Cop Indicted For Murder

[Derec]

Tensing asked "Be straight up with me, are you suspended?"
To which Dubose answered, "No."

Seems like a pretty straight answer to me.

Well he wasn't giving a straight answer before then, which prompted the cop to use "be straight up with me" because he sensed evasiveness. And it is notable that your "straight answer" was a straight-up lie because his license was indeed suspended, and not only for a time, but indefinitely. And he was likely looking at maximum sentence too, given that he'd done it before, among other things.

When the supervisor informs the passenger that he does not need to step out of the vehicle nor identify himself since he is not the driver of the car. No probable cause there.

SCOTUS has pretty much declared cops can tell both driver and passenger to exit. Not sure about IDs though.
Not relevant here though, as DuBose had no passengers.

And yet in all of that he was never accused of -- let alone convicted for -- bribery.

But all his history is evidence of a very impulsive personality - somebody I'd expect to try to finagle himself out of a 6 month stay at the graybar hotel by any means possible.

- The "more than 12 children" you claim you got from his oldest son is a thirdhand citation from a badly-written tabloid paper that doesn't even carry the quote in the original; all other sources say he has 13 children and 4 grandchildren.

Well 13 is more than 12, isn't it?

- He has never been convicted for joyriding or auto theft

Even if he wasn't convicted of it (for example if the person he stole it from decided not to press charges;he seems to have been given way too many chances where some tough love would have served him better) doesn't mean he didn't do it.

- He has never been convicted -- or even charged -- for "drug trafficking." He had a misdemeanor conviction for selling marijuana.

Might be semantics, but the court page says "Trafficking in marihuana". And multiple articles spoke of him spending time in state prison (rather than county jail) for it.

Most significantly: the man was arrested over 60 times in fifteen years and and not ONCE in any of those arrests did he make any attempt to run from the police. I'm willing to grant, though, that this is probably the first time in any of those arrests that an officer tried to open his door and force him out of the car.

He also said "take your seat belt off". And DuBose did not have to turn on the engine and put the car in gear.

So you're splitting hairs, then. It was justified, it just wasn't "murder."

Not splitting hairs. More like splitting a very large log. Murder is not the same as unjustified homicide, it is a small subset of it. And even justified homicides do not necessarily mean the kid deserved it.

Really? Because I cannot find a SINGLE article that corroborates any of those claims. I had to search around through several dozen of them before I found one that even confirmed Dubose' license was actually suspended.

Well at least you found that.

There's no corroboration for the "12 to 20 children" claim either, and no one claims it's an "estimate", as if nobody really knows for sure.

Could be that the articles got cleaned up in recent days. But those that I read when the shooting first happened definitely spoke of possibly 20 children and at least 12.

Also no mention of multiple "baby mammas," or any other racial stereotypes you pulled directly out of your ass and tried to pass off as fact.

His fiancee is mother to only three of them. Unless baby mama #2 has at least 9 kids from him there has to be at least 3.

Even less has been written about Dubose's children or his "baby mammas" but you went out of your way to draw attention to them.

That was a major focus of early reporting of the case. Before PC editors got hold of it no doubt.

OTOH, Zipperhead has already shed some light on Tensing's service history and past misdeeds. I suppose those articles just happened to have escaped your attention.

A 'misdeed' where he asked a passenger to provide ID?

Naturally!

I don't know what the procedure is there anyway.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Well he wasn't giving a straight answer before then

lol

When the supervisor informs the passenger that he does not need to step out of the vehicle nor identify himself since he is not the driver of the car. No probable cause there.

SCOTUS has pretty much declared cops can tell both driver and passenger to exit.

Tensing's supervisor seems to disagree.

And yet in all of that he was never accused of -- let alone convicted for -- bribery.

But all his history is evidence of a very impulsive personality

No it doesn't. It's evidence of a guy with a shitty driving record. And I'll again remind you that with over 60 arrests there is not a SINGLE incident of him making any attempt to evade the police.

If it demonstrates anything at all, it's that he was CARELESS: A sloppy driver who doesn't pay attention to what he's doing.

Well 13 is more than 12, isn't it?

lol

- He has never been convicted for joyriding or auto theft

Even if he wasn't convicted of it (for example if the person he stole it from decided not to press charges;he seems to have been given way too many chances where some tough love would have served him better) doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Doesn't mean he DID either. You have a source for your "joyriding" claim, by the way?

- He has never been convicted -- or even charged -- for "drug trafficking." He had a misdemeanor conviction for selling marijuana.

Might be semantics

Might be irrelevant, but par for the course with you.

He also said "take your seat belt off". And DuBose did not have to turn on the engine and put the car in gear.

He didn't have to because the engine was already on and the car was possibly ALREADY IN gear.

Shitty driving record, remember? A good/competent driver would put the car in park when pulled over. A guy who gets his license suspended every other month, not so much.

There's no corroboration for the "12 to 20 children" claim either, and no one claims it's an "estimate", as if nobody really knows for sure.

Could be that the articles got cleaned up in recent days.

Could be you pulled it out of your ass and assumed nobody would call you on it because everybody knows black people are frisky lil devils.

His fiancee is mother to only three of them. Unless baby mama #2 has at least 9 kids from him there has to be at least 3.

Which is another thing that is not mentioned in any of these articles, for which you have no source whatsoever, and is completely irrelevant to what actually happened in this case.

Even less has been written about Dubose's children or his "baby mammas" but you went out of your way to draw attention to them.

That was a major focus of early reporting of the case.

lol

 

[Derec]

Tensing's supervisor seems to disagree.

About exiting the vehicle or showing ID?

No it doesn't. It's evidence of a guy with a shitty driving record.

And continuing to drive after license is suspended. And shitty rent paying record. And a record of selling illegal drugs.

And I'll again remind you that with over 60 arrests there is not a SINGLE incident of him making any attempt to evade the police.

That we know of.

A sloppy driver who doesn't pay attention to what he's doing.

Possible. What's certain is that he had no business driving a car.

Doesn't mean he DID either. You have a source for your "joyriding" claim, by the way?

Numerous articles. For example this one mentions joyriding. I think it might be the first article I read about the incident.
It also mentions the estimates as to his children:

He was also a father – many times over. One relative estimated that he had 13 children. Another said the tally was closer to 20. Johnson said she lost count. Dubose was never married, she said.

Might be irrelevant, but par for the course with you.

It's irrelevant what you call it. The court called it "trafficking". The important bit is he spent time in a state prison for it.

He didn't have to because the engine was already on and the car was possibly ALREADY IN gear.

How do you know that? And do you propose he was keeping his foot on the brake the entire time of the traffic stop rather than put it in park? Or that the officer would not tell him to turn the engine off first thing?

Shitty driving record, remember? A good/competent driver would put the car in park when pulled over. A guy who gets his license suspended every other month, not so much.

You don't need to be a competent driver to know it's more comfortable to put a car in park if stopped for an extended time.

Could be you pulled it out of your ass and assumed nobody would call you on it because everybody knows black people are frisky lil devils.

Again:

He was also a father – many times over. One relative estimated that he had 13 children. Another said the tally was closer to 20. Johnson said she lost count. Dubose was never married, she said.

Also, I know many black people. Most don't have nearly that many children, many none at all. This constant playing of the race card is getting tiresome.

 

[laughing dog]

The number of children Mr Dubose may have fathered has no bearing on this case. That his relatives seemed ill-informed on the exact number of children has no bearing on this case.

I do agree that the constant playing of the race card is tiresome which is why I find Derec's response more than just ironic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What we are seeing is the cop was able to shoot fast enough to avoid being seriously harmed. There's no obligation to let the other guy seriously hurt you before you defend yourself.

Logic fail: the police office was in no danger of getting hurt since the car was going away from him. Is it really that hard to stop pulling bullshit excuses out of your ass?

Your argument has no connection to reality. There was no threat of the car hitting him in the first place, the threat was dragging.

- - - Updated - - -

I viewed the original at 30:1, the critical frames themselves are motion-blurred, stabilization can't help that.

This stabilization does help show that the guy started his car and the cop reached in to stop that. The guy was struggling with the cop's left hand. We can't see his foot but if he stomped on the gas at that point the threat exists--and the cop's reactions are consistent with that.

You keep claiming you watched the video carefully but seem to be unable to describe it.

The guy stops struggling with the cop's left hand as soon as the cop produces a gun. His hand is then in the air, like he's trying to put it between the gun and his head. It's not until the gun is fired that the gas gets stomped on, and that's when Tensing either falls down or throws himself backwards.

Just what exactly is the connection that’s dragging Tensing, other than his choice to grip the man’s shirt and/or seatbelt, run alongside the car shouting “stop!” and fire his weapon?

Being farther down the street than at the start doesn’t make him dragged. It just means he walked and/or ran a bit. Which he could no longer do after he shot the man and the car suddenly accelerated at that point. He looks a bit tousled to another officer because he fell or threw himself down onto the street.

All the danger Tensing was in was created by himself.

Maybe he realized his mistake and surrendered at the last instant. It takes at least a second to change actions, though--human reaction time isn't instant.

 

[laughing dog]

Logic fail: the police office was in no danger of getting hurt since the car was going away from him. Is it really that hard to stop pulling bullshit excuses out of your ass?

Your argument has no connection to reality. There was no threat of the car hitting him in the first place, the threat was dragging.

There was no threat of dragging him since he was free of the car. Apparently it is that hard to stop pulling bullshit excuses out of your ass.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why should the history of the deceased be off limits?

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

You're playing the race card here.

We don't give a hoot about what color the guy was. He was a loser. The cop made a big boo-boo in reaching for the keys, the guy made an even bigger one in trying to stop him and to run.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He also said "take your seat belt off". And DuBose did not have to turn on the engine and put the car in gear.

He didn't have to because the engine was already on and the car was possibly ALREADY IN gear.

Shitty driving record, remember? A good/competent driver would put the car in park when pulled over. A guy who gets his license suspended every other month, not so much.

If the engine was running and the car in gear the cop would have made an issue out of it. He didn't--thus showing it wasn't running. Furthermore, we see what appears to be him starting the car just before it starts moving.

We have a guy who panicked when he realized how much time he was going to be spending in jail.

 

[laughing dog]

You're playing the race card here.

Irony, thy name is Loren Pechtel.

We don't give a hoot about what color the guy was. He was a loser. The cop made a big boo-boo in reaching for the keys, the guy made an even bigger one in trying to stop him and to run.

You may be fooling yourself, but you aren't fooling anyone else.

 

[marc]

Yes, Derec went out of his way to provide us with helpful insights into the personality of Christopher Roupe too. Everything the kid every did wrong; catcalling the girls in the locker room, disparaging arabs while playing call of duty, stealing doughnuts from the school cafeteria. Just to establish the "overall personality" of the victim is important, especially if you're allowed to make shit up.

Strange how the personal history of the victim is of incredible relevance, (eg: unsubstantiated allegations of Travon having burglary tools) but the history of the shooter isn't (Zimmerman's documented history of assault)

 

[atrib]

If he used a gin bottle he likely used gin to make this concoction. If it is air freshener at all and he didn't lie.

Maybe you should try harder to get the facts straight in your attempts at drive-by smears of the victims.

Well let's stick to the 13-20 children, evictions, driving without license, stealing cars for fun (joyriding) and drug trafficking then...

How is any of this relevant? Would the bullet have magically stopped 2 inches from his head had Dubose lived his life as a saint? You are bringing up Dubose's colorful history in an attempt to divert attention from the real problem, which is that a police officer shot and killed an unarmed man following a traffic stop. The unarmed man did not pose a threat to the officer or to others around him.

As colorful as Dubose's personal life may have been, it pales in comparison to Officer Tensing's history, who killed an unarmed man by shooting him in the head at close range. Officer Tensing is a killer, and you won't talk about that. Why are you not digging up dirt on Officer Tensing? Why are you so unwilling to admit that some cops can be racists and commit criminal acts in the line of duty?

 

[Derec]

How is any of this relevant? Would the bullet have magically stopped 2 inches from his head had Dubose lived his life as a saint? You are bringing up Dubose's colorful history in an attempt to divert attention from the real problem, which is that a police officer shot and killed an unarmed man following a traffic stop.

Had DuBose been more responsible he would not have been driving on a suspended driver's license. Nor would he have turned the engine on and attempted to drive away while the police officer's arm was inside the car.

The unarmed man did not pose a threat to the officer or to others around him.

Just by being out driving he posed a danger to everybody around him actually.

As colorful as Dubose's personal life may have been, it pales in comparison to Officer Tensing's history, who killed an unarmed man by shooting him in the head at close range. Officer Tensing is a killer, and you won't talk about that. Why are you not digging up dirt on Officer Tensing? Why are you so unwilling to admit that some cops can be racists and commit criminal acts in the line of duty?

I did say both men made mistakes that day. Also, while some cops can be racist I have seen nothing that would indicate that Tensing shot DuBose due to racial animosity.

 

[ksen]

 

[Derec]

At least this Rigel (whoever he is) isn't using photos of DuBose when he was 14 like they did with certain someone, although he does look a lot younger than in the mugshot (which of his numerous arrests did it come from?)

Strange how the personal history of the victim is of incredible relevance, (eg: unsubstantiated allegations of Travon having burglary tools) but the history of the shooter isn't (Zimmerman's documented history of assault)

1. At least I have the decency to get his name correct - it's Trayvon, not Travon.
2. He was suspended from school when they found jewelry that didn't belong to him and a burglary tool in his backpack. It was not "unsubstantiated".
3. Z's history was widely reported and discussed. The original thread, inaccurately named Dying for Skittles, was 137 pages long and the incident spawned many other threads, so that a subsection had to be created for them all. Many of these threads involved Z's run-ins with the law after his acquittal.

 

[Derec]

Yes, Derec went out of his way to provide us with helpful insights into the personality of Christopher Roupe too.

Since everybody agrees that he is guilty there is no need for that. Otoh, some people are saying DuBose did nothing wrong (including DuBose himself at one point although he knew his license was indefinitely suspended).

 

[ksen]

Otoh, some people are saying DuBose did nothing wrong (including DuBose himself at one point although he knew his license was indefinitely suspended).

Actually people are saying that DuBose did nothing worth being shot in the face at point blank range.

I don't know anyone that says the initial traffic stop was bad.

 

[RavenSky]

It takes at least a second to change actions, though--human reaction time isn't instant.

A point you consistently refuse to acknowledge EXCEPT for cops shooting civilians. For instance, how quickly was Tamir Rice supposed to react when police roared up on him, shouting and shooting within 2 seconds?

 

[RavenSky]

At least this Rigel (whoever he is) isn't using photos of DuBose when he was 14 like they did with certain someone, although he does look a lot younger than in the mugshot (which of his numerous arrests did it come from?)

Strange how the personal history of the victim is of incredible relevance, (eg: unsubstantiated allegations of Travon having burglary tools) but the history of the shooter isn't (Zimmerman's documented history of assault)

1. At least I have the decency to get his name correct - it's Trayvon, not Travon.

no, actually Derec, you have no such decency. Marc may have misspelled Trayvon's name, but you have a very long history of purposely mocking the names of black shooting victims - including Trayvon's. Have you forgotten that you purposely spelled a black female victim's name backwards in the subject header? I haven't.

2. He was suspended from school when they found jewelry that didn't belong to him and a burglary tool in his backpack. It was not "unsubstantiated".

At the risk of derailing the thread, this is false. He had no "burglary tool" but rather a common woodworking tool that people like you mischaracterized as a "burglary tool" in order to defame Trayvon Martin.

3. Z's history was widely reported and discussed. The original thread, inaccurately named Dying for Skittles, was 137 pages long and the incident spawned many other threads, so that a subsection had to be created for them all. Many of these threads involved Z's run-ins with the law after his acquittal.

with you minimizing and denying Zimmerman's thug behavior every step of the way.

/derail

 

[Toni]

At least this Rigel (whoever he is) isn't using photos of DuBose when he was 14 like they did with certain someone, although he does look a lot younger than in the mugshot (which of his numerous arrests did it come from?)

1. At least I have the decency to get his name correct - it's Trayvon, not Travon.

no, actually Derec, you have no such decency. Marc may have misspelled Trayvon's name, but you have a very long history of purposely mocking the names of black shooting victims - including Trayvon's. Have you forgotten that you purposely spelled a black female victim's name backwards in the subject header? I haven't.

2. He was suspended from school when they found jewelry that didn't belong to him and a burglary tool in his backpack. It was not "unsubstantiated".

At the risk of derailing the thread, this is false. He had no "burglary tool" but rather a common woodworking tool that people like you mischaracterized as a "burglary tool" in order to defame Trayvon Martin.

3. Z's history was widely reported and discussed. The original thread, inaccurately named Dying for Skittles, was 137 pages long and the incident spawned many other threads, so that a subsection had to be created for them all. Many of these threads involved Z's run-ins with the law after his acquittal.

with you minimizing and denying Zimmerman's thug behavior every step of the way.

/derail

Correction: Martin was NOT suspended for the jewelry and screwdriver. He was suspended for other very minor incidents but never punished in any way for possession of jewelry and the screwdriver.

 

[ksen]

/derail

doubtful