Tigers!
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But would it be a real, mostly atheist forum if it were truly friendly and inviting?
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Dear New Missionary, Proselytizer, Debater, Preacher at the IIDB
- Thread starter Rhea
- Start date
jacques levague
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As a cultural Anthro (now retired) I came to know many traditionally oriented indigenous peoples who have had their epistemological systems challenged by (mostly) evangelical Christian proselytizers. But sometimes they did not completely destroy traditional beliefs. In the American southwest, local shamanistic animism endured but was amended to include Jesus - as a shaman.
But just about all groups I worked with had a problem understanding Original Sin. They understood God's message as:
1. I'm an all-powerful and loving God and I'm sorry to tell you that You're born sinful - but don't worry
2. I'll cause a virgin to have my son, then I'll torture him to death by crucifying him, and then
3. I'll resurrect him, and then
4. All will be fine.
...and for most local punters, you can't get from the first point to the last without very strong peyote and no small measure of white devil crazy talk.
Jacques Levague
But just about all groups I worked with had a problem understanding Original Sin. They understood God's message as:
1. I'm an all-powerful and loving God and I'm sorry to tell you that You're born sinful - but don't worry
2. I'll cause a virgin to have my son, then I'll torture him to death by crucifying him, and then
3. I'll resurrect him, and then
4. All will be fine.
...and for most local punters, you can't get from the first point to the last without very strong peyote and no small measure of white devil crazy talk.
Jacques Levague
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
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- In addition to hedonism, I am also an extremist- extremely against bullshit.
Has there ever been a time when someone attempting to proselytize us has been friendly? By definition it isn't friendly to proselytize. It's friendly to mind your own business.
jacques levague
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If you are a person of faith then you never had, or you have abandoned, an ability to distinguish things that are real from things that are not real. Reality is not what you hope it is.
Sure, I have hope - that tomorrow might bring happiness, good health, prosperity, world peace, practical human cloning technology, and the ability to keep a head alive indefinably in a lab. Hope is just a conditioned response, anticipation that something less awful than right now might be around the corner because sometimes it is. Hoped-for things occasionally occur.
I have hope but no faith. Faith - ‘hope’ when there’s really no hope - I have none of that. All in all, it’s probably better not to live than to live and then die …philosophically speaking. Of course, tell that to the fornicating masses, and you’ll get back bulk to the contrary.
Jacques Levague
Sure, I have hope - that tomorrow might bring happiness, good health, prosperity, world peace, practical human cloning technology, and the ability to keep a head alive indefinably in a lab. Hope is just a conditioned response, anticipation that something less awful than right now might be around the corner because sometimes it is. Hoped-for things occasionally occur.
I have hope but no faith. Faith - ‘hope’ when there’s really no hope - I have none of that. All in all, it’s probably better not to live than to live and then die …philosophically speaking. Of course, tell that to the fornicating masses, and you’ll get back bulk to the contrary.
Jacques Levague
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Tigers!
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- Bible believing revelational redemptionist (Baptist)
My reading of Rhea's comments was that that portion referring to welcoming thoughts was directed at other memebers, not the new chums.
Tigers was just saying that atheist forums can't be friendly and inviting to a theist.
He's not wrong.
It's pretty weird for people to associate on the basis of irreligion. Atheist forums only exist because atheists live in societies where religious people are actively doing stupid, aggravating shit. So any theist who joins such forums is going to get some animosity.
If you
- are a preacher
- an apologist
- profess adherence to a religion or holy book
Hell, even if a theist pretends to be an atheist and makes no contributions to discussions involving religion, they're still see people saying mean things about their church or theists in general.
Um, welcome to the forum, future TOU-violators?
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
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- In addition to hedonism, I am also an extremist- extremely against bullshit.
Preachers and apologists are no different than proselytizers, and I definitely wouldn't blame people for thinking they don't have great intentions coming here, given the history of vile religious trolls who do come here. Anyway, I don't doubt that people can be overly rude, but in my case I'm rude when a religious person 1. Claims we're immoral because we're atheists, 2. Claims evolution is immoral, etc etc, which happens almost every time another religious fundamentalist comes on here. Secondly, you already described why atheist/secular forums exist, and the reason is pretty reasonable given what you described happens. Not weird. But thirdly, I have definitely met my fair share of secular people who are assholes as well, so I don't personally take to the notion that atheists are automatically better than religious people. I think that's dumb.
Jarhyn
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I disagree.
I'm very close to being a theist myself, and cut some hairs very finely there. Lots of people here DO believe in Gods, or at least don't believe there aren't and so don't believe either way. This latter state describes me.
I do strongly hope there is a god, but I realize that the only way that any human could possibly be anything less than a disappointment would be to not believe this in a way, and act as if there is none, and that this world is precious and all we have.
It's my contention that IF there is a god then that God prefers atheists, and the world where we figure things out for ourselves, and strong arguments as to why I feel these positions are correct, not the least of which being direct study of many different simulated universes and forming generalized simulation theory.
I think this is a fairly widespread belief about God, especially among atheists, and not one incompatible with being kind and welcoming to theists.
The issue is that it is incompatible and unwelcoming to any theist who makes claims that run counter to observation or research on generalized simulation theory, and that's most of them: actual knowledge does not leave most theism intact.