Charlottesville: video evidence that the alt-right attacked first

[skepticalbip]

I'm also not a NAZI so, not being a NAZI, I think the first amendment is important to understand and support. The fucking neo-nazis, kkk, etc. are scum but have the right to speak and demonstrate (think goodness the ACLU still support this right). It is only those with opinions that are extremely unpopular that need this constitutional protection - popular speech doesn't need protecting.

The neo-nazi scum were exercising their right to speak (with a permit), not destroying property or attacking others. Those who disagree with the first amendment protection (in Germany they were called brown shirts) came from out of state to forcefully deny the scum their American liberties.

Both sides were scum but, oddly, the fucking klansmen were the ones within the law until they were attacked by the brown shirts.

You can't use the both sides are exactly as bad argument when one side includes Nazis, but thank you for publicly defending Nazis and letting everyone know what you are.

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Sincerely,
Not a Nazi[/INDENT]

I'm also not a NAZI so, not being a NAZI, I think the first amendment is important to understand and support. The fucking neo-nazis, kkk, etc. are scum but have the right to speak and demonstrate (think goodness the ACLU still support this right). It is only those with opinions that are extremely unpopular that need this constitutional protection - popular speech doesn't need protecting.

The neo-nazi scum were exercising their right to speak (with a permit), not destroying property or attacking others. Those who disagree with the first amendment protection (in Germany they were called brown shirts) came from out of state to forcefully deny the scum their American liberties.

Both sides were scum but, oddly, the fucking klansmen were the ones within the law until they were attacked by the brown shirts.

You can't use the both sides are exactly as bad argument when one side includes Nazis, but thank you for publicly defending Nazis and letting everyone know what you are.

Your reading comprehension is lacking or non-existent.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile.... just barely on the other side of reality:

And people are getting lost in who attacked first. Han Solo attacked first, I don't see anyone tearing down his monument.

 

[Underseer]

No argument. Those who oppose any ideology have the right to ignore those espousing it or to tell them to fuck off. However they do not have the right to beat them with sticks to try to stop them from speaking their minds.

Someone simply espousing their neo-nazi views is an idiot but they have every right to do so. Someone who disagrees has every right to do so but if they form a mob to physically assault someone holding views they disagree with are not only idiots but even greater idiots and more dangerous than those they are attacking.

I wasn't there, so I can't be 100% sure, but from the footage I have seen, and the accounts I have heard, the Nazi assholes were the aggressors in this confrontation. Where you there, or do you have any unbiased sources that show that the Nazi assholes were just defending themselves?

Again, who gives a fuck which side hit first?

 

[KeepTalking]

I wasn't there, so I can't be 100% sure, but from the footage I have seen, and the accounts I have heard, the Nazi assholes were the aggressors in this confrontation. Where you there, or do you have any unbiased sources that show that the Nazi assholes were just defending themselves?

Again, who gives a fuck which side hit first?

Apparently skepticalbip does, so I am just seeing if he has any evidence at all for his take on what happened.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No argument. Those who oppose any ideology have the right to ignore those espousing it or to tell them to fuck off.

But their ideology is incitement. Nazis are a real particularly unique group of people. There is no tolerable side of a Nazi ideology.

However they do not have the right to beat them with sticks to try to stop them from speaking their minds.

Or drive cars through them.

Someone simply espousing their neo-nazi views is an idiot but they have every right to do so.

"Idiot" implies stupid. These people aren't stupid. They are vile.

Someone who disagrees has every right to do so but if they form a mob to physically assault someone holding views they disagree with are not only idiots but even greater idiots and more dangerous than those they are attacking.

Who was marching around with fire?

 

[dismal]

Hmm, you forgot to mention you were not a Nazi.

Best regards,
Also Not a Nazi

So you're not a Nazi, you're just someone who defends Nazis and gets angry at people who oppose Nazis?

That's an awfully fine hair to split.

I can't recall ever defending Nazis.

Sincerely,
Not a dumbshit reactionary asshole like you.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You can't use the both sides are exactly as bad argument when one side includes Nazis, but thank you for publicly defending Nazis and letting everyone know what you are.

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You can't use the both sides are exactly as bad argument when one side includes Nazis, but thank you for publicly defending Nazis and letting everyone know what you are.

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

Nazis are nazis. They are the top of the iceberg of evil. They engineered a plan to commit mass murder in an attempt to wipe away several types of people from the face of the Earth.

Sure, there have been genocides, mass murders, killers, bad groups in the past, but the Nazis have so little redeeming qualities, as so much that they have made Hollywood billions of dollars because they are such an easy enemy to portray.

The people in the marches in Virginia were chanting for the deaths of Jews. To fucking heck with anyone that defends them. They represent a form of hate that can not be tolerated.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You can't use the both sides are exactly as bad argument when one side includes Nazis, but thank you for publicly defending Nazis and letting everyone know what you are.

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There's a difference between defending their right to speak, and defending them. It is a difference that I do not expect many people to understand, or will try to understand, or even want to try to understand, but it is there and it is vital.

Do you have any position on the difference between defending their right to speak and defending them?



When I see Nazis, I see under-achievers. They adore history's fourth biggest mass-murderer. Don't they have any ambition? Don't they want to set their sights higher? Hitler getting all the attention is like when the person who contributed least to a class project gets all the credit from the teacher.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

The worst part of the Nazis wasn't the Nazis in politics. It was the people that supported them.

 

[skepticalbip]

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

If someone is living in East LA rather than 1940s Germany then the Crips are much more of a threat.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There's a difference between defending their right to speak, and defending them.

I think their speech in the march was a call to violence and not protected speech.

It is a difference that I do not expect many people to understand, or will try to understand, or even want to try to understand, but it is there and it is vital.

It must get so lonely so high a top your pedestal.

When I see Nazis, I see under-achievers. They adore history's fourth biggest mass-murderer. Don't they have any ambition? Don't they want to set their sights higher? Hitler getting all the attention is like when the person who contributed least to a class project gets all the credit from the teacher.

They can admire Hitler all they want. When they go out on to the streets, saying they want the Jews to die while carrying torches... we go into indefensible territory. But I understand it may be hard for you to see that... being up so high and all.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

If someone is living in East LA rather than 1940s Germany then the Crips are much more of a threat.

I bet Heather Heyer was glad she wasn't in East LA then.

 

[KeepTalking]

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

If someone is living in East LA rather than 1940s Germany then the Crips are much more of a threat.

You are implying that Nazis do not exist outside of 1940s Germany. They are alive and well today, in the USA. If you live anywhere else in this country other that East LA, the Nazis are most definitely a bigger threat to you than the Crips, especially if you are not white. Really, the Crips aren't that much of a threat to you if you simply live in East LA. Members of rival gangs are going to be the most threatened by the Crips, and that is a very small minority of the population of the USA.

 

[skepticalbip]

There's a difference between defending their right to speak, and defending them. It is a difference that I do not expect many people to understand, or will try to understand, or even want to try to understand, but it is there and it is vital.

Do you have any position on the difference between defending their right to speak and defending them?

This is something that I have long been amazed at. How can any thinking person believe that saying that people have a right to speak means a support for what they are saying. The concept of discourse and reasoned argument has become absent to be replaced with reactionary knee-jerk hatred.

 

[dismal]

When the criminal street gang the Crips are fighting the criminal street gang the Bloods, you can't use the both sides are exactly as bad when one side includes the Crips, but thank you for publicly defending Crips and letting everyone know what you are.

Sincerely,
Not a Nazi

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

But these guys in Virginia aren't the *real* Nazis. They have no death camps and have yet to partition Poland.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

But these guys in Virginia aren't the *real* Nazis. They have no death camps and have yet to partition Poland.

But they're celebrating and idolizing the group which did. That makes them the group you put yourself on the other side from, regardless of any other groups in the area (Mormons not included, of course).

 

[KeepTalking]

And this illustrates exactly the point that everyone is trying to make. You're drawing an equivalence between the Crips and the Nazis. That equivalence is invalid because the Crips are in no way as bad as the Nazis.

But these guys in Virginia aren't the *real* Nazis. They have no death camps and have yet to partition Poland.

Neither did the German Nazis at first, it took them a bit to build up to that. We can't afford to wait and let that happen again. Der Gropenfuhrer and his minions need to be stopped well before they get to that point.

 

[dismal]

But these guys in Virginia aren't the *real* Nazis. They have no death camps and have yet to partition Poland.

But they're celebrating and idolizing the group which did. That makes them the group you put yourself on the other side from, regardless of any other groups in the area (Mormons not included, of course).

Yeah, but my point is that we consider the Nazis pinnacle of modern evil because of specific evil things they actually did. Not because they said things we don't like.

"Celebrating" and "idolizing" are a long way from "doing".