Cop Indicted For Murder

[laughing dog]

What we are seeing is the cop was able to shoot fast enough to avoid being seriously harmed. There's no obligation to let the other guy seriously hurt you before you defend yourself.

Logic fail: the police office was in no danger of getting hurt since the car was going away from him. Is it really that hard to stop pulling bullshit excuses out of your ass?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Did DuBose ever give him his name?

Tensing never ASKED.

He does, actually, which the video directly above this demonstrates.

No, he does not, according to SCOTUS.

Yes he does, according to TENSING'S SUPERVISOR.

You love to throw words like "racist" around indiscriminately, don't you?

I struggle to understand what else other than your preconceptions about who and what Dubose was that would lead you to the conclusion that handing the cop a bottle of gin was an attempt at bribery.

Failing to consent to an officer attempting to illegally enter your vehicle is not escalation. It was Dubose exercising his legal right to privacy.

First you'd have to establish that officer attempting to open the door was illegal.

Entering another person's vehicle without permission or probable cause. Cops have been fired for this, even in Chicago.

Saying that the officer thought it was a real gun (or that they thought he was an adult) does not mean the kid deserved to die.

Then why did you bring it up?

What do I have you for?

Have you seen me digging into Tensing's background in this thread? Or DuBose's for that matter? That was information YOU volunteered because you thought it was relevant.

Why is Tensing's background not relevant to you?

When are we getting one on TENSING?

I asked first.

I asked second.

- - - Updated - - -

What we are seeing is the cop was able to shoot fast enough to avoid being seriously harmed.

Bullshit: he would not have been harmed if he HADN'T shot Dubose in the head.

 

[abaddon]

I viewed the original at 30:1, the critical frames themselves are motion-blurred, stabilization can't help that.

This stabilization does help show that the guy started his car and the cop reached in to stop that. The guy was struggling with the cop's left hand. We can't see his foot but if he stomped on the gas at that point the threat exists--and the cop's reactions are consistent with that.

You keep claiming you watched the video carefully but seem to be unable to describe it.

The guy stops struggling with the cop's left hand as soon as the cop produces a gun. His hand is then in the air, like he's trying to put it between the gun and his head. It's not until the gun is fired that the gas gets stomped on, and that's when Tensing either falls down or throws himself backwards.

Just what exactly is the connection that’s dragging Tensing, other than his choice to grip the man’s shirt and/or seatbelt, run alongside the car shouting “stop!” and fire his weapon?

Being farther down the street than at the start doesn’t make him dragged. It just means he walked and/or ran a bit. Which he could no longer do after he shot the man and the car suddenly accelerated at that point. He looks a bit tousled to another officer because he fell or threw himself down onto the street.

All the danger Tensing was in was created by himself.

 

[RavenSky]

The latter is a figment of racist little imagination.

Have you forgotten already...?

Derec, you know as well as I do that the cop asked him what the bottle on the floor of the car was. THAT is why the driver handed it to him. AND the driver stated that it was not alcohol, but rather that it was air freshener.

So, your claim that DuBose tried to bribe the cop with gin is a flagrant falsehood, and you know it.

 

[Derec]

AND the driver stated that it was not alcohol, but rather that it was air freshener.

Well that's still alcohol if he made it out of the gin.

So, your claim that DuBose tried to bribe the cop with gin is a flagrant falsehood, and you know it.

No, I did not know it.

 

[RavenSky]

Well that's still alcohol if he made it out of the gin.

Not drinkable alcohol

So, your claim that DuBose tried to bribe the cop with gin is a flagrant falsehood, and you know it.

No, I did not know it.

You mean you didn't bother to watch the video or read anything about this case (including other people's posts in this thread) before you jumped to your conclusion that the white cop was 100% in the right, and the black driver was 100% in the wrong?

I'm so not shocked.

 

[laughing dog]

Well that's still alcohol if he made it out of the gin.

You think the officer was asking about the ingredients? I thought you were better than that.

No, I did not know it.

Maybe you should try harder to get the facts straight in your attempts at drive-by smears of the victims.

 

[Derec]

Tensing never ASKED.

Well he could not get a straight answer to the questions he asked, like if his licence was suspended.

Yes he does, according to TENSING'S SUPERVISOR.

Citation needed. Also, since when does "TENSING'S SUPERVISOR" trump SCOTUS?

I struggle to understand what else other than your preconceptions about who and what Dubose was that would lead you to the conclusion that handing the cop a bottle of gin was an attempt at bribery.

Not his skin color but rather a long history of irresponsible behavior including siring 13-20 children, multiple evictions as well as many arrests/convictions for things including joyriding (i.e. stealing cars for fun) and drug trafficking. His was also accused, but not convicted of, assault.

Entering another person's vehicle without permission or probable cause. Cops have been fired for this, even in Chicago.

Citation needed.

Then why did you bring it up?

Because saying that the kid did not deserve it doesn't mean it was murder. It could have been a legitimate justified shooting where the cops really thought their life was in danger and the kid would still not have deserved it. Or it could be something like manslaughter, which is distinct from murder. You seem to think in crude binaries - either it was murder or the dead person deserved it. There is much room between those two poles.

Have you seen me digging into Tensing's background in this thread? Or DuBose's for that matter? That was information YOU volunteered because you thought it was relevant.

I wasn't digging. It was information present in many of the articles about this shooting from the beginning.

Why is Tensing's background not relevant to you?

It's relevant, but other than his service history there hasn't been much written about it.

I asked second.

Of course, it is unclear if he was even tested.

 

[Derec]

Not drinkable alcohol

According to your recipe:
The recipe:

1 oz gin, vodka, or rubbing alcohol
6 oz filtered water
20 – 40 drops of essential oil, a few suggested oils are: peppermint, jasmine, citrus oils
If he used gin or vodka rather than isopropanol it should still be drinkable, right?

 

[Derec]

You think the officer was asking about the ingredients? I thought you were better than that.

If he used a gin bottle he likely used gin to make this concoction. If it is air freshener at all and he didn't lie.

Maybe you should try harder to get the facts straight in your attempts at drive-by smears of the victims.

Well let's stick to the 13-20 children, evictions, driving without license, stealing cars for fun (joyriding) and drug trafficking then...

 

[laughing dog]

If he used a gin bottle he likely used gin to make this concoction. If it is air freshener at all and he didn't lie.

I already I admitted I was wrong. No need to rub it in.

Well let's stick to the 13-20 children, evictions, driving without license, stealing cars for fun (joyriding) and drug trafficking then...

Did the operation that removed your sense of shame hurt?

 

[Derec]

Did the operation that removed your sense of shame hurt?

Why should the history of the deceased be off limits?

 

[laughing dog]

Did the operation that removed your sense of shame hurt?

Why should the history of the deceased be off limits?

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Well he could not get a straight answer to the questions he asked, like if his licence was suspended.

Tensing asked "Be straight up with me, are you suspended?"
To which Dubose answered, "No."

Seems like a pretty straight answer to me.

Citation needed. Also, since when does "TENSING'S SUPERVISOR" trump SCOTUS?

When the supervisor informs the passenger that he does not need to step out of the vehicle nor identify himself since he is not the driver of the car. No probable cause there.

Not his skin color but rather a long history of irresponsible behavior including siring 13-20 children, multiple evictions as well as many arrests/convictions for things including joyriding (i.e. stealing cars for fun) and drug trafficking. His was also accused, but not convicted of, assault.

And yet in all of that he was never accused of -- let alone convicted for -- bribery.

More to the point: None of the news outlets corroborate any of your claims:
- The "more than 12 children" you claim you got from his oldest son is a thirdhand citation from a badly-written tabloid paper that doesn't even carry the quote in the original; all other sources say he has 13 children and 4 grandchildren.
- He has never been convicted for joyriding or auto theft
- He has never been convicted -- or even charged -- for "drug trafficking." He had a misdemeanor conviction for selling marijuana.
- He was accused but never charged with assault

Most significantly: the man was arrested over 60 times in fifteen years and and not ONCE in any of those arrests did he make any attempt to run from the police. I'm willing to grant, though, that this is probably the first time in any of those arrests that an officer tried to open his door and force him out of the car.

Then why did you bring it up?

Because saying that the kid did not deserve it doesn't mean it was murder. It could have been a legitimate justified shooting

So you're splitting hairs, then. It was justified, it just wasn't "murder."

I wasn't digging. It was information present in many of the articles about this shooting from the beginning.

Really? Because I cannot find a SINGLE article that corroborates your claims. I had to search around through several dozen of them before I found one that even confirmed Dubose' license was actually suspended. There's no corroboration for the "12 to 20 children" claim either, and no one claims it's an "estimate", as if nobody really knows for sure. Also no mention of multiple "baby mammas," or any other racial stereotypes you pulled directly out of your ass and tried to pass off as fact.

Why is Tensing's background not relevant to you?

It's relevant, but other than his service history there hasn't been much written about it.

Even less has been written about Dubose's children or his "baby mammas" but you went out of your way to draw attention to them.

OTOH, Zipperhead has already shed some light on Tensing's service history and past misdeeds. I suppose those articles just happened to have escaped your attention.

I asked second.

Of course, it is unclear if he was even tested.

Naturally!

 

[Derec]

Why should the history of the deceased be off limits?

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

I think it goes to his overall personality. He seems to have been an impulsive, unconcerned with consequences type of guy, and that in multiple areas of his life. That has nothing whatsoever to do with his race by the way.
And I am not "kneejerk apologist" for the police either. I have already said that the shooting was probably not justified. But I do not think it was murder as I do not see how Tensing "purposed" to kill DuBose.
I think both men made mistakes during the traffic stop. Tensing reacted poorly, but he reacted to what DuBose was doing. He was also fully aware of the danger that traffic stops can pose to the cops. I linked to the Memphis shooting (happened today) above. There was also a police officer, Sonny Kim, killed in Cincinnati in the line of duty about a month before this shooting. It's a dangerous job and sometimes police officers do not react in the best way - being too hesitant can cost them their life, being too ready to shoot can lead to shootings like this, Tamir Rice etc.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

I think it goes to his overall personality.

And the reason you are unconcerned with the "overall personality" of the shooter is....?

 

[laughing dog]

I think it goes to his overall personality. He seems to have been an impulsive, unconcerned with consequences type of guy, and that in multiple areas of his life. That has nothing whatsoever to do with his race by the way.

Or with the facts of the case or the issues in the case.
The facts in the case to date are not favorable to the police officer at all. For his sake, I hope relevant facts in his favor come out. You have presented none.

And I am not "kneejerk apologist" for the police either. I have already said that the shooting was probably not justified. But I do not think it was murder as I do not see how Tensing "purposed" to kill DuBose.
I think both men made mistakes during the traffic stop. Tensing reacted poorly, but he reacted to what DuBose was doing. He was also fully aware of the danger that traffic stops can pose to the cops. I linked to the Memphis shooting (happened today) above. There was also a police officer, Sonny Kim, killed in Cincinnati in the line of duty about a month before this shooting. It's a dangerous job and sometimes police officers do not react in the best way - being too hesitant can cost them their life, being too ready to shoot can lead to shootings like this, Tamir Rice etc.

This response and your posts continue to look like kneejerk apologia for the police whenever there are black victims.

 

[fast]

Why should the history of the deceased be off limits?

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

Is there a name for this? If the fact the guy is black is purely incidental, then if it's true he smeared a black man, it's not therefore true he felt the need to smear a black man. It could be that he merely felt the need to smear a man while the guy just so happened to be black. It shouldn't make someone look racist if race is incidental.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there a name for this? If the fact the guy is black is purely incidental, then if it's true he smeared a black man, it's not therefore true he felt the need to smear a black man. It could be that he merely felt the need to smear a man while the guy just so happened to be black. It shouldn't make someone look racist if race is incidental.

True. But given the demonstrated posting history of this particular poster, it is a dubious assumption that race is "incidental".

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Flinging out factoids about the victim without showing their relevance to the issue is smearing the victim. For example, the number of children or his evictions have nothing to do with the traffic stop, the behavior of the officer or Mr. Dubose's behavior during the traffic stop. On the otherhand, if Mr. Dubose had a history of assaulting police, that would be relevant.

One would think that the actual facts should be sufficient to make one's case. Why do you feel the need to smear black victims of police action? Do you realize that such smearing makes you look more like a racist and/or a kneejerk apologist for the police than an intelligent discussant?

Is there a name for this? If the fact the guy is black is purely incidental, then if it's true he smeared a black man, it's not therefore true he felt the need to smear a black man. It could be that he merely felt the need to smear a man while the guy just so happened to be black. It shouldn't make someone look racist if race is incidental.

Yes, Derec went out of his way to provide us with helpful insights into the personality of Christopher Roupe too. Everything the kid every did wrong; catcalling the girls in the locker room, disparaging arabs while playing call of duty, stealing doughnuts from the school cafeteria. Just to establish the "overall personality" of the victim is important, especially if you're allowed to make shit up.