now, the afterlife you would contest as an atheist I presume would be the Biblical resurrection.
Don't babble like an idiot.
Both you and I live in the 20th and 21st century.
Nobody thinks hell means grave anymore. And that is irrelevant to this thread.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe or what century it is. The question is what does the Bible teach. The Bible doesn't teach hell as a literal eternal punishment.


Except that is what it describes, eternal damnation and eternal torment
 
You're confusing the pagan hell with the old English word hell and the Biblical sheol and hades. The old English word hell, the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades mean grave. It would be foolish to think graves don't exist. The distinction of the pagan hell which was adopted by the apostate church and the Biblical hell.

Now, the afterlife you would contest as an atheist I presume would be the Biblical resurrection.
Don't babble like an idiot.
Both you and I live in the 20th and 21st century.
Nobody thinks hell means grave anymore. And that is irrelevant to this thread.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe or what century it is. The question is what does the Bible teach. The Bible doesn't teach hell as a literal eternal punishment.


Except that is what it describes, eternal damnation and eternal torment

Except that it doesn't. What is damnation and what word in Greek did they use? They being the already apostate religion that translated all of the Bibles after adopting the pagan hell? Or, like I pointed out int the article, what did even just those words mean? How, for example, were they used elsewhere in other contexts?
 
Nobody alive today knows what any of it actually meant as used by the people around the Hebrews w
who first first wrote it down.

You only have to look at language today. It is fluid. Meanings change and shift.

Imagine 2500 years from now trying to deduce meaning of a limiting set of literature from today using only literal meninges of words from a dictionary.
 
You're confusing the pagan hell with the old English word hell and the Biblical sheol and hades. The old English word hell, the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades mean grave. It would be foolish to think graves don't exist. The distinction of the pagan hell which was adopted by the apostate church and the Biblical hell. Now, the afterlife you would contest as an atheist I presume would be the Biblical resurrection.
Don't babble like an idiot. Both you and I live in the 20th and 21st century. Nobody thinks hell means grave anymore. And that is irrelevant to this thread.
It doesn't matter what you or I believe or what century it is. The question is what does the Bible teach. The Bible doesn't teach hell as a literal eternal punishment.
Except that is what it describes, eternal damnation and eternal torment
Except that it doesn't. What is damnation and what word in Greek did they use? They being the already apostate religion that translated all of the Bibles after adopting the pagan hell? Or, like I pointed out int the article, what did even just those words mean? How, for example, were they used elsewhere in other contexts?

I've already posted a number of verses that describe the fate of the damned.

Here it is again;

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. - Matthew 25:41

''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

''And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.'' - Mark 9:43

''And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.'' - Revelation 20:15

''And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'' - Matthew 13:50

''He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.'' - Revelation 14:10

Rev 14:10-11 he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

The Unsaved spend eternity in the same place as the Devil and his angels: Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
- Matthew 25:31-46

Isn't that clear enough?
 
Kastrup's analytic idealism universal mind seems far more likely to exist than the Christian God, if any such God like creature exists.
 
We're living in it, and it's created by stupidity and ignorance. Oh yeah and greed.
Mostly by God, AKA Jehovah.

Jehovah makes us stupid and ignorant. If we were smart enough to realize why high quality morality would result in the best lives for all of us, we would live that way. But Jehovah doesn't make humans that way.

Either Jehovah is not very smart, powerful, benevolent, or He just doesn't exist (aside from the fictional character type in the scriptures).

I find the latter more compelling. Bible Believer God, AKA Jehovah, is a god image created in the image of the theists who want to believe in a God who agrees with them about everything that they think is important.
Tom

What an old drama queen, talking indirectly to me.

How about this? Either Jehovah, who you've decided without evidence, doesn't exist, isn't very smart, powerful, benevolent and made us stupid and ignorant or we chose and continue to choose what isn't very smart, powerful, benevolent, because we aren't very smart, powerful, benevolent. Which is it? God's fault or our fault and how does that answer reflect what you really believe?

Is God the best made up villain in the best drama of all time or is everything you blame him for really our fault?
 
Kastrup's analytic idealism universal mind seems far more likely to exist than the Christian God, if any such God like creature exists.

This "God" of which you speak - do you mean the distorted "Jewish/Christian" occidental version, or the original?
 

How about this? Either Jehovah, who you've decided without evidence, doesn't exist …

We don’t have to provide evidence that he doesn’t exist —though a mountain of such evidence does exist.

You have to provide evidence that he does.

Basic logic.
 
Kastrup's analytic idealism universal mind seems far more likely to exist than the Christian God, if any such God like creature exists.

This "God" of which you speak - do you mean the distorted "Jewish/Christian" occidental version, or the original?

And you know it’s distorted how?
 
Why did Saruman abandon reason for madness? Was Ungoliant much bigger than Shelob?
 
Why did Saruman abandon reason for madness? Was Ungoliant much bigger than Shelob?

Keep telling yourself that. Were there weapons of mass destruction? Are vaccines safe and effective? Is Trump the devil?

If you get at least two reports of everything you know in the real world, one real and one not, you have to make the call and live with the decision and its consequences.

No big deal. If you're fooled into believing the wrong one who's fault is it?
 
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You're confusing the pagan hell with the old English word hell and the Biblical sheol and hades. The old English word hell, the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades mean grave. It would be foolish to think graves don't exist. The distinction of the pagan hell which was adopted by the apostate church and the Biblical hell.

Now, the afterlife you would contest as an atheist I presume would be the Biblical resurrection.
Don't babble like an idiot.
Both you and I live in the 20th and 21st century.
Nobody thinks hell means grave anymore. And that is irrelevant to this thread.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe or what century it is. The question is what does the Bible teach. The Bible doesn't teach hell as a literal eternal punishment.


Except that is what it describes, eternal damnation and eternal torment

Except that it doesn't. What is damnation and what word in Greek did they use? They being the already apostate religion that translated all of the Bibles after adopting the pagan hell? Or, like I pointed out int the article, what did even just those words mean? How, for example, were they used elsewhere in other contexts?
How about ole Asherah? What happened to her? Was she not original enough for you?
 
We're living in it, and it's created by stupidity and ignorance. Oh yeah and greed.
Mostly by God, AKA Jehovah.

Jehovah makes us stupid and ignorant. If we were smart enough to realize why high quality morality would result in the best lives for all of us, we would live that way. But Jehovah doesn't make humans that way.

Either Jehovah is not very smart, powerful, benevolent, or He just doesn't exist (aside from the fictional character type in the scriptures).

I find the latter more compelling. Bible Believer God, AKA Jehovah, is a god image created in the image of the theists who want to believe in a God who agrees with them about everything that they think is important.
Tom

What an old drama queen, talking indirectly to me.

How about this? Either Jehovah, who you've decided without evidence, doesn't exist, isn't very smart, powerful, benevolent and made us stupid and ignorant or we chose and continue to choose what isn't very smart, powerful, benevolent, because we aren't very smart, powerful, benevolent. Which is it? God's fault or our fault and how does that answer reflect what you really believe?

Is God the best made up villain in the best drama of all time or is everything you blame him for really our fault?


Isn't a creator responsible for the state of their creation?
 
Isn't a creator responsible for the state of their creation?

That's kind of like asking isn't a parent responsible for the state of their children.

Yes and no.

So then ask is a parent responsible for wrongdoing their children commit if the parent did everything possible to prevent it. Like disciplining, which the Bible calls creating evil. Isaiah 45:7. Some translations say evil, some say calamity, etc. Hmmm. I must have went back in time and changed the rules again. Tricky bugger.

The bible tells us that its God deliberately creates both evil and the evildoer.

Oh, and the evildoer. Like the parent. Created the child. To be evil? Who's responsible?
 
Isn't a creator responsible for the state of their creation?

That's kind of like asking isn't a parent responsible for the state of their children.

Yes and no.

Let's say you're the parent of a toddler. Not old enough to understand complex moral arguments, and easily swayed by adults. This toddler is fascinated by the water in the backyard pool. You are worried they might do something stupid like try to jump in (they obviously haven't learned to swim yet), but you don't install a pool fence or lock the door to the back yard. You give your kid a warning to not go near the pool, and you leave to go to the mall for the afternoon.

Your neighbor - whom you know very well hates children and probably has some skeletons in his closet - is aware that you've left the gate to the back yard unlocked, and knows (from observing you through your windows) that your kid absolutely loves his teddy bear. So while you're gone, the neighbor goes into your house, grabs the teddy bear, throws it into the middle of the pool, and tells the kid to go get his beloved teddy.

You come home, and the kid is at the bottom of the pool. Dead. Are you responsible? Yes. Or rather, you were irresponsible. You left the house unlocked, your kid inside alone, and now the toddler is dead. What's your solution to this problem? You're going to punish the next couple of kids that you have for the "sins" of their dead older brother. They're going to beat their kids, and the cycle of domestic violence will continue for generations.

This is essentially the Garden of Eden. Two innocent kids - who had no concept of right or wrong - are tempted by a serpent to eat the forbidden fruit. God created the kids, the serpent, and then left them all alone together (which seems impossible for an omnipresent being) knowing full well that the serpent would tempt them. When they fall for the temptation, God punishes the kids and all of their descendants for all time. God takes no personal responsibility for enabling the situation, inflicts no punishment on the serpent (that he created) and instead punishes Adam and Eve and all of us.

That seems pretty fucked up. God is a horribly irresponsible and cruel parent.
 
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