Democrats trying to unseat each other II

[Derec]

"Always complains about the Jews"??? What kind of baseless nonsense is that???

She and the rest of her squad mates attack Israel a lot.

What makes the DSA so "extreme"?

They support actual socialism, i.e. public rather than private control of means of production.

We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, disability status, age, religion, and national origin, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships.

From the DSA Constitution.
DSA apparatchiks like AOC and Lee do not usually advertise that fact, preferring to play games with the term "socialist".

Issues | Summer Lee For Congress

A campaign website is basically an ad - her handlers will want to put her positions in best possible light. But what about her statements on things like police defunding?

Or abolishing ICE and even borders?

And also prisons.

[to be continued]

 

[Derec]

And I guess "insurrection" was a good word until January 6th too.


She is an extremist alright and DNC needs to disavow her.

So Hamas is so evil that it's important to act like Hamas?

Israel does not act like Hamas. Not even remotely close. It is this kind of false equivalence and blatant lies that progressives are guilty of when it comes to Israel.

 

[lpetrich]

"Few would deny the left electoral movement has suffered major setbacks since Sanders’ 2016 and 2020 presidential campaigns."

BS himself losing in 2020 after the Democratic establishment rallied around Joe Biden. Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar dropped out just before Super Tuesday in a deal to not split the centrist vote and let BS win.

Also such losses as Nina Turner (Shontel Brown), Jessica Cisneros (Henry Cuellar), Marie Newman (1-term incumbent, Sean Casten), Alessandra Biaggi (Sean Patrick Maloney)

In all, centrist Democrats challenged by progressives ended up winning 14 of 22 primaries this cycle — roughly two-thirds. “The main problem was corporate PAC dark money,” says Alexandra Rojas, executive director of Justice Democrats. “The scale of it,” says Maurice Mitchell, National Director of the WFP, “I can’t overstate.”

Then the enormous amounts of money spent by big-money PAC's after their triumph over Nina Turner OH-11. They went on to defeat Jessica Cisneros TX-28 and Kina Collins IL-07.

“You could be a great candidate, have a legislative record that shows you can be effective, but money in politics is what kept me and my team up [at night],” says Delia Ramirez, who ran and won the primary for the newly drawn 3rd District in Illinois.

Incumbents Rashida Tlaib MI-12, Ilhan Omar MN-05, and Cori Bush MO-01 all faced big-money challenges. IO barely survived, but RT and CB survived with comfortable margins.

"... and Bush faced a flood of attacks from entrepreneur Steven C. Roberts, head of a sprawling business empire who also happens to be the father of Bush’s challenger."
How convenient.

“The main attack point was that these candidates were insufficiently loyal to the Democratic Party and Biden,” says Waleed Shahid, communications director for Justice Democrats.

“Strong, Democratic, progressive Black women” were particularly questioned on their credentials, Rojas says. Issues the Right has weaponized — such as defunding the police—were less important as individual attacks than as part of a tapestry of negative messaging telling loyal Democratic voters that insurgents were inexperienced, unserious and out of step with the party, according to those involved in the campaigns. “They tested those attacks early on and poured lots of money to make sure the message they went with was salient enough with a large swath of voters,” Rojas adds.

Then Donna Edwards MD-04 lost to an AIPAC-backed candidate, even though she was liked by Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi along with BS-affiliated Our Revolution.

"The dark money spigot won’t shut off anytime soon. In September, the Democratic National Committee blocked a resolution to ban outside spending in primaries."

 

[bilby]

Don’t Look Now But Progressives Are About to Expand Their Ranks in Congress - In These Times

Thanx to the likes of the Justice Democrats and the Working Families Party.

I don't know about you, but I do not think radicalization and polarization of Congress is a good idea for our country.

You don't appear to resile from being polarising, and your mischaracterising election of these moderates as 'radicalization' is further evidence of this.

 

[Swammerdami]

Of course Israel should defend itself. Bombing a Hamas rocket depot in Gaza or killing an Islamic Jihad leader in Jenin are not "undeniable atrocities" and neither is it "indiscriminate and disproportionate force"....

As usual, you seem unable to cope with elementary logic. If a vicious killer pit bull is a dog, and my fluffy poodle is a dog, does it follow that every fluffy poodle is a vicious killer?

Here's a news story from just one month ago. In your view was the attack an example of "Bombing a Hamas rocket depot in Gaza" or was it "killing an Islamic Jihad leader in Jenin" ?

Nablus, occupied West Bank – On the morning of October 4, dozens of Israeli settlers raided the Huwwara Secondary Boys School, south of Nablus city in the occupied West Bank, beating staff members and students and smashing cars and class windows before retreating.

Two students, a 16 and a 17-year-old, were treated in hospital for cuts and injuries from rocks, while others suffered tear gas inhalation when the Israeli army fired tear gas bombs into the school field following the attack.

Sitting in his office at the school, with scabs from the rocks still visible on his wrist, Shehadeh said the settlers “were throwing rocks at me, at the cars, at everything. It was raining rocks. I was hit on my arms, legs, and chest.”

The assault on the high school came as part of a sharp increase in coordinated and armed settler attacks, under Israeli army protection, during the past month in the town of Huwwara and other parts of Nablus, where organised Palestinian armed resistance against Israeli occupation has intensified in recent months.

Dozens of Palestinians have been injured and their properties destroyed in settler attacks in Huwwara on September 19 and 28, as well as October 4, and for three days in a row last week.

Dozens of such stories abound, but of course they're useless in trying to educate your Ilk.

I don't know about you, but I do not think radicalization and polarization of Congress is a good idea for our country.

What a laugh!

This fatuity recalls the famous scene from Chinatown:
"I'm a hypocrite!"
-- Jake slaps D____.
"I'm a liar!"
-- Jake slaps D____ again.
"I'm a moron!"
-- Jake slaps D____ again.
"I'm a hypocrite and a liar and a moron!"
-- D____ starts sobbing uncontrollably.

 

[ZiprHead]

Don’t Look Now But Progressives Are About to Expand Their Ranks in Congress - In These Times

Thanx to the likes of the Justice Democrats and the Working Families Party.

I don't know about you, but I do not think radicalization and polarization of Congress is a good idea for our country.

Tell it to the Republicans. They're the ones doing it.

 

[ZiprHead]

This is bullshit. Trayvon's GF testified Trayvon was attacked while he was on the phone with her. That's hardly zero evidence.

First of all, she did not see anything, and as to what she may have heard (such as wet grass), she is hardly a disinterested witness.

What there is zero evidence of is that Trayvon assaulted Z.

There were abrasions on Trayvon's knuckles indicating he hit Z, but no such abrasions on Z's knuckles.
That shows that it was Trayvon who hit Z, not the other way around.

Considering Zimmerman's actions since the incident, it's become quite clear Zimmerman is a violent, racist POS.

What evidence of Z's alleged "racism" do you think you have?
And even if he was - even racist have the right to self defense if attacked.

I'll not respond to this derail. If you wish to continue it, report it and have it merged into the original thread.

 

[Elixir]

Don’t Look Now But Progressives Are About to Expand Their Ranks in Congress - In These Times

Thanx to the likes of the Justice Democrats and the Working Families Party.

I don't know about you, but I do not think radicalization and polarization of Congress is a good idea for our country.

Tell it to the Republicans. They're the ones doing it.

Fat chance. One thing that defines RW ideologues is that they don’t eat their own.

 

[lpetrich]

But if the progressive movement is on the ropes, no one’s told its leaders.

“I think it’s been mis-portrayed as a bad year for progressives by the media,” says Greg Casar, a democratic socialist candidate who won his primary for an open House seat in Texas, and who (like other winning candidates) had the crucial backing of groups like WFP and Justice Democrats. “We’ll have a historic number of progressives, true progressives, in Congress.”

Lessons from the 2022 Primaries – what do they tell us about America’s political parties and the midterm elections?
The Republican Party continues to be dominated by Donald Trump while the Progressive Insurgency (PI) is a much weaker presence in the Democratic Party.

Donald Trump endorsed about 1/8 of the candidates, and about 96.53% of them won. They were mostly incumbents, though his endorsed non-incumbents won at a rate of 86.21%. Only mentioning him and/or his favorite slogans won at a smaller rate, comparable to not connecting oneself to Trump (some 60% of the candidates, winning at some 30%).

Republican primary candidates mostly identified as Trumpies (36.14%) or as mainstream conservatives (47.36%), and not very often as moderates (6.04%), with no data for 10.46%. The factions' win rates were not much different, with MC's at 35.91%, Trumpies at 33.41%, and mods at 26.76%. No-data ones did 17.39%.

The Democratic side is another story.

Candidates endorsed by "Justice for All" (typo for Justice Democrats?), Our Revolution, Indivisible, and/or Senator Bernie Sanders and/or a member of “the Squad” were only 5.82% but won at 50%. Those who used slogans from “Defund the Police", "Abolish ICE", "Medicare for All", "Green New Deal", "Opposition to ‘corporate’ Democrats” were 26.62% winning at 39.08%. Those without such connections or slogans were 72.15% and won at 46.98%. So left-wing positions are not the electoral poison that some people seem to think that they are.

Turning to factional identification, democratic socialists were 1.45%, winning at 38.46%, progressives were 32.55%, winning at 42.61%, and mainstream Democrat were 55.70%, winning at 51.80%. For no data, 10.29% of the candidates, the win rate was 17.39%. So being a left-winger was not electoral poison there also.

Conclusion. In the past decade each major political party has found itself embroiled in factional wars. But the impact on the parties has been very different. On the Republican side candidates have embraced Trump – even when he has not embraced them – and done very well in the primaries because of it. On the Democratic side, the impact of Bernie Sanders’ revolution has been smaller, more muted, and less successful in primaries. These facts are often overlooked for two reasons. First, the Republican Party works hard to paint all Democrats as socialists who would wreck our economy, defund the police, and open our borders to everyone. Second is the inclination in the press towards what our colleague and distinguished journalist Marvin Kalb has called the “journalistic curse called bothsideism.” The way this has worked in recent years is to assume symmetry – if the Republican Party is being jerked to the far right; the Democratic Party must be being jerked to the far left. As we’ve seen, there’s not much evidence to support that trend among the Democrats but plenty of evidence to support it among the Republicans.

 

[lpetrich]

In These Times then continued with the remarkable win rate of progressive organizations. Justice Democrats had a win rate of 3 out its 5 challenger candidates, JD's best rate ever. The Working Families Party had a win rate of 8 out of 14 non-incumbent House races. Though its win rate is 57% rather than 77% in 2020, it is moving away from investing in candidates in heavily Republican districts.

In a blow to centrist Democrats, WFP endorsee Jamie McLeod-Skinner ousted Rep. Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), the Blue Dog who led the corporate-backed effort in the House to derail the Build Back Better Act, the omnibus climate and social policy bill that was a priority for progressives. Another WFP candidate, Sanders-endorsed Vermont state Sen. Becca Balint, won her primary against Vermont’s lieutenant governor for Vermont’s only House seat, making her a shoo-in for the seat that, 30 years ago, catapulted Sanders to national prominence.

JMLS is in OR-05, +3% (538's estimate), so it will be a tough race for her in the general election. BB is very likely to win her seat, since it is +28%.

Then mentioning Greg Casar TX-35 +38%, Delia Ramirez IL-04 +39% Summer Lee PA-12 +15%, and Maxwell Frost FL-10 +29%. AIPAC is supporting the Republican against SL in a grudge match, so it will be difficult for her. These four have excited the base, at least if one counts endorsements. In BS's aforementioned conference were Jonathan Jackson IL-01 +41% and BB VT-01 +28%. Some other possibilities are Jasmine Crockett TX-30 +51%, Angélica Dueñas CA-29 against a Democratic incumbent, Michelle Vallejo TX-15 0% (538: evenly matched), and Mandela Barnes for Senate in Wisconsin -4% (538: a slight Republican tilt). Progressives are also lining up behind John Fetterman of Pennsylvania -3% (538: also a slight Republican tilt).

Progressive incumbents who survived strong primary challenges: Ilhan Omar MN-05 50.3%, Jamaal Bowman NY-16 60.9%, Rashida Tlaib MI-12 64.4%, Cori Bush MO-01 69.5%. AOC and Ayanna Pressley had no primary challenges, despite AOC getting a strong one back in 2020.

One progressive is in a vulnerable spot: Katie Porter CA-47 +6%. She won only 51.0% in the primary, and her opponents were all Republicans.

Angélica Dueñas CA-29 I'm not very sure about. Incumbent Tony Cárdenas won 57.5%, AD 20.4%, and three Republicans a total of 22.1%.

Back in 2020, in the primary, it was TC 58.5%, AD 23.0%, a R 15.0%, and a D 3.5%. In the general, TC 56.6% AD 43.4%.

In 2018, AD ran as a Green, and got only 6.4% of the vote, placing fourth.

 

[lpetrich]

Collecting all the numbers, Jasmine Crockett TX-30 +51%, Jonathan Jackson IL-01 +41%, Delia Ramirez IL-04 +39%, Becca Balint VT-01 +28%, Greg Casar TX-35 +38%, Maxwell Frost FL-10 +29%, Summer Lee PA-12 +15%, Jamie McLeod-Skinner OR-05 +3%, Michelle Vallejo TX-15 0%, John Fetterman PA-SEN -3%, Mandela Barnes WI-SEN -4%.

Of the long-shot candidates, I must mention Charles Booker KY-SEN -27% against Rand Paul, Odessa Kelly TN-07 -21% (gerrymandered in the middle of her run), and maybe also Cheri Beasley NC-SEN -5%.

So the Squad could well double in size a few days from now.

 

[lpetrich]

Back to ITT: "Tactics and Strategies".

Progressive insurgents often started off well in advance, as much as 14 months in advance.

“It was important to firm up as much support as possible early, so that when lies or mischaracterizations hit, they don’t stick,” says Casar. “And we worked really hard to pay for early polling to show how much broad support we had, which can help keep that right-wing money from coming in.”

Then about Greg Casar and Maxwell Frost backing off from stances that AIPAC considers anti-Israel.

Another factor was the candidates themselves. “The quality of the candidate matters so much,” says Waleed Shahid. “You can have the math on paper that the demographics and the path to victory are such and such, but if the candidate’s not an authentic messenger or grounded in good values, it’s going to be hard to make that case.”

The candidates’ years of involvement in organizing gave them pre-established public profiles, plus deep connections to local leaders, activists and potential allies — as did their time in elected office.

Then discussing the activism of Greg Casar (33 years old), Delia Ramirez (39 years old, daughter of Guatemalan immigrants), Summer Lee (34 years old), and Maxwell Frost (25 years old). All but MF have had careers in local and state elected office, and good records in those careers.

Previous political careers:

AOC: none; Ayanna Pressley: Boston MA City Council 2009 - ?; Rashida Tlaib: MI House 2009 - 2015; Ilhan Omar: MN House 2017-2019; Katie Porter: none; Marie Newman: none; Jamaal Bowman: none; Cori Bush: none; Mondaire Jones: none; Jonathan Jackson: none; Becca Balint: VT Senate 2015 - 2023; Delia Ramirez: IL House 2019 - 2023; Greg Casar: Austin TX City Council 2015 - 2022; Maxwell Frost: none; Summer Lee: PA House 2018 - 2022; Jamie McLeod-Skinner: none; Michelle Vallejo: none; Mandela Barnes: WI Lt Gov 2019 - 2023, WI Assembly 2013 - 2017; John Fetterman: PA Lt Gov 2019 - 2023

 

[lpetrich]

Some of their history of legislative action:

On the Austin City Council, Casar pushed through affordable housing measures and a 60-day eviction moratorium at the start of the pandemic.

...
In Illinois, Ramirez authored an emergency housing assistance bill, signed into law in May 2021, that temporarily stayed some foreclosures and allocated money for struggling renters and homeowners during the pandemic.

...
Lee, who had to work within a long GOP-controlled Pennsylvania legislature, drew on her activist roots to jumpstart action on police reform during the 2020 George Floyd protests, leading the effort to commandeer the House podium at the start of voting.

...
These records made charges of party disloyalty a tough sell. “To accuse them of being Republicans didn’t really work,” Shahid says. Their legislation had been publicized as victories by local Democratic branches in party press releases, such as the paid sick leave ordinance passed by Casar, who calls himself “a proud member” of the Democratic Party. When Ramirez spearheaded the codification of abortion rights in Illinois in 2019 and successfully passed a provision—inserted at the end of a 465-page budget bill in 2020 — to expand Medicaid to undocumented immigrants, Democratic Gov. JB Pritzker touted both as major accomplishments.

That hurt candidates without legislative records, like Kina Collins. "She fell in a low-turnout election in Chicago, where doorknockers in typically blue-voting African-American neighborhoods met voters complaining the president wasn’t doing anything for them, Alexandra Rojas says."

 

[lpetrich]

Through it all, the winning campaigns continued the strategies progressive challengers have become known for, namely the blister-inducing doorknocking and phonebanking that’s been the bedrock of left-wing upsets going back to Sanders’ first mayoral victory in 1981.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's shoes are making history - CNN Style - shoes with holes in their soles from her walking in them.

From 2018 Jan 28, during her first campaign:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I've worn through a few shoes on the campaign trail, but today was the first time making a straight hole through the bottom.
Anyone out there have a favorite shoe that can handle anything? Looking for something presentable for the campaign trail but can take LOTS of walking." / Twitter

Central as these tactics are, however, they’re clearly no longer enough.

“That can’t make up for the imbalance in paid communications,” Shahid says. “Our adversaries are spending six, seven figures on mailers and ads, and we can’t abandon that terrain to them. For older voters, it’s the main way they get information.”

One clear trend is that progressive candidates who are outspent 2-to-1 can win, while those with steeper ratios aren’t as lucky. “When our candidates were outspent to that level, our opponents could shape the narrative in ways that became overwhelming for us to reshape, even with all the advantages we had,” Mitchell says. WFP-backed Durham County Commissioner Nida Allam was outspent 14-to-1 and lost her bid for North Carolina’s 4th District.

Summer Lee went from a 25% lead to a little less than 1% of victory. It also didn't help that there was another progressive in the race, Jerry Dickinson, who got 10.9% of the vote.

“Summer’s race was one we knew we could win, but it required us to go all in,” says Rojas. “After that, we didn’t have the money to spend in the same way on others.”

In the end, Justice Democrats and other outside groups came up with $1.7 million to offset the nearly $3 million spent against Lee. Only $22,000 separated Ramirez and the runner-up in her race, while Casar faced no serious outside spending in his four-way primary. Frost, as a dark horse political novice, did not draw much resistance in his race — but as time has proven, such out-of-nowhere upsets hardly make for reliable left-wing victories.

“A big part of what I’m thinking about is what I can do between now and the next cycle to build that war chest,” Rojas says. “In the same way that progressives care about organizing people, we have to start caring about organizing money.”

 

[lpetrich]

How to raise money? Having a progressive version of Nancy Pelosi? Bernie Sanders and AOC?

As counterintuitive as it seems, the groups challenging the corporate establishment view the flood of dark money as a marker of success.

“Their money is a response to our victories,” Mitchell says. “They wouldn’t be spending this much if our strategies weren’t working, or on candidates who have no path to victory.”

Yes, they must be scared.

These victories defied a number of pernicious narratives. Republicans have claimed since 2020, with some evidence, that Latino voters are a conservative constituency drifting steadily away from the Democratic Party. Yet Casar and Ramirez won big in majority Latino districts running on unabashedly progressive platforms.

Checking on Ballotpedia, both candidates won big.

• Greg Casar TX-35: 61.1%, 15.6%, 15.6%, 7.6%
• Delia Ramirez IL-03: 65.6%, 23.9%, 6.5%, 4.0%

Both of them won by big margins.

Despite a bipartisan effort to turn “defund the police” and reform efforts into a political liability — partly based on the claim that minority voters are most concerned with law and order — Casar, Ramirez, Frost and Lee all backed Black Lives Matter protests (Frost was arrested) or even supported the defunding demand.

“Defund the police, socialism — all those big slogans have come up on the campaign trail,” Rojas says. The difference, she says, was the candidates’ long-term approach to politics that saw them campaign for 12 to 14 months and spend even longer organizing and building public profiles, giving them the public trust and infrastructure to weather such attacks.

“The tactic that all of our candidates have taken is to bring together broad coalitions by going out, knocking on doors, meeting people, having honest conversations,” Rojas says, whether about Medicare for All, about what “defunding” really entails, or what democratic socialism actually means.

 

[lpetrich]

The successes of Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush should have impressed commentators that progressivism is not just a bicoastal thing. But the likely victories of the newest progressive insurgents should provide yet more counterevidence. So I decided to check on their residences.

• Boston MA: Ayanna Pressley
• Burlington, VT: Becca Balint
• New York City: AOC, Jamaal Bowman, Mondaire Jones
• Pittsburgh PA: Summer Lee
• Orlando FL: Maxwell Frost
• Detroit MI: Rashida Tlaib
• Chicago IL: Marie Newman, Delia Ramirez, Jonathan Jackson
• Minneapolis MN: Ilhan Omar
• Austin TX: Greg Casar
• Orange County CA: Katie Porter

I think that these commentators will retreat to saying that progressivism is a big-city thing.

I can't resist:
The Long, Troubling Career of Buffalo's Byron Brown - In These Times - "The career trajectory of Byron Brown is familiar to U.S. cities: a young reformer who took on the city’s corrupt establishment—and who soon embodied the very establishment he’d run against."

Much like Kyrsten Sinema.

 

[Derec]

You don't appear to resile from being polarising,

I detest extremists on both sides. The problem is that people like you, and many others on here, do not acknowledge left wing extremists as such.

and your mischaracterising election of these moderates as 'radicalization' is further evidence of this.

I find it risible that you think candidates like Summer Lee, who is a (card-carrying?) member of the DSA and who called for defunding of police and for abolition of prisons, ICE and even borders, "moderates".

 

[Derec]

As usual, you seem unable to cope with elementary logic.

You are projecting.

Here's a news story from just one month ago.

I just see some text that is not attributed to any source or

In your view was the attack an example of "Bombing a Hamas rocket depot in Gaza" or was it "killing an Islamic Jihad leader in Jenin" ?

I was referring to these incidents from a few days ago.
Israel strikes ‘rocket factory’ in Gaza after rockets launched at south
Two Palestinians – a teen and a terror activist – killed in Israeli raid in Jenin
And lest you weep for the 14 year old shot during the raid, Palestinian terrorists often use underage fighters.
These new terror groups such as so-called "Lion's Den" (named after eliminated terrorist Ibrahim al-Nabulsi) in Shechem and "Jenin Brigades" have been responsible for many attacks against Israelis, including inside Israel.
3 dead, several other people shot in terror attack in Tel Aviv, Israel

Palestinian Caught in Jaffa Planned Bnei Brak Synagogue Attack
A synagogue in the same town (not sure if same one) had been attacked in March, by a Fatah (supposedly a "moderate" Palestinian faction) terrorist.
Five killed in Bnei Brak shooting as Israel enters 'new wave of terror'

Even if your text is correct and some settlers are getting out of hand, it has to be understood in context of increased attacks by Palestinians from "West Bank" over the last two years or so. And at least they are not shooting at random civilians in mosques, like your Palestinians are doing.

Dozens of such stories abound, but of course they're useless in trying to educate your Ilk.

And you are ignoring numerous stories of Palestinian attacks. At least I am providing links to mine.

What a laugh!

What you should be laughing at instead is bilby's ridiculous notion that DSA radicals like Summer Lee are "moderates".

 

[bilby]

What you should be laughing at instead is bilby's ridiculous notion that DSA radicals like Summer Lee are "moderates".

Given that I neither know nor care who the fuck Summer Lee is, it's really not my notion at all, just your projection.

It's a fact that the radical left barely exists, and has zero power, in today's USA.

Your obsession with individual people who you identify as 'radical left' is your own problem. I really don't give crap the first about any of them, as a genuinely left wing non-American.

 

[Derec]

I'll not respond to this derail. If you wish to continue it, report it and have it merged into the original thread.

The original thread? The one from two board softwares ago that is only accessible through the archives?
But I am fine dropping it. It was Summer Lee who brought it up 10 years after the fact. Blame her I guess.